Zhao’s Guardian Deity, Great General Kochou: Power Level Analysis
- Thread starter Elder Lee Hung
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Boi, this Gokei slander will not stand. 
For the first post, okay, I'll acknowledge that Gokei > Reiou. Better martial strength, leadership and intelligence. But, Reiou is more dangerous than Gokei which I'm not sure can be used as an argument for Reiou > Gokei since Kanki is more dangerous than Ousen but Ousen is definitely > Kanki as a general.
And besides, Ouki doesn't know that Reiou is still alive.
Second post, fair enough. Dakan Plains is one of the very early arcs of Kingdom so I don't remember much. So you are probably saying the truth.
I remember that Duke didn't actually do shit against Gokei until like near the end of the campaign where he took charge. Gokei is stronger than I expected then.
Ren Pa was on the backfoot, i.e. losing the war.
3GHs/6GGs themselves are not nation states.
No one with a brain will weigh what has been lost versus what has been gained and think Zhao has come ahead. They've lost enormous swathes of territory, key cities and castles, 100s of thousands of troops and many talented generals and assets.
The balance sheet reads loud and clear that Qin have fucked Zhao in the dirt, thanks to their 6GGs, despite the best efforts of the 3GHs.
btw the nature of Ko Shou's death hasn't been confirmed in the manga, so the count is still 1-3.
3GHs/6GGs themselves are not nation states.
No one with a brain will weigh what has been lost versus what has been gained and think Zhao has come ahead. They've lost enormous swathes of territory, key cities and castles, 100s of thousands of troops and many talented generals and assets.
The balance sheet reads loud and clear that Qin have fucked Zhao in the dirt, thanks to their 6GGs, despite the best efforts of the 3GHs.
btw the nature of Ko Shou's death hasn't been confirmed in the manga, so the count is still 1-3.
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Lmfao what? It was a stalemate. Neither party was winning despite 2 Q6 ganging up on Renpa alone.
No one with a brain would conflate the state of Zhao’s losses with the actions of the 3GHs when Zhao is known for fucking itself in the ass despite the efforts of the 3GH. lol
Are you literally stupid?
You just going to ignore the 4 Qin 6 we’ve seen killed by the 3GH huh? Lol
No one with a brain would conflate the state of Zhao’s losses with the actions of the 3GHs when Zhao is known for fucking itself in the ass despite the efforts of the 3GH. lol
Are you literally stupid?
You just going to ignore the 4 Qin 6 we’ve seen killed by the 3GH huh? Lol
Go Kei likely would've beaten Duke Hyou if not for Ou Ki's assistance. Rei Ou was on par with GHM. Gai Mou is one of the strongest martial generals seen and has barely even tried. Earl Shi was a Q3 tier talent and GG in his 20s.
If you know your history, you know Ren Pa was being pushed back into Zhao territory where that stalemate was held, which effectively amounted to covering up on the ground and putting feet up to minimise the belt. Zhao inevitably got the belt, didn't they?
Since you're counting Hou Ken as an actual general, where the fuck do you come off bitching about a 2v1 when it was 2 3GHs vs 1 6GG at Bayou? SBS wasn't there personally when Kan Ki lost but his army certainly was.
The wins and losses are produced by 6GGs and 3GHs.
You don't like the results because they're devastating for your argument. Cry it out and get over it.
You have room temperature IQ. Save it.
Qin have lost 3 6GGs in the manga, not 4. If you find counting difficult, use your fingers.
If you know your history, you know Ren Pa was being pushed back into Zhao territory where that stalemate was held, which effectively amounted to covering up on the ground and putting feet up to minimise the belt. Zhao inevitably got the belt, didn't they?
Since you're counting Hou Ken as an actual general, where the fuck do you come off bitching about a 2v1 when it was 2 3GHs vs 1 6GG at Bayou? SBS wasn't there personally when Kan Ki lost but his army certainly was.
The wins and losses are produced by 6GGs and 3GHs.
You don't like the results because they're devastating for your argument. Cry it out and get over it.
You have room temperature IQ. Save it.
Qin have lost 3 6GGs in the manga, not 4. If you find counting difficult, use your fingers.
Even Gyou'Un who isn't even a Zhao 3 has better portrayal than anyone of the 7 Wei, Kochou.
