Character Discussion Why Shiryu killing Mihawk (SKM) is perfect writing
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Shiryu's entire ability shows that even if he could sneak someone and kill them, like mihawk
It's not because he's a better swordsman, you could say he is an incredibly dangerous individual like a top tier assassin
But you wouldn't call him a great swordsman, so where is the test for zoro to prove he's the greatest?
I don't see how a gimmick fight like shiryu is spose to be better
It's not because he's a better swordsman, you could say he is an incredibly dangerous individual like a top tier assassin
But you wouldn't call him a great swordsman, so where is the test for zoro to prove he's the greatest?
I don't see how a gimmick fight like shiryu is spose to be better
I just agree because after Mihawk trained Zoro it makes no sense for them to fight each other.
But I wanted to point out somethings. That Luffy and Shanks can't meet bullshit is completely made up from Oda out of nowhere. The promise is to return the hat. Not that they can't meet up.
Zoro's loyalty to Luffy clearly surpassed his dreams the moment he turned himself to Kuma and Oda even reinforced that in the fight with King where he said he would've bite him if needed to win. Basically throwing away his swordsmanship pride.
This is the coolest character development of all crew that got intensified at Wano. The whole crew dream is to make Luffy Pirate King. Only then they have their individual dreams in second priority.
But I wanted to point out somethings. That Luffy and Shanks can't meet bullshit is completely made up from Oda out of nowhere. The promise is to return the hat. Not that they can't meet up.
Zoro's loyalty to Luffy clearly surpassed his dreams the moment he turned himself to Kuma and Oda even reinforced that in the fight with King where he said he would've bite him if needed to win. Basically throwing away his swordsmanship pride.
This is the coolest character development of all crew that got intensified at Wano. The whole crew dream is to make Luffy Pirate King. Only then they have their individual dreams in second priority.
We have Kuina and Zoro dueling 2,000 times without killing each other.
The tension isn't if Zoro will best Mihawk, but how, and how far has Zoro gone compared to their first duel.
Also Zoro isn't just defeating Mihawk, but Mihawk + Yoru. I just don't see someone like Shiryu wielding the greatest blade in the verse.
This is a student finally beats the master trope since their first duel where Mihawk spared Zoro's life.
Luffy wants to surpass Shanks and his crew. He can do this without fighting them.
The tension isn't if Zoro will best Mihawk, but how, and how far has Zoro gone compared to their first duel.
Also Zoro isn't just defeating Mihawk, but Mihawk + Yoru. I just don't see someone like Shiryu wielding the greatest blade in the verse.
This is a student finally beats the master trope since their first duel where Mihawk spared Zoro's life.
Luffy wants to surpass Shanks and his crew. He can do this without fighting them.
Nah you don't understand, young lad.
Shiryuu seriously lack the strength factor for fans to push him at the level, i.e the Strongest Top 1.
Being under BB and possibly Kuzan, greatly hinder the wank they can get. So no it's not better for Z agenda.
Mihawk had bad portrayal in MF, but Shanks n his WSS keeps elevating him and with no limits on top but WB.
Also now Z can get both, both Shiryuu n Mihawk. Then it'd only be one fight.
Shiryuu seriously lack the strength factor for fans to push him at the level, i.e the Strongest Top 1.
Being under BB and possibly Kuzan, greatly hinder the wank they can get. So no it's not better for Z agenda.
Mihawk had bad portrayal in MF, but Shanks n his WSS keeps elevating him and with no limits on top but WB.
Also now Z can get both, both Shiryuu n Mihawk. Then it'd only be one fight.
Nah, although the "Shiryu will surpass Mihawk" sounds good, Shiryu won't get anything much from killing Mihawk.
Getting Yoru? Different fighting style than using his good old Raiu because Yoru's size is far bigger than Raiu.
Him killing the bum regen merchant Venus makes more sense, Shodai Kitetsu sounds like better upgrade to Raiu than Yoru because Shodai and Raiu are in similar size (or it's later revealed Raiu is also 1 of 12 Supreme Swords).
Zoro will defeat Mihawk first then get the WSS title.
And instead of becoming pussy champion like Mihawk who never defended his title in 1100 chapters and going home as soon as Shanks appeared in MF, Zoro will defend his title often. The biggest challenger just turns out to be Shiryu.
Getting Yoru? Different fighting style than using his good old Raiu because Yoru's size is far bigger than Raiu.
Him killing the bum regen merchant Venus makes more sense, Shodai Kitetsu sounds like better upgrade to Raiu than Yoru because Shodai and Raiu are in similar size (or it's later revealed Raiu is also 1 of 12 Supreme Swords).
