Versus Battle Yujikuna vs Gojo

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#21
FFS Hakari who is physically stronger than Yuta in durability and endurance threw up from a base punch from Gojo, you think Yuji is tanking it? no.
Nobody is saying that Yuji can tank a punch from Gojo

But we are saying that Yuji + Sukuna huge CE can tank à Gojo punch better than Megumi + Sukuna huge CE
 

MUUGEN

呪のろいの王
#22
Nobody is saying that Yuji can tank a punch from Gojo

But we are saying that Yuji + Sukuna huge CE can tank à Gojo punch better than Megumi + Sukuna huge CE
no he can not its all the same megumi has taken hits from Toji who deemed him the strongest after a special grade was killed, while Naobito, Maki and Nanami were around, took a hit from Mahoraga and even fought Sukuna and you all think Yuji is far superior to Megumi and that his body will make a difference no it will no.

the body/vessel doesn't matter here. Yuji looked like a toy compared to Yuta and Hakaris basic punches were overly bearing for Yuji.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#23
no he can not its all the same megumi has taken hits from Toji who deemed him the strongest after a special grade was killed, while Naobito, Maki and Nanami were around, took a hit from Mahoraga and even fought Sukuna and you all think Yuji is far superior to Megumi and that his body will make a difference no it will no.

the body/vessel doesn't matter here. Yuji looked like a toy compared to Yuta and Hakaris basic punches were overly bearing for Yuji.
Megumi can be as strong as he wants with CE reinforcements but base vs base you can’t tell me than Megumi is tougher and stronger and faster than a superhuman like Yuji. It’s just no true.

Megumi was strong but it has no link with his natural toughness.


the body/vessel doesn't matter here. Yuji looked like a toy compared to Yuta and Hakaris basic punches were overly bearing for Yuji.
Bad exemple lol, Yuji without protecting himself was taking head on Hakari reinforced hits. If it doesn’t tell you he has unnatural durability I don’t know.

Here the chap if you want : https://tcbscans.com/chapters/57/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-157-review-1688065290
 

MUUGEN

呪のろいの王
#24
Megumi can be as strong as he wants with CE reinforcements but base vs base you can’t tell me than Megumi is tougher and stronger and faster than a superhuman like Yuji. It’s just no true.

Megumi was strong but it has no link with his natural toughness.



Bad exemple lol, Yuji without protecting himself was taking head on Hakari reinforced hits. If it doesn’t tell you he has unnatural durability I don’t know.

Here the chap if you want : https://tcbscans.com/chapters/57/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-157-review-1688065290
https://tcbscans.com/chapters/1847/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-9-review-1688065291
heres the chapter of Megumi tnaking multiple hits from Yujikuna...
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#25

MUUGEN

呪のろいの王
#26
lol yeah sure, second or third page Sukuna is already saying that yuji is tougher than normal humans

And Megumi was reinforcing his body with CE, and it was 2 fingers Sukuna lol. Here we are talking about base guys. CE is irrelevant given its will be Sukuna CE in both cases.
so Yuji this entire time hasn't been using CE everytime he fought, roight....
Post automatically merged:

#agenda
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
#27
Feats, portrayal, narrative, all favour Satoru Gojo and drastically. Sukuna is out here risking his life and riding on that Mahoraga train, implying he simply has no counter to infinity. From what we have now, Gojo busts his ass. I assume the morals are off here as well, so Gojo can just go for the kill.

The only sliver of hope for Sukuna that can make this at least debatable is if OPEN can bypass infinity, but it's practically confirmed it can't. Otherwise, like I mentioned in my thread, either Sukuna is a total retard, or OPEN cannot bypass infinity. Or Gege is saving it for shock value, which is dumb but I can't discard it yet. But from what we have now, Gojo is the clear winner.



@RayanOO @ConquistadoR I don't think that works like that in JJK. Remember, the body is the soul and the soul is the body. In my opinion, reincarnated sorcerers like Sukuna, Kashimo, Ryu, etc etc, are all as physically strong, fast, durable, and so on as they were in their original forms. Because their bodies override the body information of their vessels. They don't get add ons or detractors. Remember when that granny summoned Toji? He was as strong as the Toji in his own body even though it was the body of some rando kid. Likewise are we gonna claim that Yorozu is multiple times stronger or something cuz the body of a Heian era sorcerer>>the body of a girl who has never been in a fight in her life and was in a coma moments ago?

