Break Week Why Sanji and Zoro Suck as Characters

#1
Introduction:
In the vast and diverse world of One Piece, there are numerous iconic characters who have captured the hearts of fans. However, it is important to critically evaluate and discuss the flaws that exist even within beloved characters. This post aims to shed light on the shortcomings of Zoro and Sanji, two popular characters from the series.

Stagnant Character Development:
One of the major drawbacks of both Zoro and Sanji is their lack of substantial character development throughout the series. While their skills and abilities have improved, their core personalities and motivations have remained largely unchanged. Zoro is consistently portrayed as a stoic and serious swordsman, rarely showing any emotional growth. Similarly, Sanji's primary characteristics of being a flirtatious and chivalrous cook have remained stagnant over the years. Their lack of evolution limits the depth and complexity that could have been explored within their characters.

Overreliance on Stereotypes:
Zoro and Sanji often fall prey to stereotypes that undermine their potential as well-rounded characters. Zoro is portrayed as the archetypal "strong and silent" type, with little variation in his demeanor. While this may appeal to certain fans, it ultimately restricts the exploration of his emotional depth and vulnerabilities. On the other hand, Sanji's constant pursuit of women and his over-the-top romantic gestures perpetuate the tired trope of the "womanizer." This repetitive characterization hinders the exploration of more substantial aspects of his personality.

Lack of Unique Motivations:
Both Zoro and Sanji share a common goal of supporting their captain, Monkey D. Luffy, on his journey to become the Pirate King. While loyalty is commendable, their individual motivations are largely overshadowed by their devotion to Luffy. This diminishes the opportunity to explore their personal aspirations and backstories in a meaningful way. As a result, their characters often feel one-dimensional and lacking in depth when compared to other members of the Straw Hat crew.

Limited Interaction and Development:
Despite being part of the same crew, Zoro and Sanji rarely share substantial interactions or significant character development with each other. Their dynamic is primarily based on petty rivalry and humorous banter, which limits the potential for deeper bonds and character growth. This lack of meaningful connection between them restricts their overall impact on the story and fails to explore the potential synergies that could arise from their distinct personalities.

Conclusion:
While Zoro and Sanji may be fan favorites in the One Piece series, it is important to acknowledge their shortcomings as characters. Their lack of substantial development, reliance on stereotypes, limited motivations, and stagnant interactions hinder the exploration of their true potential. Despite their flaws, it is worth noting that different readers may find aspects of their personalities and abilities appealing. However, in the grand scheme of the narrative, Zoro and Sanji fall short of achieving the depth and complexity displayed by other characters in the series.
 
#5
No one cares niggga
Well fans care! The world of One Piece is vast, and numerous characters have left a lasting impression on fans. Zoro and Sanji are not among them, take Chopper for example....Chopper stands out as a truly remarkable character who surpasses both Zoro and Sanji in various aspects.

Dynamic Character Development
Multifaceted Personality
Unique Abilities and Skills
Heartwarming Relationships
 
#11
Stagnant Character Development:

One of the major drawbacks of both Zoro and Sanji is their lack of substantial character development throughout the series.
Oda setups Sanji's sacrifical & selfless traits since Enies Lobby, climaxed in WCI, and concluded in Wano.

Did you skip the chapter where Sanji finally asks Robin for help against Black Maria, when back in Enies Lobby he refused to say anything?

That's a fucking big panel your eyes missed.

As a result, their characters often feel one-dimensional and lacking in depth when compared to other members of the Straw Hat crew.
Are you for real?

- Do you know what animals the other SH fears? Because we know Sanji is afraid of spider.

- Do you know why nakama X have a good this or that ability?
Because we know Sanji is good at swimming due to his dream of finding All Blue.
Because we know Sanji is good at stealth due to his escaping Germa.
Because we know Sanji is good at cooking to please his mom.
Because we know Sanji can fly for the thematic connection with his mother named Sora.

- Do you know why the SH have their trait? Like why Brook is looking for panties or Robin being stern or the others?
Because we know Sanji has self sacrifical personality due to his childhood feeling useless.

- Do you know why the SH is called/named this or that?
Because we know Sanji is being seen/named/called as kind due to his role as a cook, who will feed both friend and enemy alike.

