Character Discussion Why Vergo is better than Katakuri (edited version)

Sentinel

Sentinel

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#81
#81
critical mindset said:
Bro, Zoro is a real fighter with spirit who deserves CoC, while Katakuri has no passion and was shown that all he wanted was to live a couch-potato life and just be accepted for his appearance and eat donouts
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How many times do I have to explain this to you?
Katakuri showed passion and the balls to change his whole appearance, no, his entire character for the purpose to protect his siblings. That's why he is calm and cautious - characteristics which go along with his FS.

Zoro deserves CoC, I agree. Vergo? No, he's just Doflamingo's dog who betrayed and killed his own trusted men. He doesn't have CoC and there's a good reason for it.

critical mindset said:
Katakuri developed great deal of self-consciousness surrounding his looks.
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No, re-read the manga.

You're just inventing some characteristics which Katakuri hasn't shown thus far. Where was he self-conscious about his appearance other than the aforementioned facts?

critical mindset said:
would like to think it was just all self-sacrifice, when it was shown he didn’t have the balls to exit from that identity he had developed.
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He had the balls to sacrifice his freedom and he has the balls to shove his true identity onto his siblings' asses when they heavily interrupted his 1vs1 fight.

You have to research his character once again.

critical mindset said:
It is then a form of self-delusion for Kata where he pretends it is all a self-sacrificing act, but deep down he knows that he is lying to himself; in reality it takes balls to change and Kata lacked the balls to exit from his comfort zone.
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He created a fake image just for the sole purpose of those dearly to him; how is he just "pretending" his self-sacrifice?

It is definitely debatable whether it was really that useful to build a fake image like that and whether this was one of Katakuri's flaws but to argue that the dude - who openly sacrificed his "goofiness" in order to become a different individual - is self-conscious or even a coward is plain up wrong.

Katakuri is a character who had flaws AND had the balls to change those flaws - hence he has the balls to change his personality. That's why his character development is that great actually.

BTW, no, his goofiness is his comfort zone. You probably meant that Katakuri lacked the balls to exit from his danger zone.

However, the act of realisation to have massive flaws isn't really a proof of "lacking" balls. If there was nobody who showed him his flaws, how exactly didn't Kata have the dignity to change his danger zone if the realisation simply failed?
That's why Katakuri needed Luffy to show him those flaws - and when Katakuri realised those and how his siblings truly behaved in front of him, he immediately exit from his danger zone.

Also, perhaps you do not realise that but look at the pure fact how many aspects we're debating about Katakuri. That's why his character is also great - his character development is good enough to have different interpretations of him.
Meanwhile Vergo... I still cannot find any proper characteristics which apparently demonstrate why his character is so much better than Katakuri's. I'm serious btw, that ain't baiting.
 
S

Shuyaku

#82
#82
swarna said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/aqgvy2
Katakuri is overrated. Fun and likable character, but his FS carries him in combat. Otherwise Luffy already had him outmatched in physicals from the outset, especially durability. Doflamingo took a better beating than Kat. There's probably a good reason his bounty is only slightly higher than Jack's and well below Queen's. I don't buy the argument that calamities "cause more of a ruckus, therefore they have higher bounties". One Piece, to make its content digestible for readers of all ages, makes some things very simple. Bounties, for villains, have always reflected relative strength levels. I have a feeling his base physicals are the weakest when comparing the top underlings of all emperors.
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None of these are points in favor of Vergo though. Luffy one shots Vergo in his sleep.
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

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#83
#83
Roronoa-sama said:
Proctecting his family i suppose, so why he never become strong enough to stop his mother, why he never fight with another big pirates like Mihawk or shanks.
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You're throwing two different ambitions around you and try to equalize their value.

It's a difference to have the ambition to be the strongest in order to prove a point (Zoro becoming the WSS) and the ambition to be stronger to protect those around you

Katakuri doesn't actively look around challenges - although he has shown the interest of pure 1vs1 fights and he takes these very seriously - he simply wants to fulfill his duties and responsibilities to protect his family. That's why he is cautious and that's why he's also extremely calm.

The last Katakuri would do is randomly challenging Mihawk or Shanks. He doesn't benefit at all from those fights.
 
Steven

Steven

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#86
#86
critical mindset said:
Those stats are pretty damning :cheers:

You see what a beast Vergo is when he took 2 DJs (and was smashed into steel from it) yet when he enters the SAD room all the visible damages are gone. Meanwhile Luffy got knocked out (temporarily though) by DJ and got totally murked with a fractured skull, then you see just how much repetitive and excessive damage Kata put Luffy through. Just compare that to the effects of Diable Jambe which is completely brutal by comparison:rolaugh:
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Rofl,1 casual punch from Kata and Lergo is dead:yearight:
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

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#87
#87
critical mindset said:
@BakiDou see this guy right here He just got swiped left in favour of you as my new right hand man
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Lol, it's because whenever we debate about Vergo - okay, 99% of our debates are about Vergo lol - you are extremely bias about him and you literally invent your own fanfiction. Ie. Vergo producing white flames with his kicks...