My point being that whether Sukuna, Kashimo, Yorozu etc reincarnate in Yuji, Megumi, Panda, Granny Ogami, or whoever, if they manage to take control they override the vessels' body with their own. And it becomes as physically strong, fast, durable, etc as their original body was, no more no less irrespective of the vessel.
 
#28
Feats, portrayal, narrative, all favour Satoru Gojo and drastically. Sukuna is out here risking his life and riding on that Mahoraga train, implying he simply has no counter to infinity. From what we have now, Gojo busts his ass. I assume the morals are off here as well, so Gojo can just go for the kill.

The only sliver of hope for Sukuna that can make this at least debatable is if OPEN can bypass infinity, but it's practically confirmed it can't. Otherwise, like I mentioned in my thread, either Sukuna is a total retard, or OPEN cannot bypass infinity. Or Gege is saving it for shock value, which is dumb but I can't discard it yet. But from what we have now, Gojo is the clear winner.



@RayanOO @ConquistadoR I don't think that works like that in JJK. Remember, the body is the soul and the soul is the body. In my opinion, reincarnated sorcerers like Sukuna, Kashimo, Ryu, etc etc, are all as physically strong, fast, durable, and so on as they were in their original forms. Because their bodies override the body information of their vessels. They don't get add ons or detractors. Remember when that granny summoned Toji? He was as strong as the Toji in his own body even though it was the body of some rando kid. Likewise are we gonna claim that Yorozu is multiple times stronger or something cuz the body of a Heian era sorcerer>>the body of a girl who has never been in a fight in her life and was in a coma moments ago?

My point being that whether Sukuna, Kashimo, Yorozu etc reincarnate in Yuji, Megumi, Panda, Granny Ogami, or whoever, if they manage to take control they override the vessels' body with their own. And it becomes as physically strong, fast, durable, etc as their original body was, no more no less irrespective of the vessel.
I also don’t buy reincarnated people being weaker.

To me the interesting point is what/who exactly Yuuji is and how that could potentially affect Sukuna’s abilities, not his physical attributes since they’re probably negligible.
 
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MUUGEN

呪のろいの王
#29
Feats, portrayal, narrative, all favour Satoru Gojo and drastically. Sukuna is out here risking his life and riding on that Mahoraga train, implying he simply has no counter to infinity. From what we have now, Gojo busts his ass. I assume the morals are off here as well, so Gojo can just go for the kill.

The only sliver of hope for Sukuna that can make this at least debatable is if OPEN can bypass infinity, but it's practically confirmed it can't. Otherwise, like I mentioned in my thread, either Sukuna is a total retard, or OPEN cannot bypass infinity. Or Gege is saving it for shock value, which is dumb but I can't discard it yet. But from what we have now, Gojo is the clear winner.



@RayanOO @ConquistadoR I don't think that works like that in JJK. Remember, the body is the soul and the soul is the body. In my opinion, reincarnated sorcerers like Sukuna, Kashimo, Ryu, etc etc, are all as physically strong, fast, durable, and so on as they were in their original forms. Because their bodies override the body information of their vessels. They don't get add ons or detractors. Remember when that granny summoned Toji? He was as strong as the Toji in his own body even though it was the body of some rando kid. Likewise are we gonna claim that Yorozu is multiple times stronger or something cuz the body of a Heian era sorcerer>>the body of a girl who has never been in a fight in her life and was in a coma moments ago?

