Powers & Abilities Zoro’s body is “at ease” using CoC without Zoro’s awareness
- Thread starter ImmaIvanoM
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No one in the manga has ever described haki as this… Haki is a separate spiritual power… Like what does Shank’s Wi-Fi haki on Greenbull have to do with “boosting his base stats”… the connection between Haki and Base stats is that Haki uses up your bodily stamina… So if your body is weak, it then cannot handle a certain level of haki use
… what?
Shusui being black blade isn’t what made Zoro fumble his 3 sword attack… He says the reason why he fumbled the attack… It fumbled because he used a more powerful slag with Shusui than his other swords
Zoro cannot fight with a 3 sword style when one sword is taking more power than the other swords… Hence why Enma is extra bad for Zoro… Enma has a haki demand to use it, and then Zoro cannot fight unless he also gives his other two sword the same Haki demand that Enma is taking
What’s written in the manga is Gaban tells Zorp that he needs to control and tame his CoC in order o use it properly. Which is exactly what Rayleigh told Luffy 500 chapters ago.
that’s what’s written in the manga, therefore that’s What’s Going to be Zoro’s “improvement” in the arc… Your argument is that none of what Gaban said matters
King never once says he’s on the verge of dying from using haki… tf are you talking about? Zorp fire to says his haki is what’s going to kill him… Zoro never once says King is any threat to him in the fight
… what?
Shusui being black blade isn’t what made Zoro fumble his 3 sword attack… He says the reason why he fumbled the attack… It fumbled because he used a more powerful slag with Shusui than his other swords
Zoro cannot fight with a 3 sword style when one sword is taking more power than the other swords… Hence why Enma is extra bad for Zoro… Enma has a haki demand to use it, and then Zoro cannot fight unless he also gives his other two sword the same Haki demand that Enma is taking
What’s written in the manga is Gaban tells Zorp that he needs to control and tame his CoC in order o use it properly. Which is exactly what Rayleigh told Luffy 500 chapters ago.
that’s what’s written in the manga, therefore that’s What’s Going to be Zoro’s “improvement” in the arc… Your argument is that none of what Gaban said matters
King never once says he’s on the verge of dying from using haki… tf are you talking about? Zorp fire to says his haki is what’s going to kill him… Zoro never once says King is any threat to him in the fight
You might be onto something here.
Though personally, I believe Oda thinks of haki as a separate "stat" from physical stats.
Even though they are not fully independent stats, as "health" affects both physical stats and haki.
Additionally, raw armament haki can also be increased by training.
Clearly it isn't as simple as "willpower", since I doubt Luffy's or Zoro's willpower increased notable since East Blue, though I think willpower contributes to setting the ceiling of conqueror's or armament haki, provided other conditions remain same.
Though personally, I believe Oda thinks of haki as a separate "stat" from physical stats.
Even though they are not fully independent stats, as "health" affects both physical stats and haki.
Additionally, raw armament haki can also be increased by training.
Clearly it isn't as simple as "willpower", since I doubt Luffy's or Zoro's willpower increased notable since East Blue, though I think willpower contributes to setting the ceiling of conqueror's or armament haki, provided other conditions remain same.
Except that haki bloom is exactly when the body is at their weakest due to an extreme situation. Conqueror when coated on your attacks is a boost just like regular haki. This was clear when Amazon Lily warriors introduced the concept to us.
The whole argument is about old people losing stamina and therefore not being able to use haki. When unconscious Luffy has less stamina that them and no problem using haki. So your argument is invalid.
Shusui has more power because it is a black blade!!!
Show the fucking panel because that line was direct to Luffy not to Zoro
He never said about haki either. He only said about the sword Enma that is nerfing him without any benefits.
Are you going to say that Shank has the strongest CoC without being the strongest physically himself?
The whole argument is about old people losing stamina and therefore not being able to use haki. When unconscious Luffy has less stamina that them and no problem using haki. So your argument is invalid.
Shusui has more power because it is a black blade!!!
Show the fucking panel because that line was direct to Luffy not to Zoro
He never said about haki either. He only said about the sword Enma that is nerfing him without any benefits.
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Are you going to say that Shank has the strongest CoC without being the strongest physically himself?
