Remember when Zoro fans were begging for Wano to be his own dedicated arc just because Sanji had WCI 
General & Others Why do Sanji fans want Sanji to be like Zoro?
- Thread starter Orojackson Refugee
- Start date
Having a dedicated arc isn't specific to Sanji, it's specific to every single strawhat... except Zoro, who first appeared in chapter 3. Not to mention the many connections both obvious and obscure between Zoro and Wano/Samurai - like his hometown for example? Or weapons of choice? But no, you're right, the idea that Wano'd be Zoro's arc is all about Sanji, thanks for the surface-level take
Many sanji fans just don't really care if zkk happens or not
Imo I'm fine with it, like I don't get why people don't want it to happen or lose sleep over the possibility of it not happening, it's fine either way tbh
Also, sanji is a character that will/should /can gain fame and he's already doing that by doing what luffy and zoro won't do
He saved momo, Tama, chopper, nami usopp and osome
He opened the gates of justice in ennies lobby
Destroyed Enel's arc in skypia etc...
These are his moments, so I don't see where the delusion is when saying sanji is like them in that regard
It's legit a big part of his character
And as far as entertainment goes sanji still got the best writing and development, he doesn't feel like the rest of the strawhats even in arcs where he doesn't get any fight
By your logic zoro is a trash tier character cause without fights he has pretty much nothing
Fights are part of the characters, so your point doesn't make any sense
And it's "sanji fans" that want sanji to develop haki instead of weapons of science
It's the fricking author himself that dedicated a whole chapter to show sanji giving up on tech and science
Imo I'm fine with it, like I don't get why people don't want it to happen or lose sleep over the possibility of it not happening, it's fine either way tbh
Also, sanji is a character that will/should /can gain fame and he's already doing that by doing what luffy and zoro won't do
He saved momo, Tama, chopper, nami usopp and osome
He opened the gates of justice in ennies lobby
Destroyed Enel's arc in skypia etc...
These are his moments, so I don't see where the delusion is when saying sanji is like them in that regard
It's legit a big part of his character
And as far as entertainment goes sanji still got the best writing and development, he doesn't feel like the rest of the strawhats even in arcs where he doesn't get any fight
By your logic zoro is a trash tier character cause without fights he has pretty much nothing
Fights are part of the characters, so your point doesn't make any sense
And it's "sanji fans" that want sanji to develop haki instead of weapons of science
It's the fricking author himself that dedicated a whole chapter to show sanji giving up on tech and science
Many sanji fans just don't really care if zkk happens or not
Imo I'm fine with it, like I don't get why people don't want it to happen or lose sleep over the possibility of it not happening, it's fine either way tbh
Also, sanji is a character that will/should /can gain fame and he's already doing that by doing what luffy and zoro won't do
He saved momo, Tama, chopper, nami usopp and osome
He opened the gates of justice in ennies lobby
Destroyed Enel's arc in skypia etc...
These are his moments, so I don't see where the delusion is when saying sanji is like them in that regard
It's legit a big part of his character
And as far as entertainment goes sanji still got the best writing and development, he doesn't feel like the rest of the strawhats even in arcs where he doesn't get any fight
And it's "sanji fans" that want sanji to develop haki instead of weapons of science
It's the fricking author himself that dedicated a whole chapter to show sanji giving up on tech and science
Imo I'm fine with it, like I don't get why people don't want it to happen or lose sleep over the possibility of it not happening, it's fine either way tbh
Also, sanji is a character that will/should /can gain fame and he's already doing that by doing what luffy and zoro won't do
He saved momo, Tama, chopper, nami usopp and osome
He opened the gates of justice in ennies lobby
Destroyed Enel's arc in skypia etc...
These are his moments, so I don't see where the delusion is when saying sanji is like them in that regard
It's legit a big part of his character
And as far as entertainment goes sanji still got the best writing and development, he doesn't feel like the rest of the strawhats even in arcs where he doesn't get any fight
And it's "sanji fans" that want sanji to develop haki instead of weapons of science
It's the fricking author himself that dedicated a whole chapter to show sanji giving up on tech and science
mr 1 > mr 2
kaku > jabura
king > queen
kaku > jabura
king > queen
Mr. 2 Bon Clay > Mr. 1
Jabura > Kaku (Over 5 years with a carnivorous devil fruit > ridiculous less than 1% of douriki superiority, which did not include their devil fruit in the sum)
Absalom ? Brook's shadow in Ryuuma's corpse
Queen < King
The proof of Zoro fans' disnohesty is that they always conveniently forget to mention that Bentham was Bon Clay as well, and not just Mr. 2, while Daz Bones was just Mr. 1. Not to mention that Mr. 2 Bon Clay clearly won in his fight with Mr. 1.