My point being that whether Sukuna, Kashimo, Yorozu etc reincarnate in Yuji, Megumi, Panda, Granny Ogami, or whoever, if they manage to take control they override the vessels' body with their own. And it becomes as physically strong, fast, durable, etc as their original body was, no more no less irrespective of the vessel.
out of all the peeps Light the only one who understands it.
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#30
don't think that works like that in JJK. Remember, the body is the soul and the soul is the body. In my opinion, reincarnated sorcerers like Sukuna, Kashimo, Ryu, etc etc, are all as physically strong, fast, durable, and so on as they were in their original forms. Because their bodies override the body information of their vessels. They don't get add ons or detractors. Remember when that granny summoned Toji? He was as strong as the Toji in his own body even though it was the body of some rando kid. Likewise are we gonna claim that Yorozu is multiple times stronger or something cuz the body of a Heian era sorcerer>>the body of a girl who has never been in a fight in her life and was in a coma moments ago?

My point being that whether Sukuna, Kashimo, Yorozu etc reincarnate in Yuji, Megumi, Panda, Granny Ogami, or whoever, if they manage to take control they override the vessels' body with their own. And it becomes as physically strong, fast, durable, etc as their original body was, no more no less irrespective of the vessel.
Facts.

This is what makes the most sense to me. Narratively it makes no sense that the Reincarnated Sorcerors are weaker than their Primes, to take that confusion away - Gege simply gave them the ability to transform back into their original forms at will.
 
#31
Which version of Gojo is this? Before Prison Realm or current?

Before Prison Realm: Sukuna wins the Domain battle due to Gojo not being able to make his Domain strong enough to Malevolent Shrine’s Open Barrier.

After Prison Realm: Gojo wins.

Heian Era Sukuna is completely unknown. We don’t know what those tools do if they had any game-changing properties.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
#32
To me the interesting point is what/who exactly Yuuki is and how that could potentially affect Sukuna’s abilities, not his physical attributes since they’re probably negligible.
Well I previously theorized on Sukuna's origin and what Yuji can be.


Searching for stuff online led me to some posts and this book that is apparently used by Gege to model Sukuna on. And in there there was an excerpt about Sukuna and his origin.

It basically went like this

Sukuna used to have a twin. Siamese twin to be precise. But he ate him. It can be just an identical twin as well, like Mai and Maki, but would fit more with Siamese ngl.

A Siamese twin was born to a poor family, who later sold them to a freak show. One day, a cult leader named Mononobe Tengoku purchased several malformed humans, including the Siamese twins from the freak show. Mononobe was fascinated by the twins and kept them in a room without food or water until one of the twins killed and ate the other. Mononobe then attached the arms of the deceased twin to the surviving twin and half of their face. The resulting creature was named Ryomen Sukuna.

That will be Sukuna's origin. He was a nobody, a freak, sold to the circus, and ate his brother. That's how he got the appetite for eating humans in the first place.


Now the origin doesn't have to be the exact same as the above. A more interesting proposal for me is that Sukuna as he is now is the result of the first culling game. The circus=culling game, the cult leader=Kenjaku/Tengen

Sukuna and his twin were in the first culling game and Sukuna was forced to eat his brother for an unknown reason thus far. Probably to win the game or something akin to that.


It's possible that Yuji is a descendant of Sukuna's brother. Gege said in a fanbook Sukuna had no wives or children, but Yuji's entire family looks like Sukuna lol. It's possible they are descendent from him brother's side.



As far as Yuji goes, he could end up being a descendant or another idea I had. And that is that Yuji is Sukuna's twin. That is Yuji is made up of the remnants of Sukuna's twin. Or the other half of Sukuna.


Through Mai and Maki Zenin we see how CT/CE/Jujutsu treats identical twins. And I do not think this was a plot just for the two of them but rather for the wider scope of the series.

Yuji and Sukuna no matter how you look at it look quite similar.


Sukuna comments on Yuji being from that time

Yuji's physicals are on a level of their own. Kinda like the Heavenly restricted people.


Why does Sukuna think Kenjaku does the grossest things?

Cuz Kenjaku used the remnants of Sukuna's own twin to create a vessel that can suppress Sukuna.

Why can Yuji do it?
Why does Yuji have no CT?
Why do Yuji and Sukuna look so much alike?
Why did Sukuna call Yuji a guy from that time?
Why is that gross to Sukuna?