You literally argue Vergo beats Big Mom's strongest Commander. That's some Tyquan level of powerscaling.
 
C

critical mindset

#88
#88
Sentinel said:
Lol, it's because whenever we debate about Vergo - okay, 99% of our debates are about Vergo lol - you are extremely bias about him and you literally invent your own fanfiction. Ie. Vergo producing white flames with his kicks...
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Tell me what it is then
Shuyaku said:
You still haven't realized i was just playing along with your garbage ? I'm definitely honored to not be your right anything lmfao.

Vergo is a mildly enjoyable minor character, but weak as fuck.
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I had a fun time memimg Vergo with you, and sharing the spoilers, but it takes a true man like Bakigod who also loves Boyka to respect Vergo more than being in favour of Kuri.
 
BakiDou

BakiDou

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#90
#90
Katakuri cant beat shit, tell me 1 good victory of katakuri.... He defeated his own cooks, but thats all. Ichiji, Niji etc, those were gangbanged at the tea party, and Katakuri used this opportunity to cheapshoot Ichiji.
Oda wasted CoC on Katakuri, an insecure dude who killed his own men, and let the enemy escape.
I hope BlackBeard pulls up in wci while bm is in wano, the poor shitkuri will be low diffed and killed.
Vergo had his own arc, where he was the star, in wci big mom was the true enemy of the arc.
Bring Vergo in wci and he low diffs Katakuri.
Vergo won vs Sanji, Smoker, Trashigi, he would have beat trafalgar if it wasnt for smoker.
Katakuri cant beat a luffy, who doesnt knows fs for the majority of the fight. While Katakuri with superior coa, coo, somehow managed to lose. Katakuri is the first yc1 to lose in a straigh 1v1 fight(he had help from flampe tho, still lets say 1v1 for the sake of not embarrassing him even more).
The spoiled brat of bigmom has no chances vs the goat of Ph Vergo.
@critical mindset only 13yo edgy boys love Katakuri. They can relate to him, a spoiled brat who doesnt know wtf is he doying. Imagine that this dude has CoC lmao, even Chopper got more personality, and ambition, he wants to cure every illness after all. The biggest dream of Katakuri is to eat donuts.
 
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C

critical mindset

#91
#91
BakiDou said:
Katakuri cant beat shit, tell me 1 good victory of katakuri.... He defeated his own cooks, but thats all. Ichiji, Niji etc, those were gangbanged at the tea party, and Katakuri used this opportunity to cheapshoot Ichiji.
Oda wasted CoC on Katakuri, an insecure dude who killed his own men, and let the enemy escape.
I hope BlackBeard pulls up in wci while bm is in wano, the poor shitkuri will be low diffed and killed.
Vergo had his own arc, where he was the star, in wci big mom was the true enemy of the arc.
Bring Vergo in wci and he low diffs Katakuri.
Vergo won vs Sanji, Smoker, Trashigi, he would have beat trafalgar if it wasnt for smoker.
Katakuri cant beat a luffy, who doesnt knows fs for the majority of the fight. While Katakuri with superior coa, coo, somehow managed to lose. Katakuri is the first yc1 to lose in a straigh 1v1 fight(he had help from flampe tho, still lets say 1v1 for the sake of not embarrassing him even more).
The spoiled brat of bigmom has no chances vs the goat of Ph Vergo.
@critical mindset only 13yo edgy boys love Katakuri. They can relate to him, a spoiled brat who doesnt know wtf is he doying. Imagine that this dude has CoC lmao, even Chopper got more personality, and ambition, he wants to cure every illness after all. The biggest dream of Katakuri is to eat donuts.
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Succinct and well put, man you are a goat :cheers::suresure:
 
C

critical mindset

#100
#100
Shuyaku said:
Ah my bad i read his text wrong. Wouldn't be surprised if you end up going there tho..
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You know Vergo was a nice character that provided some real tension. Just reading PH for the first time gave me chills with Vergo as the antagonist. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way even though you admitted he has exceptional feats. In my opinion most other characters are rather boring (DD exception with his abilit and personality) with nowhere near his overall wide abilityset and power all things considered. Vergo was like a real Rambo fighter that I can't say the same about anyone else frankly speaking, can you? Kata has lots of gimmicks and all but he was quite underwhelming against Luffy where some people have set his accomplishment as a standard. Actually the standard is higher than what Kuri could accomplish against Luffy, which is why people are turning on Kata in powerlevel threads. Vergo did set the bar rather high which I've shown in PL discussions. Kuri is a skilled fighter so it will be a very hard fight for Vergo regardless, when Kata isn't restricted by plot bc he could've easily killed Luffy at any point in the fight

Let's wait to see just how deadly this Counter Shock thing is and how well characters can eat it to the same size that Vergo took it (which was a lot bigger than even Doffy's Counter Shock). There's a lot of things that will vindicate Vergo's power even more I can bet you. But you can go on "not caring" about him

Edit: saying you dont care about Vergo means you don't care about Smoker either. Let's see how well he does this arc. I can guarantee you he will do phenomenally well
 
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