And they also leave out the fact that Sanji fought Kuroobi, who had the superior bounty, which was the only possible means to somehow compare the power level of Kuroobi with Hatchan's.
As for the text you posted there. The phrase in Japanese is just saying that Zoro's level of strength comes after Luffy, and not that he is necessarily stronger than Sanji. It could be said that Sanji's level of strength comes after Luffy's just as well, without any contradiction, supposing that they are equal.
And I don't believe that text even matters anyway; That's not written in the manga, which is what really counts.
I doubt Oda wrote that himself; I can't imagine Oda directly stating that Zoro has a vice captain-like role, since he never did that in the manga; Zoro is always just classified as a sentouin/combatant.
That seems a lot more like a fan's description of the character.
It's illogical to believe that Oda would go out of his way to explicitly confirm who is the strongest just to ruin their rivalry, which is why he always avoided giving a clear answer when asked about it.
It's for us to compare their feats to judge who is most likely stronger, and so far Sanji's feats have been clearly superior.
I'm listing those things cause you don't see to understand that they are a part of sanji's character, this a debate dude, what else am I supposed to do?
Yeah wci. The arc that set up sanji's development in wano, and that development was about sanji accepting his newfound strength
WCI's plot lines aren't finished yet
As for the arc that told us what to focus on when it comes to sanji, you literally have his introduction arc for that
The first things we see him do is kick ass, and in Zou one of the reasons luffy wanted sanji to return was cause he was worth 1000 man
Idk what to tell you either
Yeah wci. The arc that set up sanji's development in wano, and that development was about sanji accepting his newfound strength
WCI's plot lines aren't finished yet
As for the arc that told us what to focus on when it comes to sanji, you literally have his introduction arc for that
The first things we see him do is kick ass, and in Zou one of the reasons luffy wanted sanji to return was cause he was worth 1000 man
Idk what to tell you either
I'm not saying to ignore anything Sanji's ever done... unless it hasn't got anything to do with the debate we're having. Using smaller achievements that have no real reflection of Sanji's disposition as a character isn't very useful compared to the arc where we got a deep dive into what he considers most important, which was again shown in Wano.
I'm not denying that wci stuff pushed into wano, i was generally referencing anything stemming from wci is all.
And if we use his introductory arc that's cool as well. In fact if we compare it to Zoro's intro and Luffy's, you'll recall Zoro being content with giving his life for his ambition to become WSS, and Luffy being content with giving his life to become PK. They've forfeited their lives for it. On the other hand we have Sanji, who, upon seeing Zoro vs Mihawk told him he's an idiot and it's better to abandon your dream and live. Huge, basic ideas that snowball into becoming different types of characters.
I'm not denying that wci stuff pushed into wano, i was generally referencing anything stemming from wci is all.
And if we use his introductory arc that's cool as well. In fact if we compare it to Zoro's intro and Luffy's, you'll recall Zoro being content with giving his life for his ambition to become WSS, and Luffy being content with giving his life to become PK. They've forfeited their lives for it. On the other hand we have Sanji, who, upon seeing Zoro vs Mihawk told him he's an idiot and it's better to abandon your dream and live. Huge, basic ideas that snowball into becoming different types of characters.
Because when Sanji sticks to his own character (like the chivalry thing and baking a cake in WCI like he would as a cook) people would still shits on him regardless.
Sanji haters are pretty much the walking contradiction. Makes me feel bad for them sometimes, they don't want Sanji to be strong like Zoro or Luffy yet they despise Sanji's character for being "unique" as he is.
Sanji haters are pretty much the walking contradiction. Makes me feel bad for them sometimes, they don't want Sanji to be strong like Zoro or Luffy yet they despise Sanji's character for being "unique" as he is.