Cuz Yuji is his twin, in essence. :endthis:


Sukuna - Mai in this context, aka got the cursed technique
Yuji - Maki in this context, aka got the heavenly physicals


Upon Sukuna assimilating and most likely consuming his twin, he evolved to the levels he is now, just like when Maki lost Mai she evolved further.




out of all the peeps Light the only one who understands it.



Facts.

This is what makes the most sense to me. Narratively it makes no sense that the Reincarnated Sorcerors are weaker than their Primes, to take that confusion away - Gege simply gave them the ability to transform back into their original forms at will.
Yaeh it makes the most sense to me as well. Otherwise don't really see the point if they are all weaker and stuff lol.
 
#33
Well I previously theorized on Sukuna's origin and what Yuji can be.


Searching for stuff online led me to some posts and this book that is apparently used by Gege to model Sukuna on. And in there there was an excerpt about Sukuna and his origin.

It basically went like this

Sukuna used to have a twin. Siamese twin to be precise. But he ate him. It can be just an identical twin as well, like Mai and Maki, but would fit more with Siamese ngl.

A Siamese twin was born to a poor family, who later sold them to a freak show. One day, a cult leader named Mononobe Tengoku purchased several malformed humans, including the Siamese twins from the freak show. Mononobe was fascinated by the twins and kept them in a room without food or water until one of the twins killed and ate the other. Mononobe then attached the arms of the deceased twin to the surviving twin and half of their face. The resulting creature was named Ryomen Sukuna.

That will be Sukuna's origin. He was a nobody, a freak, sold to the circus, and ate his brother. That's how he got the appetite for eating humans in the first place.


Now the origin doesn't have to be the exact same as the above. A more interesting proposal for me is that Sukuna as he is now is the result of the first culling game. The circus=culling game, the cult leader=Kenjaku/Tengen

Sukuna and his twin were in the first culling game and Sukuna was forced to eat his brother for an unknown reason thus far. Probably to win the game or something akin to that.


It's possible that Yuji is a descendant of Sukuna's brother. Gege said in a fanbook Sukuna had no wives or children, but Yuji's entire family looks like Sukuna lol. It's possible they are descendent from him brother's side.



As far as Yuji goes, he could end up being a descendant or another idea I had. And that is that Yuji is Sukuna's twin. That is Yuji is made up of the remnants of Sukuna's twin. Or the other half of Sukuna.


Through Mai and Maki Zenin we see how CT/CE/Jujutsu treats identical twins. And I do not think this was a plot just for the two of them but rather for the wider scope of the series.

Yuji and Sukuna no matter how you look at it look quite similar.


Sukuna comments on Yuji being from that time

Yuji's physicals are on a level of their own. Kinda like the Heavenly restricted people.


Why does Sukuna think Kenjaku does the grossest things?

Cuz Kenjaku used the remnants of Sukuna's own twin to create a vessel that can suppress Sukuna.

Why can Yuji do it?
Why does Yuji have no CT?
Why do Yuji and Sukuna look so much alike?
Why did Sukuna call Yuji a guy from that time?
Why is that gross to Sukuna?

Cuz Yuji is his twin, in essence. :endthis:


Sukuna - Mai in this context, aka got the cursed technique
Yuji - Maki in this context, aka got the heavenly physicals


Upon Sukuna assimilating and most likely consuming his twin, he evolved to the levels he is now, just like when Maki lost Mai she evolved further.









Yaeh it makes the most sense to me as well. Otherwise don't really see the point if they are all weaker and stuff lol.
The Yuuji connection is also why I don’t see Sukuna losing besides maybe losing Megumi and 10 shadows.

Gojo’s story is heavily tied up with Toji and Megumi. If he saves Megumi he’ll have effectively kept his promise to Toji.

But on the flip side Yuuji/Sukuna stuff needs to be explored.

So probably Gojo loses but crippled Sukuna and/or removes Megumi from him.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#34
don't think that works like that in JJK. Remember, the body is the soul and the soul is the body. In my opinion, reincarnated sorcerers like Sukuna, Kashimo, Ryu, etc etc, are all as physically strong, fast, durable, and so on as they were in their original forms. Because their bodies override the body information of their vessels. They don't get add ons or detractors. Remember when that granny summoned Toji? He was as strong as the Toji in his own body even though it was the body of some rando kid. Likewise are we gonna claim that Yorozu is multiple times stronger or something cuz the body of a Heian era sorcerer>>the body of a girl who has never been in a fight in her life and was in a coma moments ago?

