Powers & Abilities Will weaker characters like Sanji unlocking ACoC devalue ACoC?

Will non top tier characters having ACoC devalue it?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 50.9%

  • No

    Votes: 26 49.1%
  • Total voters
    53
RayanOO

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
‎
#181
#181
SkySanji said:
No it doesn't, Luffy left Wano at least stronger than Kizaru who himself is stronger than Sanji's Admiral matchup, Ryokugyu, and honestly, I see no reason to put Akainu above Luffy either, neither feats nor portrayal favor Akainu.
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End of Wano Luffy couldn’t beat Kaido by himself needed multiple rounds and help

Post Wano Luffy in Egghead matched Kizaru. Both maybe weren’t going for the kill but Kizaru was clearly the more nerfed of the two. Especially now we know it was Kizaru who fed Luffy.

So Egghead Luffy > Kizaru isn’t totally true. But they are clearly comparable.

I agree that Kiz > Ryo but I don’t think the gap is huge at all. Clearly an extreme diff fight.

Sanji post end game PU would beat a top tier. Either Ryo or a Gorosei. That would place him above Kizaru and so above EOW Luffy.
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And FA current Aka > EOW / Egghead Luffy no doubt
 
SkySanji

SkySanji

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#182
#182
RayanOO said:
End of Wano Luffy couldn’t beat Kaido by himself needed multiple rounds and help

Post Wano Luffy in Egghead matched Kizaru. Both maybe weren’t going for the kill but Kizaru was clearly the more nerfed of the two. Especially now we know it was Kizaru who fed Luffy.

So Egghead Luffy > Kizaru isn’t totally true. But they are clearly comparable.

I agree that Kiz > Ryo but I don’t think the gap is huge at all. Clearly an extreme diff fight.

Sanji post end game PU would beat a top tier. Either Ryo or a Gorosei. That would place him above Kizaru and so above EOW Luffy.
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The point of Wano was Luffy surpassing Kaido, it's stated multiple times both in and outside of the manga, the only reason Luffy loses to Kaido is because of his timelimit, but he's still stronger, not that it even matters since Kaido is above all the Admirals regardless.

Post-Wano Luffy who wasn't spamming haki even one tenth as much as he did against Kaido looked superior to Kizaru every single time they interacted.

Luffy is 100% > Kizaru and Kizaru is 100% > Ryokugyu.

Sanji will beat Ryokugyu after an extreme diff fight, at best that would make him comparable to Kizaru who is below EOW Luffy.
 
SkySanji

SkySanji

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#184
#184
Sentinel said:
Same as Luffy was in Post WCI.
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Post-WCI Luffy is solid YC1 level given that he defeated one of the strongest YC1, Sanji defeated a YC2, and Queen is pretty much the Big Mom of the YC2's, a fat, slow, dumbass fighter, Sanji has still yet to show that he can defeat a YC1 in a fight.
 
RayanOO

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
‎
#185
#185
SkySanji said:
The point of Wano was Luffy surpassing Kaido, it's stated multiple times both in and outside of the manga, the only reason Luffy loses to Kaido is because of his timelimit, but he's still stronger, not that it even matters since Kaido is above all the Admirals regardless.
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Nope
Luffy beating an enemy doesn’t mean he is above that enemy.
Luffy wasn’t above Doffy, he wasn’t above Cracker and def wasn’t above Katakuri

It is the same for Kaido

in all those fights Luffy reached or was at the overall level of his opponent. But fresh vs fresh he wasn’t above them.

The point of Wano was Luffy doing what Oden couldn’t, beat Kaido and « freeing » Wano.
He did it. That doesn’t mean he was above Kaido.


SkySanji said:
Post-Wano Luffy who wasn't spamming haki even one tenth as much as he did against Kaido looked superior to Kizaru every single time they interacted.
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Yeah because Kiz went all out either ? Both were stalling or distracted or conflicted. And Kiz even more than Luffy.


SkySanji said:
Luffy is 100% > Kizaru and Kizaru is 100% > Ryokugyu.
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EOW/Egghead Luffy isn’t 100% > Kiz

but yeah Ryo is weaker than Kiz


SkySanji said:
Sanji will beat Ryokugyu after an extreme diff fight, at best that would make him comparable to Kizaru who is below EOW Luffy.
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Beating someone extreme diff doesn’t mean the same fight fresh vs fresh after that would be the same.