You're one of the people who clearly didn't understand why sanji told zoro to give up his dream
Sanji as an 8 year old was ready to die for his dream too
, but later on he gave up on it to protect the baratie, to convince himself to keep protecting zeff and the baratie he started deluding himself into thinking he isn't a passionate guy who wants to live his dream
When seing zoro acting exactly the way he used to act when he still had that spark he got angry cause it reminded him of the fact that he gave up on his dream
Zeff even pointed it out and said that sanji has the same spirit/spear as luffy and zoro, he just chews on it for stupid reasons
Your point was that sanji isn't like zoro and luffy and that he doesn't have the same spirit and will, right? Well tell that to the author who disagrees on this take
Those huge basic ideas are also shared by sanji, in fact they're the most basic part of his character, how you can't understand that is beyond me
Sanji as an 8 year old was ready to die for his dream too
When seing zoro acting exactly the way he used to act when he still had that spark he got angry cause it reminded him of the fact that he gave up on his dream
Zeff even pointed it out and said that sanji has the same spirit/spear as luffy and zoro, he just chews on it for stupid reasons
Your point was that sanji isn't like zoro and luffy and that he doesn't have the same spirit and will, right? Well tell that to the author who disagrees on this take
Those huge basic ideas are also shared by sanji, in fact they're the most basic part of his character, how you can't understand that is beyond me
You're one of the people who clearly didn't understand why sanji told zoro to give up his dream
Sanji as an 8 year old was ready to die for his dream too
, but later on he gave up on it to protect the baratie, to convince himself to keep protecting zeff and the baratie he started deluding himself into thinking he isn't a passionate guy who wants to live his dream
When seing zoro acting exactly the way he used to act when he still had that spark he got angry cause it reminded him of the fact that he gave up on his dream
Zeff even pointed it out and said that sanji has the same spirit/spear as luffy and zoro, he just chews on it for stupid reasons
Your point was that sanji isn't like zoro and luffy and that he doesn't have the same spirit and will, right? Well tell that to the author who disagrees on this take
Sanji as an 8 year old was ready to die for his dream too
When seing zoro acting exactly the way he used to act when he still had that spark he got angry cause it reminded him of the fact that he gave up on his dream
Zeff even pointed it out and said that sanji has the same spirit/spear as luffy and zoro, he just chews on it for stupid reasons
Your point was that sanji isn't like zoro and luffy and that he doesn't have the same spirit and will, right? Well tell that to the author who disagrees on this take
I've always thought of Sanji as in-between Luffy & Zoro, and the rest of the crew. Nothing happened is a great moment for this, as Sanji tries to do what Zoro does, but for whatever reason can't succeed. Sanji's close, but at the same time quite obviously different. Zoro doesn't need Luffy to pick him up and push him one way or another - because he's a conqueror through-and-through. Sanji needs his captain otherwise he never starts his journey; Zoro did it on his own. Sanji doesn't have their spirit/will, he's more of a follower similar to most of the rest of the crew (which isn't a bad thing necessarily, it's just how it is).
Sanji didn't start as a character willing to die for his dream, and he never became one (wci), not like Zoro or Luffy. Those two are naturally this way, it's a core aspect of them but it isn't for Sanji. It's why I said individual fame, Sanji was never intended to be anyone exceptional outside of Luffy, but Zoro was.
I'm rambling but my basic point is you're trying to make Sanji's half-hearted portrayal as a strong and brave fighter equal to that of Zoro and Luffy as conquerors. Oda has highlighted differences. Sanji not having CoC is a good start.
Your saying Sanji is like Zoro/Luffy, shares their will/spirit is ridiculous. That was impossible, ever since he left and submitted to BM (no matter what reason you give it, Oda'd never have Zoro do that). Zoro will either die or achieve his dream, Luffy will either die or achieve his dream. Sanji can live without it. TB was perfect for this as Zoro's body willed itself through the damage that should have killed him, Sanji's... couldn't. Oda didn't need to have Sanji try and fail, but he did.
Lots of characters have that 'I'll do whatever it takes for this' attitude - I'd argue it's almost a necessity for building a likable heroic character in OP, but that doesn't mean it's a key aspect that immediately puts them on the level of Luffy and Zoro, is my point.