Go Kei was really impressive something that GekiShin Received too and we see what happened, Duke was monstrous, but him wasn't a Qin 6. Anyone in this manga got portrayal at Qin 6, looks to Ji aga being equal strength wise to Mou Bu.
Go Kei was really impressive something that GekiShin Received too and we see what happened, Duke was monstrous, but him wasn't a Qin 6. Anyone in this manga got portrayal at Qin 6, looks to Ji aga being equal strength wise to Mou Bu.
We are discussing the manga, not history. But please, anything you can do to distract from how stupid your argument is lmfao.
Um yes he was an actual formal Three Great Heaven, in case you didn’t realize it
I don’t even need to count Bayou. Lol
Houken killed Kyou
Houken killed Duke Hyou
Riboku killed Kanki
Ignore the interference of the Zhao court because it destroys your entire narrative that any Qin 6 could ever defeat any 3GH without the Zhao court interfering. lol
“Zhao lose Chouhei therefore Renpa lose Chouhei”
Um yes he was an actual formal Three Great Heaven, in case you didn’t realize it
I don’t even need to count Bayou. Lol
Houken killed Kyou
Houken killed Duke Hyou
Riboku killed Kanki
Ignore the interference of the Zhao court because it destroys your entire narrative that any Qin 6 could ever defeat any 3GH without the Zhao court interfering. lol
“Zhao lose Chouhei therefore Renpa lose Chouhei”
Duke Hyou didn't have the title but he was an equivalent talent, recognised as such by Ou Ki and Ri Boku among others. Go Kei would've likely had the better of him if not for Ou Ki interfering.
GHM regarded Rei Ou's abilities as superior to his own during Choyou, and he was already a worthy opponent for Tou. Gai Mou was really just fucking around and Earl Shi wanted to die, yet both were extremely dangerous after 14 years inside.
For all his experience, Gyou'un wasn't better than the 5K Commanders he faced. 12 years away from battle may have had a lot to do with that, but the WFD spent longer in prison, without the means to train and run drills, so it's not an excuse I'm willing to accept.
Yet you're counting 4 6GG deaths,
I realise you'll ignore anything that doesn't suit your narrative. Including the fact Hou Ken was a figurehead and glorified hitman.
Setting aside the fact Hou Ken wasn't even a figurehead when he killed Kyou or the fact Duke Hyou wasn't a 6GG - it was still 2v1 against Duke Hyou, who had Ri Boku cornered, and it was a 2v1 against against Kan Ki considering a massive Seika Army was there.
Hell, it was 2v1 against Geki Shin of Yan.
You're the only one that's bitching about 2v1s.
Qin wasn't the picture of stability after King Sho died considering their own court was overrun with corruption and factions.
GHM regarded Rei Ou's abilities as superior to his own during Choyou, and he was already a worthy opponent for Tou. Gai Mou was really just fucking around and Earl Shi wanted to die, yet both were extremely dangerous after 14 years inside.
For all his experience, Gyou'un wasn't better than the 5K Commanders he faced. 12 years away from battle may have had a lot to do with that, but the WFD spent longer in prison, without the means to train and run drills, so it's not an excuse I'm willing to accept.
Yet you're counting 4 6GG deaths,
I realise you'll ignore anything that doesn't suit your narrative. Including the fact Hou Ken was a figurehead and glorified hitman.
Setting aside the fact Hou Ken wasn't even a figurehead when he killed Kyou or the fact Duke Hyou wasn't a 6GG - it was still 2v1 against Duke Hyou, who had Ri Boku cornered, and it was a 2v1 against against Kan Ki considering a massive Seika Army was there.
Hell, it was 2v1 against Geki Shin of Yan.
You're the only one that's bitching about 2v1s.
Qin wasn't the picture of stability after King Sho died considering their own court was overrun with corruption and factions.