Sanji beating Queen extreme diff doesn’t mean post fight Sanji would need extreme diff to beat him.

Current Sanj would need mid/high diff to beat Queen and not extreme diff.

Sanji can be around Kiz level post Ryo fight if it’s an extreme diff for Sanji post fight. But if it’s a very high or high diff post fight then Sanji would be above.

Both case Sanji would be above EOW Luffy
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SkySanji said:
Post-WCI Luffy is solid YC1 level given that he defeated one of the strongest YC1,
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Kata > post WCI Luffy
Clear as day
 
Sentinel

Sentinel

‎
#186
#186
SkySanji said:
Post-WCI Luffy is solid YC1 level given that he defeated one of the strongest YC1, Sanji defeated a YC2, and Queen is pretty much the Big Mom of the YC2's, a fat, slow, dumbass fighter, Sanji has still yet to show that he can defeat a YC1 in a fight.
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So Luffy barely won against Katakuri - with many BS factors such as Katakuri injuring himself, Luffy fleeing mid battle or eating Kata's mochi to regain power - and he's solid YC1 level but if Sanji overwhelmingly destroys a YC2 with his PU, he's YC1.5? How does that even work?

At least Queen has feats, Smoothie is still completely featless and useless. He's also extremely tanky.
 
SkySanji

SkySanji

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#187
#187
RayanOO said:
Nope
Luffy beating an enemy doesn’t mean he is above that enemy.
Luffy wasn’t above Doffy, he wasn’t above Cracker and def wasn’t above Katakuri

It is the same for Kaido

in all those fights Luffy reached or was at the overall level of his opponent. But fresh vs fresh he wasn’t above them.

The point of Wano was Luffy doing what Oden couldn’t, beat Kaido and « freeing » Wano.
He did it. That doesn’t mean he was above Kaido.

Yeah because Kiz went all out either ? Both were stalling or distracted or conflicted. And Kiz even more than Luffy.

EOW/Egghead Luffy isn’t 100% > Kiz

but yeah Ryo is weaker than Kiz

Beating someone extreme diff doesn’t mean the same fight fresh vs fresh after that would be the same.

Sanji beating Queen extreme diff doesn’t mean post fight Sanji would need extreme diff to beat him.

Current Sanj would need mid/high diff to beat Queen and not extreme diff.

Sanji can be around Kiz level post Ryo fight if it’s an extreme diff for Sanji post fight. But if it’s a very high or high diff post fight then Sanji would be above.

Both case Sanji would be above EOW Luffy
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Kata > post WCI Luffy
Clear as day
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Yep, G5 Luffy is most definitely stronger than Kaido.

Luffy was above all those guys you listed when he fought them, Doflamingo literally couldn't even compete with G4, all he could do was stall it out, and Cracker did the same by hiding behind his biscuit soldiers, basically it's matchup, not them being stronger.

The point of Wano was Luffy surpassing Kaido, again, this is stated multiple times.

We know what Luffy is capable of when he's going all out though as we saw it against Kaido, Kizaru having more strength than what he showed is just headcanon.

He is.

As I said, even if Sanji is around Kizaru level after being Ryokugyu, that's still below EOW Luffy.

Post-WCI Luffy >= Katakuri who is one of the stronger YC1, that makes Luffy solid YC1 level.
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Sentinel said:
So Luffy barely won against Katakuri - with many BS factors such as Katakuri injuring himself, Luffy fleeing mid battle or eating Kata's mochi to regain power - and he's solid YC1 level but if Sanji overwhelmingly destroys a YC2 with his PU, he's YC1.5? How does that even work?

At least Queen has feats, Smoothie is still completely featless and useless. He's also extremely tanky.
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And why did Katakuri injure himself? Is it because he only destroyed a chunk of Luffy's stomach because Flampe assisted him? Katakuri was just making it fair in the sense of a 1v1, as Luffy would never have gotten injured like that if not for Flame.

Katakuri also ate.

Sanji doesn't overwhelmingly destroy Queen in a fresh fight, he'd win sure, but high diff at the minimum assuming he starts with IJ.
 
grey matter

grey matter

‎
#189
#189
Sanji will 100% be a top tier EoS. This was obvious even before Gaban, Gaban merely cemented it for good.