Zoro will defeat Mihawk first then get the WSS title.
And instead of becoming pussy champion like Mihawk who never defended his title in 1100 chapters and going home as soon as Shanks appeared in MF, Zoro will defend his title often. The biggest challenger just turns out to be Shiryu.
Ok, I can sniff those comments from a mile away. "ohhh you're scared of Mihawk's strength" blah blah blah. No, I don't really care about Mihawk, I'm only talking as to why this is going to be good writing for Zoro.
This doesn't change Mihawk's PL in the slightest. Mihawk is still as strong as y'all want him to be. All it means is Shiryu will also surpass him(yeah yeah, shiryu will surpass shanks too). That's ironically better for Zoro agenda wise too since he's fighting a stronger character.
Ok, so now that is out of the way, let's dive in:
"However long it may take, I'll wait for you at the top". This was PEAK. Mihawk giving an open challenge to Zoro to do everything to surpass him.
I mean... just look at the whole sequence. There's so much emotional baggage.
It's similar to this Shanks/Luffy moment. Shanks telling Luffy to only give the hat back to him ONCE LUFFY HAS SURPASSED HIM. Once again, great writing since it sets up a clear barrier for the main characters to surpass and creates a symbolic distance that is only meant to be passed up at the end.
Now imagine this happened: In Marineford, instead of Shanks rejecting to meet Luffy because it violates the premise of their promise, he just went back on it to meet him and comfort him? Would the future meetup of those 2 hit anywhere NEAR the same? Ofc not. The fact Shanks was willing to not even meet Luffy when his life was being threatened despite having loads of care and love for him AND his crew insisting to meet with Luffy adds even more buildup to their future meetup because Oda has clearly established they won't be meeting before Luffy surpasses him NO MATTER WHAT. I mean Oda even gives a callback to their promise.
Same thing could have happened with Mihawk/Zoro but Mihawk just let it all go to train him.
Don't get me wrong now:
1) This is GREAT writing for Zoro since it's in contrast for what he said to Luffy when he was introduced. That he'd leave the crew if it came in the way of being WSS.
Now he's putting his captain's dream above all because he values Luffy immensely as both a friend and a captain.
2) This is also good writing for Mihawk. Since this is a contrast to chapter 96 when he childishly dropped his rivalry with Shanks cause he lost an arm.
Mihawk couldn't fathom Shanks valuing something above raw strength (which was the only thing Mihawk valued). He was taken back from Shanks having a greater goal than being WSS (Shanks prioritizing the future of the world where Luffy fulfils the Nika prophecy and MAYBE cutting ties with his family/WG as well). But this time, he has character development, instead of childishly rejecting Zoro, he offers to train him because he realises not everyone is like him and people have other things to work on other than strength.
However, while this character development development is narratively rich...
...It inadvertently kills the tension in their eventual showdown. Their rivalry was originally framed like Shanks and Luffy’s—rooted in a future promise, a symbolic distance that could only be crossed once one surpassed the other. The moment Mihawk agreed to train Zoro, that distance collapsed. Their future fight now lacks the emotional weight it once held; it feels less like a destined clash between equals and more like a graduation. The tension, the suspense, the idea of Zoro having to reach Mihawk's level through sheer will and journey—all of that dissolves into a more tempered, respectful dynamic. That’s why Shiryu killing Mihawk would restore the dramatic stakes. It reframes Zoro’s path not only as a journey to become the strongest, but also one of vengeance and legacy. Now, Zoro must not just fulfill a promise—he must carry on Mihawk’s will, making their bond and Zoro’s eventual triumph far more emotionally charged.
This doesn't change Mihawk's PL in the slightest. Mihawk is still as strong as y'all want him to be. All it means is Shiryu will also surpass him(yeah yeah, shiryu will surpass shanks too). That's ironically better for Zoro agenda wise too since he's fighting a stronger character.
Ok, so now that is out of the way, let's dive in:
"However long it may take, I'll wait for you at the top". This was PEAK. Mihawk giving an open challenge to Zoro to do everything to surpass him.
I mean... just look at the whole sequence. There's so much emotional baggage.
It's similar to this Shanks/Luffy moment. Shanks telling Luffy to only give the hat back to him ONCE LUFFY HAS SURPASSED HIM. Once again, great writing since it sets up a clear barrier for the main characters to surpass and creates a symbolic distance that is only meant to be passed up at the end.