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Because those 6GG deaths happened…wait for it…
In the actual manga
Did Houken or did Houken not hold the 3GH Rank? Lmfao
You’re so desperate to exclude Houken from this conversation because you know the weakest 3GH still killed multiple Qin 6 members. lol
That’s a really funny way of saying Duke Hyou’s four dozen men were in the center of Riboku’s 40k elites with zero backup lol, but what should I expect from the guy who counts Chouhei as a loss for Renpa despite Renpa not even being in command of the battle when Zhao lost? Lol
By your logic, Akou killed Houken since Shin killed Houken but technically Akou was Shin’s commander before he got taken out in the right wing. Lol
In the actual manga
Did Houken or did Houken not hold the 3GH Rank? Lmfao
You’re so desperate to exclude Houken from this conversation because you know the weakest 3GH still killed multiple Qin 6 members. lol
That’s a really funny way of saying Duke Hyou’s four dozen men were in the center of Riboku’s 40k elites with zero backup lol, but what should I expect from the guy who counts Chouhei as a loss for Renpa despite Renpa not even being in command of the battle when Zhao lost? Lol
By your logic, Akou killed Houken since Shin killed Houken but technically Akou was Shin’s commander before he got taken out in the right wing. Lol
Because those 6GG deaths happened…wait for it…
In the actual manga
In the actual manga
The hypocrisy is crazy, I don't know if you're being dishonest or just this fucking dumb.
It makes no difference to me whether you give a shit about the fact we're talking about the highest levels of generalship - of which Hou Ken possessed none - when the results clearly favour one state's generals over the other.
lmao, this is almost as subtle as just giving up the argument.
You have nothing for an actual rebuttal, lmao.[/QUOTE]
Duke Hyou counts as one of them given he was explicitly said to be on their level. King Shou tried to make him a Qin 6 several times.
I don’t know if you even know what the word “hypocrisy” means lmfao, in what way am I being hypocritical by citing the feats of Houken, a Three Great Heaven, in a conversation about the feats of the Three Great Heavens? In what way is that hypocritical Rumble? Lol
I don’t know if you even know what the word “hypocrisy” means lmfao, in what way am I being hypocritical by citing the feats of Houken, a Three Great Heaven, in a conversation about the feats of the Three Great Heavens? In what way is that hypocritical Rumble? Lol
Did Duke Hyou have the title and the right to wage war freely? No.
By your logic, given how you dickride Gyou'un, he should be counted as well.
Same goes for Ko Chou.
That would make the score go from 1-3 in Zhao's favour to 3-4 in Zhao's favour.
You're so dumb, you argue against yourself without realising it.
By your logic, given how you dickride Gyou'un, he should be counted as well.
Same goes for Ko Chou.
That would make the score go from 1-3 in Zhao's favour to 3-4 in Zhao's favour.
You're so dumb, you argue against yourself without realising it.
Irrelevant because he was explicitly Qin 6 level and was invited to join them. Meaning he is relevant when discussing the level of the Qin 6.
Gyou’Un was never said to be 3GH level. Not once.
Kochou being 3GH level was never even remotely implied so again, not sure what your stupid ass is talking about.
This would actually be your stupid ass logic since you include every loss for Zhao as a loss for the 3GH. Lol
By your logic I could say Mougou, Rokuomi, and Heki are relevant when discussing the Qin 6. Since apparently commanders who were never said to be Qin 6 level count towards discussing the Qin 6 in your mind. Lol
Gyou’Un was never said to be 3GH level. Not once.
Kochou being 3GH level was never even remotely implied so again, not sure what your stupid ass is talking about.
This would actually be your stupid ass logic since you include every loss for Zhao as a loss for the 3GH. Lol
By your logic I could say Mougou, Rokuomi, and Heki are relevant when discussing the Qin 6. Since apparently commanders who were never said to be Qin 6 level count towards discussing the Qin 6 in your mind. Lol
your point? Duke Hyou lacked the mindset of a Qin 6, not the abilities. Gokei lost to a Qin 6 level general who had hype from a literal Qin 6.
We've been over this before, but comparing Ouki praising Gokei to an offhand statement from Sou'ou about Jiaga's strength is a huge logical fallacy. Ouki is far more knowledgable about Gokei and his military history than Sou'Ou is over Moubu's martial power.
Gekishin was hyped up as a monster, but got outplayed by Riboku in every exchange till he discovered the headquarters location, and then got negged by Houken. Ouki hyped up Gokei as a monster, and he proved it by decimating Duke Hyou's army in a single afternoon.
We've been over this before, but comparing Ouki praising Gokei to an offhand statement from Sou'ou about Jiaga's strength is a huge logical fallacy. Ouki is far more knowledgable about Gokei and his military history than Sou'Ou is over Moubu's martial power.
Gekishin was hyped up as a monster, but got outplayed by Riboku in every exchange till he discovered the headquarters location, and then got negged by Houken. Ouki hyped up Gokei as a monster, and he proved it by decimating Duke Hyou's army in a single afternoon.