- Do other SH have secondary or tertiary job and dreams?
Because we know that beside a fighter and a cook, Sanji is also a spy, a swordsman, and a hairdresser.
Because we know that beside looking for All Blue, Sanji had a goal of eating Invisibility DF.

I can give other depths if you want.

Sanji often fall prey to stereotypes that undermine their potential as well-rounded characters.
Not well rounded?

For characteristics, do you forget that Sanji have moments where he :
- is so angry?
- is so emotional?
- being arrogant?
- being hopeless & asking for help?
- gave advice to others & lead them?
- given life lessons by Luffy & be brought back to the crew?

For dynamic, have you realize that Sanji :
- can be paired with the females
- can be paired & did goofy stuff
- can be paired & seen doing cool moments with cool characters
- can be put into comedic scenes or dramatic scenes
- can save the day, but also needed to getting saved

---

All in all, boi, if you want to shade Sanji, there are bazillion canon reasons with panel examples, yet you choose "Sanji lacking depths".

Even this guy's eyebrows has meaning and his fucking lighter got a blueprint straight from Oda.
 
Last edited:
#12
Sanjis character has developed allot. He went from trying to take 100% of the weight to leaning on his crew mates like Robin

There's been plenty of development for sanjis character. That we can visibly see

For zoro... not so much
I agree with this one. During Whole Cake Island where we explored Sanji's backstory he had moments of development and had to come to terms with his heritage. His view on women also was tested with Pudding's betrayal.
Zoro is kind of lacking such an arc.

That being said, development for the sake of change isn't good. Always advancing isn't smart when you're at the edge of a cliff. A character like Sanji for example staying a true gentleman and refusing to hit women EVER is not a lack of character development but a character staying true to his principles.
 
#13
I agree with this one. During Whole Cake Island where we explored Sanji's backstory he had moments of development and had to come to terms with his heritage. His view on women also was tested with Pudding's betrayal.
Zoro is kind of lacking such an arc.

That being said, development for the sake of change isn't good. Always advancing isn't smart when you're at the edge of a cliff. A character like Sanji for example staying a true gentleman and refusing to hit women EVER is not a lack of character development but a character staying true to his principles.
I see it as sanji progressing in the areas that need it and staying true to the aspects of his character that made him great in the first place.

Some people value the wrong things and that's why they don't get or like sanjis character. Especially the not hitting woman part. 😒

I really liked how oda tied zeff into that in wci.
 
C

CensoredbyWG

#14
One piece's strength lies on world building, foreshadowing and creating mysteries.

Most characters never had much of a development emotionally when it comes to that.
 
#15
I love all the complaints about character development when dbz, naruto, bleach and others it's actually the same. Only fights, stronger opponents appear, PU and then fight again.

But only here people complain.

Also Luffy is today hated by lots of people because Oda focuses a lot about his development.

So it proves to not touch certain characters.
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#17
One of the major drawbacks of both Zoro and Sanji is their lack of substantial character development throughout the series. While their skills and abilities have improved, their core personalities and motivations have remained largely unchanged. Zoro is consistently portrayed as a stoic and serious swordsman, rarely showing any emotional growth.
Zoro didn't change post TS, he went through his character arc throughout the pre TS finishing at Nothing Happened.

Both Zoro and Sanji share a common goal of supporting their captain, Monkey D. Luffy, on his journey to become the Pirate King. While loyalty is commendable, their individual motivations are largely overshadowed by their devotion to Luffy.
Yes.
Entire Post Ts has been Luffy Piece.

Despite being part of the same crew, Zoro and Sanji rarely share substantial interactions or significant character development with each other. Their dynamic is primarily based on petty rivalry and humorous banter, which limits the potential for deeper bonds and character growth. This lack of meaningful connection between them restricts their overall impact on the story and fails to explore the potential synergies that could arise from their distinct personalities.
Literally last arc, when Sanji asked Zoro to kill him if he ends up losing his mind.

Yea nah, you are all over the place with this one.
 
#18
Introduction:
In the vast and diverse world of One Piece, there are numerous iconic characters who have captured the hearts of fans. However, it is important to critically evaluate and discuss the flaws that exist even within beloved characters. This post aims to shed light on the shortcomings of Zoro and Sanji, two popular characters from the series.