Then why don’t Df users get constant haki blooms when under seastone since Seastone literally removes their stamina off rip?
haki blooms happen in extreme situations but extreme situations are not “when the body is weakest”… it’s when the body is stressed the most… and stress isn’t weakness
i didnt say old people can’t use haki… I said they can’t use A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF HAKI… my examples were literally Garp and Gaban both saying they have gotten weaker AFTER USING HAKI… So I don’t know where you’re getting that I said old people literally cannot use haki at all… Whitebeard is unique in that he was old AND SICK and that’s why his haki usage was EVEN LOWER than Gaban and Garp
So unconscious Luffy being able to knock fodder out is fine… Unconscious Luffy has some stamina so he can use some haki… Gaban and Garp have some stamina so they can use some haki… that’s fine… isn’t that what I was saying
And if a sword that Wasn’t a black blade also created a more powerful slash than zoro’s other swords… then what? Huh? Then what would happen? Wouldn’t the same problem arise? So is it clear that the problem is the POWER DISTRIBUTION itself… well?
… you mean this?
You think this is Gaban talking to Luffy and not Zoro?
what the fuck are you talking about? What about Enma is a problem if not the haki drain?
haki blooms happen in extreme situations but extreme situations are not “when the body is weakest”… it’s when the body is stressed the most… and stress isn’t weakness
i didnt say old people can’t use haki… I said they can’t use A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF HAKI… my examples were literally Garp and Gaban both saying they have gotten weaker AFTER USING HAKI… So I don’t know where you’re getting that I said old people literally cannot use haki at all… Whitebeard is unique in that he was old AND SICK and that’s why his haki usage was EVEN LOWER than Gaban and Garp
So unconscious Luffy being able to knock fodder out is fine… Unconscious Luffy has some stamina so he can use some haki… Gaban and Garp have some stamina so they can use some haki… that’s fine… isn’t that what I was saying
And if a sword that Wasn’t a black blade also created a more powerful slash than zoro’s other swords… then what? Huh? Then what would happen? Wouldn’t the same problem arise? So is it clear that the problem is the POWER DISTRIBUTION itself… well?
… you mean this?
what the fuck are you talking about? What about Enma is a problem if not the haki drain?
True but what's your point here? Because Luffy's haki bloom after getting knocked out by Kaido at rooftop therefore learning ACoC. His haki bloom during Bajrang Gun (he was initially losing) and he passed out after that for a week.
Like I said Whitebeard's issue was his sickness. Garp and Gaban are just old so they are getting weaker overtime but there is no direct correlation with their haki. They still knows the technique and can use as much as their body can handle. Is just weird how you put it out.
It seems you are saying that they are still strong like their prime but being old doesn't allow them to use their haki to the fullest.
Enma doesn't does that! It only forced Zoro to uses more haki than he wants to. And then consumes his haki. Is nothing but a nerf. Shusui is a power up. Enma is not.
Where he says that Zoro needs to control and tame his CoC? He says that Haki is a power that must be understood and tamed. Zoro doesn't understands but he already tames it.
Dude your point is that Zoro's body can't handle CoC. This is false. Zoro's body can't handle Enma draining his haki.
Like I said Whitebeard's issue was his sickness. Garp and Gaban are just old so they are getting weaker overtime but there is no direct correlation with their haki. They still knows the technique and can use as much as their body can handle. Is just weird how you put it out.
It seems you are saying that they are still strong like their prime but being old doesn't allow them to use their haki to the fullest.
Enma doesn't does that! It only forced Zoro to uses more haki than he wants to. And then consumes his haki. Is nothing but a nerf. Shusui is a power up. Enma is not.
… you mean this?
You think this is Gaban talking to Luffy and not Zoro?
Dude your point is that Zoro's body can't handle CoC. This is false. Zoro's body can't handle Enma draining his haki.