My point being that whether Sukuna, Kashimo, Yorozu etc reincarnate in Yuji, Megumi, Panda, Granny Ogami, or whoever, if they manage to take control they override the vessels' body with their own. And it becomes as physically strong, fast, durable, etc as their original body was, no more no less irrespective of the vessel.
I agree on the principle

Sukuna soul is already monstrously strong and would make anyone strong and whatever the vessel.

But I disagree with one thing.

I don’t think the bodies doesn’t matter at all

Kenjaku for reincarnating sorcerers in the culling game put curse objects into people but also put seals on them and with idle transformation he strengthened the bodies to prepare them to be vessels



So no « normal » bodies could be the vessels of past sorcerers without being prepared

And also Ryu, Uro or even Kashimo had all « normal » bodies. They were all trained of course likely strong by themselves even without CE but they were not Yuji.

Yuji seems to be the strongest human physically : the fastest, the toughest and the strongest. Obviously without CE involved.

Yuji is a straight up superhuman physically. Without CE, with nothing else he can already fight curses and smack them around (low levels obviously).

Being in Yuji body and being in any other human body is quite different.

For the other reincarnated sorcerers : between the vessels being prepared for them, having their CE back and the power of their soul I totally think they were as strong as before with no drawbacks at all.

And about Toji reincarnation : They did summon his body, so it was Toji body all along, but his body was so strong that it destroyed the soul of the shapeshifter


 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
#35
Kenjaku for reincarnating sorcerers in the culling game put curse objects into people but also put seals on them and with idle transformation he strengthened the bodies to prepare them to be vessels
Those cursed objects are the souls of the reincarnated sorcerers. Angel says it. Idle attacks their souls. Kenjaku cannot make their bodies much superior to what they are or where. And we haven't seen any sorcerer complain about it. Hell Sukuna never said anything about how he is stronger in Yuji's body either.


So no « normal » bodies could be the vessels of past sorcerers without being prepared
The bodies were prepared by having them ingest it. You can't just become a vessel. They say such people are one in a million when Yuji eats the finger.


And also Ryu, Uro or even Kashimo had all « normal » bodies. They were all trained of course likely strong by themselves even without CE but they were not Yuji.
Define normal bodies. Kashimo is fighting without a CT. His physicals are on a level of their own lol.


Yuji seems to be the strongest human physically : the fastest, the toughest and the strongest. Obviously without CE involved.
No lol. His speed is nothing noteworthy. He was getting shredded by 10 percent cleave. He's not the strongest either lol.


Yuji is a straight up superhuman physically. Without CE, with nothing else he can already fight curses and smack them around (low levels obviously).
Yeah but those are low levels lol. Gojo can exorcise high level curses with bare punches, even without blue. Toji and Maki are superior to Yuji too. No CE.


And about Toji reincarnation : They did summon his body, so it was Toji body all along, but his body was so strong that it destroyed the soul of the shapeshifter
Yeah his body took over. Which is what I said. Look at what Granny says. I didn't summon the soul precisely because of that. Implying that having the soul can make it take over the body. Thus again, the vessel is there merely as something to contain the essence. After that it becomes you.

Sukuna can switch his forms any time he wants like he says. How would he be able to do that if it weren't for his body?


Sukuna never once said wow I was stronger in that brat's body, could move faster, etc etc.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#36
No lol. His speed is nothing noteworthy. He was getting shredded by 10 percent cleave. He's not the strongest either lol.
?? So without any CE reinforcements you don’t think Yuji is physically the toughest human ? Lol we are obviously talking without CE reinforcement (outside of Maki/Toji)

Just base body
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Define normal bodies. Kashimo is fighting without a CT. His physicals are on a level of their own lol
But he is using CE to reinforce his body