Now imagine this happened: In Marineford, instead of Shanks rejecting to meet Luffy because it violates the premise of their promise, he just went back on it to meet him and comfort him? Would the future meetup of those 2 hit anywhere NEAR the same? Ofc not. The fact Shanks was willing to not even meet Luffy when his life was being threatened despite having loads of care and love for him AND his crew insisting to meet with Luffy adds even more buildup to their future meetup because Oda has clearly established they won't be meeting before Luffy surpasses him NO MATTER WHAT. I mean Oda even gives a callback to their promise.
Same thing could have happened with Mihawk/Zoro but Mihawk just let it all go to train him.
Don't get me wrong now:
1) This is GREAT writing for Zoro since it's in contrast for what he said to Luffy when he was introduced. That he'd leave the crew if it came in the way of being WSS.
Now he's putting his captain's dream above all because he values Luffy immensely as both a friend and a captain.
2) This is also good writing for Mihawk. Since this is a contrast to chapter 96 when he childishly dropped his rivalry with Shanks cause he lost an arm.
Mihawk couldn't fathom Shanks valuing something above raw strength (which was the only thing Mihawk valued). He was taken back from Shanks having a greater goal than being WSS (Shanks prioritizing the future of the world where Luffy fulfils the Nika prophecy and MAYBE cutting ties with his family/WG as well). But this time, he has character development, instead of childishly rejecting Zoro, he offers to train him because he realises not everyone is like him and people have other things to work on other than strength.
However, while this character development development is narratively rich...
...It inadvertently kills the tension in their eventual showdown. Their rivalry was originally framed like Shanks and Luffy’s—rooted in a future promise, a symbolic distance that could only be crossed once one surpassed the other. The moment Mihawk agreed to train Zoro, that distance collapsed. Their future fight now lacks the emotional weight it once held; it feels less like a destined clash between equals and more like a graduation. The tension, the suspense, the idea of Zoro having to reach Mihawk's level through sheer will and journey—all of that dissolves into a more tempered, respectful dynamic. That’s why Shiryu killing Mihawk would restore the dramatic stakes. It reframes Zoro’s path not only as a journey to become the strongest, but also one of vengeance and legacy. Now, Zoro must not just fulfill a promise—he must carry on Mihawk’s will, making their bond and Zoro’s eventual triumph far more emotionally charged.
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I think Buggy being pk is not subversion for subversion sake.
Luffy has clearly declared his real dream is not being PK, so he sees PK as the only means to get his dream happening.
I believe he will achieve his dream without being PK, and Buggy is gonna take it.
Otherwise what's the point of introducing a "real dream" after Wano and the joyboy shenanigans
Shyriu should focus on getting feats instead of fighting 10v1 against garp along side and admiral and still barely winning
Luffy has clearly declared his real dream is not being PK, so he sees PK as the only means to get his dream happening.
I believe he will achieve his dream without being PK, and Buggy is gonna take it.
Otherwise what's the point of introducing a "real dream" after Wano and the joyboy shenanigans
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Shyriu should focus on getting feats instead of fighting 10v1 against garp along side and admiral and still barely winning
The iceberg slash in Marineford has shown us one thing and that is the level of gap between Mihawk and Kuzan.
Kuzan no diffed BB pirates and beats everyone except Blackbeard. He also gave Akainu and Garb trouble and no/low diffs everyone not Yonko/admirals.
All top tiers have shown to use haki or devil fruit and use reasonable amount of effort to shake things up. You can see how much force they exert into it.
Meanwhile, Mihawk wasn't even trying and yet in one single instant, effortless, nameless casual swing, he created an air pressure to cut Kuzan's iceberg. What does that tells you?
Not only that but a slash that he barely swung forced Jozu to grit his teeth and anchor his foot to the ground and was only able to deflect it upward than stopping it completely. The same for casually stopping Fujitoria's meteor who made Zoro, Law and Doflamingo panic.
What does someone that Garb calls a punk from ID can do?
Kuzan no diffed BB pirates and beats everyone except Blackbeard. He also gave Akainu and Garb trouble and no/low diffs everyone not Yonko/admirals.
All top tiers have shown to use haki or devil fruit and use reasonable amount of effort to shake things up. You can see how much force they exert into it.
Meanwhile, Mihawk wasn't even trying and yet in one single instant, effortless, nameless casual swing, he created an air pressure to cut Kuzan's iceberg. What does that tells you?
Not only that but a slash that he barely swung forced Jozu to grit his teeth and anchor his foot to the ground and was only able to deflect it upward than stopping it completely. The same for casually stopping Fujitoria's meteor who made Zoro, Law and Doflamingo panic.
What does someone that Garb calls a punk from ID can do?