Stagnant Character Development:
One of the major drawbacks of both Zoro and Sanji is their lack of substantial character development throughout the series. While their skills and abilities have improved, their core personalities and motivations have remained largely unchanged. Zoro is consistently portrayed as a stoic and serious swordsman, rarely showing any emotional growth. Similarly, Sanji's primary characteristics of being a flirtatious and chivalrous cook have remained stagnant over the years. Their lack of evolution limits the depth and complexity that could have been explored within their characters.

Overreliance on Stereotypes:
Zoro and Sanji often fall prey to stereotypes that undermine their potential as well-rounded characters. Zoro is portrayed as the archetypal "strong and silent" type, with little variation in his demeanor. While this may appeal to certain fans, it ultimately restricts the exploration of his emotional depth and vulnerabilities. On the other hand, Sanji's constant pursuit of women and his over-the-top romantic gestures perpetuate the tired trope of the "womanizer." This repetitive characterization hinders the exploration of more substantial aspects of his personality.

Lack of Unique Motivations:
Both Zoro and Sanji share a common goal of supporting their captain, Monkey D. Luffy, on his journey to become the Pirate King. While loyalty is commendable, their individual motivations are largely overshadowed by their devotion to Luffy. This diminishes the opportunity to explore their personal aspirations and backstories in a meaningful way. As a result, their characters often feel one-dimensional and lacking in depth when compared to other members of the Straw Hat crew.

Limited Interaction and Development:
Despite being part of the same crew, Zoro and Sanji rarely share substantial interactions or significant character development with each other. Their dynamic is primarily based on petty rivalry and humorous banter, which limits the potential for deeper bonds and character growth. This lack of meaningful connection between them restricts their overall impact on the story and fails to explore the potential synergies that could arise from their distinct personalities.

Conclusion:
While Zoro and Sanji may be fan favorites in the One Piece series, it is important to acknowledge their shortcomings as characters. Their lack of substantial development, reliance on stereotypes, limited motivations, and stagnant interactions hinder the exploration of their true potential. Despite their flaws, it is worth noting that different readers may find aspects of their personalities and abilities appealing. However, in the grand scheme of the narrative, Zoro and Sanji fall short of achieving the depth and complexity displayed by other characters in the series.
 
#19
There are plenty of stories (mangas, novels, movies, series, whatever) with characters that don't evolve in that sense, and they're still great characters, because they're precisely built to not evolve.

Those are not reasons why they objectively suck, but reasons why you subjectively don't like them.
Dude, no manga has 1000 chapters. If One Piece was 500 chapters then you can claim that, but for a manga to have 1000+ chapters and not to explore the traits the poster outlined is inexcusable. Yall One Piece fanboys surely love using the "subjective" excuse to protect yall Goda from criticism.
 
#20
Dude, no manga has 1000 chapters. If One Piece was 500 chapters then you can claim that, but for a manga to have 1000+ chapters and not to explore the traits the poster outlined is inexcusable. Yall One Piece fanboys surely love using the "subjective" excuse to protect yall Goda from criticism.
What I said in my comment doesn't change when a story reaches a certain number of chapters. It being 1000 chapters long is inconsequential. If they're built to be like that, they will stay that way even if the manga reaches 10000 chapters. You can see that many people like the characters that way, it's too bad if it doesn't appeal to you, but it's clearly succeeding at what it intended to do. If the characters are designed to not change their cores throughout the story, they won't change, because that's their actual appeal. Objectively, it's neither bad nor good, it's the intent and it's accomplishing it. Subjectively, you are perfectly entitled to dislike characters that are built like that, but there are plenty of other stories that do have the kind of character development that you seek. Plenty of others to choose from to read or watch.

Tastes are subjective, and the points brought up on this thread are a matter of taste. There is a big difference between objectivity and subjectivity, so if One Piece fanboys use the term "subjective" a lot with you, perhaps you should try to be a little objective. Some day you may realize your personal taste isn't a criteria for something to be good or bad. Do you not like any movie that you know is bad despite how much you like it? Don't you dislike any movie that won awards?

I myself have criticized plenty of stuff since the timeskip (I dislike all arcs compared to pre-TS), and never used a cringe term like "Goda", so generalizing isn't doing you any favors here. Just read something different if you don't like it, nobody's forcing you, and I'm not meaning to say it aggressively, there are better things to do with your time.
 
Top