His base body is weaker than Yuji base body
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Yeah his body took over. Which is what I said. Look at what Granny says. I didn't summon the soul precisely because of that. Implying that having the soul can make it take over the body. Thus again, the vessel is there merely as something to contain the essence. After that it becomes you.
They summoned his body so obviously the body was as hard as before

because it was Toji body
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Gojo can exorcise high level curses with bare punches, even without blue. Toji and Maki are superior to Yuji too. No CE.
Yeah Maki and Toji with HR are superhuman too

But Gojo is a regular human without any CE or any CT maki and Toji are much more than him
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Those cursed objects are the souls of the reincarnated sorcerers. Angel says it. Idle attacks their souls. Kenjaku cannot make their bodies much superior to what they are or where. And we haven't seen any sorcerer complain about it. Hell Sukuna never said anything about how he is stronger in Yuji's body either.
Kenjaku put some curse object that were part of the former sorcerer yeah obviously, but beforehand he said he strengthened their body
 
#38
This is not as clearcut as many people think.

If Sukuna was not in megumi's body, he approaches the fight very differently.



He wouldn't be restricted inside the domain clashes

He would focus on destroying Gojo's domains as efficiently as possible, instead of adapting

It would turn into a battle of attrition, where it's hard to say who actually wins



People also forget that without Gojo's experience inside of prison realm, that he basically has no means to counteract Sukuna's domain, besides trying to just outlast Sukuna until he runs out of CE

People ALSO forget the only reason Gojo ever landed Unlimited Void on Sukuna was because Sukuna was focusing on adapting, and by extent, restricting himself from using his full capabilities and not destroying the domain as quickly as possible. This allowed Gojo to damage him inside the mini domain clash, which Sukuna had to heal, which allowed Gojo to launch his domain just before Sukuna's.

None of that happens if he's in Yuji's body.

I also suspect that part of the reason why we DIDNT see Sukuna in Yuji's body vs Gojo, is that the fight would be much more boring
 
#40
I agree on the principle

Sukuna soul is already monstrously strong and would make anyone strong and whatever the vessel.

But I disagree with one thing.

I don’t think the bodies doesn’t matter at all

Kenjaku for reincarnating sorcerers in the culling game put curse objects into people but also put seals on them and with idle transformation he strengthened the bodies to prepare them to be vessels



So no « normal » bodies could be the vessels of past sorcerers without being prepared

And also Ryu, Uro or even Kashimo had all « normal » bodies. They were all trained of course likely strong by themselves even without CE but they were not Yuji.

Yuji seems to be the strongest human physically : the fastest, the toughest and the strongest. Obviously without CE involved.

Yuji is a straight up superhuman physically. Without CE, with nothing else he can already fight curses and smack them around (low levels obviously).

Being in Yuji body and being in any other human body is quite different.

For the other reincarnated sorcerers : between the vessels being prepared for them, having their CE back and the power of their soul I totally think they were as strong as before with no drawbacks at all.

And about Toji reincarnation : They did summon his body, so it was Toji body all along, but his body was so strong that it destroyed the soul of the shapeshifter


This is correct.
Kenjaku modified the reincarnated culling game players vessel, not the same case for Megumi as Sukuna vessel.

And the Toji case shows that there’s a clear difference between soul and body, having the soul doesn’t mean having the same physical body.

Yujikuna will be stronger h2h and more durable compare to Megumi version, he will definitely last longer than 3 min in those mini domain clashes, which will cause Gojo’s domain to break first, and Sukuna doing damage to Gojo for whatever extra time Gojo needs to break MS. This will force Gojo to RCT his wound as well, the 0.01s delay won’t happen. In worst case for Gojo, he will come out each mini domain clash in worse condition than Sukuna.

However Yujikuna can’t afford to get hit by Unlimited Void. Sukuna will approach this fight very differently, and I’d say we don’t have enough information on how this will play out.

There are win conditions for both sides:
For Gojo it will be landing UV.
For Sukuna it will be winning every Domain Clash or outlast Gojo.

I do think Megukuna is a bit stronger than Yujikuna overall though. Having a CT that rivals or even counters Limitless, is better for this fight than physical stats boost.
And Megukuna > Gojo, so this doesn’t really solve the mystery of Yujikuna vs Gojo.
 
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