Sanji's strength isn't the issue.
I am not a fan of Sanji getting it due to the events in Baratie. Plus, he's far less stubborn/unreasonable than knuckleheads like Luffy/Zoro (at least when he isn't simping lol)

Sanji doesn't need advanced conqueror to be a top tier either. By the time his powers fully develop, it will look like he has a mythical zoan DF. Top tier DFs can make characters top tier without conqueror's haki (like most admirals, BB).
But I think it's more likely than not, that Oda gives him conqueror's haki
 
RayanOO

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
‎
#190
#190
SkySanji said:
Post-WCI Luffy >= Katakuri who is one of the stronger YC1, that makes Luffy solid YC1 level.
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Nope
Luffy post WCI was weaker
Clear as day


SkySanji said:
As I said, even if Sanji is around Kizaru level after being Ryokugyu, that's still below EOW Luffy.
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nope


SkySanji said:
We know what Luffy is capable of when he's going all out though as we saw it against Kaido, Kizaru having more strength than what he showed is just headcanon.
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Luffy not going all out is headcanon too if we go that route

Kizaru was nerfed clearly and it was officially stated that Kizaru fed Luffy


SkySanji said:
Luffy was above all those guys you listed when he fought them,
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Nope


SkySanji said:
Doflamingo literally couldn't even compete with G4, all he could do was stall it out, and Cracker did the same by hiding behind his biscuit soldiers, basically it's matchup, not them being stronger.
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In the end both fighter would have outlasted Luffy and Luffy was or would have been at their mercy. It’s not being stronger than his opponents.




SkySanji said:
Yep, G5 Luffy is most definitely stronger than Kaido.
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Fresh Kaido
Don’t think so
 
SkySanji

SkySanji

‎
#192
#192
RayanOO said:
Nope
Luffy post WCI was weaker
Clear as day

nope

Luffy not going all out is headcanon too if we go that route

Kizaru was nerfed clearly and it was officially stated that Kizaru fed Luffy

Nope

In the end both fighter would have outlasted Luffy and Luffy was or would have been at their mercy. It’s not being stronger than his opponents.

Fresh Kaido
Don’t think so
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Yes.

He's stronger.

It's not headcanon, it's very easy to compare Luffy vs Kaido to Luffy vs Kizaru, Luffy was nowhere close to going all out in the latter compared to the former.

So what if he fed Luffy lmao, that was when Luffy was gassed out from his timelimit.

Outlasting isn't being stronger though.

Yes 100% Kaido vs 100% Luffy, Kaido wins but Luffy is stronger.
 
RayanOO

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
‎
#193
#193
SkySanji said:
Outlasting isn't being stronger though.
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Yes it is

at the end of the day the one who can beat the other is the stronger fighter

even if the peak of the loser is greater, overall the one losing the fight would be him
And as such he is overall weaker
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SkySanji said:
Yes 100% Kaido vs 100% Luffy, Kaido wins but Luffy is stronger.
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Same as above
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SkySanji said:
So what if he fed Luffy lmao, that was when Luffy was gassed out from his timelimit.
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It shows Kiz conflict
It shows that Kiz was also pretending to be completely down

It shows that Luffy didn’t really beat him at all
 
SkySanji

SkySanji

‎
#195
#195
RayanOO said:
Yes it is

at the end of the day the one who can beat the other is the stronger fighter

even if the peak of the loser is greater, overall the one losing the fight would be him
And as such he is overall weaker
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Same as above
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It shows Kiz conflict
It shows that Kiz was also pretending to be completely down

It shows that Luffy didn’t really beat him at all
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No, the stronger character can lose to a weaker character through matchup/circumstance

Okay but even if Kizaru was nerfed, we have no idea by how much so it is just headcanon, whereas we can clearly compare how much nerfed Luffy was by looking at his fight with Kaido.
 
DonWick

DonWick

‎
#196
#196
Sentinel said:
Sanji obliterated a 1.3 billion pirate with his tech power up to the point the latter couldn't even perceive him - all of that without advanced levels of Haki.

So no, ACoC would put Sanji on a considerable higher level than you're anticipating him to be.

Furthermore, since Gaban got confirmed to be another old legend like Ray, your downplay attempts are basically sealed. Sanji will AT LEAST end up as a top tier and at best ending up stronger than some emperors, unless you believe EoS Sanji cannot surpass End of Wano Luffy.
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Yeah he not reaching end of Wano Luffy level.
 
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