Nothing. You’re the one who brought this up. It has nothing To Do with my original point
No I explicitly said they are not anywhere near their primes… Since Both of them have directl said their attacks are much weaker than their primes
I’m simply explaining why their attacks BY THEIR OWN ADMISSIONS are much weaker… This is the point of my thread… That Haki so willpower so there’s no explanation for why Willpower reduces with Old age… What is explained is that your body gets weaker with Old age and therefore your body cannot use as much haki as you get older
get it? It’s your body that matters… if you body ages, then your haki ability declines from the aging
We saw Zoro try to cut a tree and then cut a cliff by accident
Who told you that Zoro has already “tamed” it? Luffy says Zoro is leaking haki without even keeping and Zoro is apologizing… Why is zoro apologizing for something he can already do?
My point is that when Zoro said The loss of haki was going to kill him, that means that his body cannot handle that amount of haki drain… that’s what Enma does… it drains your haki… Zoro couldn’t handle the amount of CoC that he was using
And yes, “draining haki”=“using haki”
No I explicitly said they are not anywhere near their primes… Since Both of them have directl said their attacks are much weaker than their primes
I’m simply explaining why their attacks BY THEIR OWN ADMISSIONS are much weaker… This is the point of my thread… That Haki so willpower so there’s no explanation for why Willpower reduces with Old age… What is explained is that your body gets weaker with Old age and therefore your body cannot use as much haki as you get older
get it? It’s your body that matters… if you body ages, then your haki ability declines from the aging
We saw Zoro try to cut a tree and then cut a cliff by accident
Who told you that Zoro has already “tamed” it? Luffy says Zoro is leaking haki without even keeping and Zoro is apologizing… Why is zoro apologizing for something he can already do?
My point is that when Zoro said The loss of haki was going to kill him, that means that his body cannot handle that amount of haki drain… that’s what Enma does… it drains your haki… Zoro couldn’t handle the amount of CoC that he was using
And yes, “draining haki”=“using haki”
Your point is that old people can't use haki because they have less stamina just like DF users can't use haki while touching seastones. I just debunked that and you started to cope.
So you say that haki is willpower and that doesn't weakens by age but still claims their haki is weaker because of age? We lack any manga evidence that you need a strong body to use haki. Any kind of haki.
Enma forced him to use more haki he wanted. And it consumed his energy by shrinking his arm in the proccess. Is not like Zoro couldn't cut the cliff without Enma if he wanted.
This has nothing to do with not keeping haki like he was wasting it. Luffy just saying that Zoro clearly has too much CoC on him. And Zoro apologizing for not noticing it. Stop headcannoing.
Your point is wrong. I showed you the manga panel. He never said the loss of haki would kill him. He said the sword would because it drains his energy. Take out Enma from him and he is not having the same problem. Is that simple.
So you say that haki is willpower and that doesn't weakens by age but still claims their haki is weaker because of age? We lack any manga evidence that you need a strong body to use haki. Any kind of haki.
Enma forced him to use more haki he wanted. And it consumed his energy by shrinking his arm in the proccess. Is not like Zoro couldn't cut the cliff without Enma if he wanted.
This has nothing to do with not keeping haki like he was wasting it. Luffy just saying that Zoro clearly has too much CoC on him. And Zoro apologizing for not noticing it. Stop headcannoing.
Your point is wrong. I showed you the manga panel. He never said the loss of haki would kill him. He said the sword would because it drains his energy. Take out Enma from him and he is not having the same problem. Is that simple.
Yes. Gaban statement about zoro’s body getting used to using CoC indicates that there is a direct connection between your body’s capabilities and your haki
this is what explains why Seastone also stops haki users with Dfs from using haki… stamina is required to use Haki… so your bodies condition affects how much haki you can use
Hence why Gaban and Garp say their attacks are much weaker now… Their bodies being weaker has made the amount of Haki they can use less
this is what explains why Seastone also stops haki users with Dfs from using haki… stamina is required to use Haki… so your bodies condition affects how much haki you can use
Hence why Gaban and Garp say their attacks are much weaker now… Their bodies being weaker has made the amount of Haki they can use less
His inner monologue is on ryou/arnament haki though. Zoro doesn’t even know he can use coc haki Zoro going all out with his haki that would kill him is his ryou. In the panel with his inner monologue there is no coc what so ever this means that Zoro himself believes that the excessive ryou alone is enough to kill him. Again lol oden is impressive because he could use Enma with so much armament haki being drained.
First of all, he never specified Ryuo, he just says “haki”
and second of all YOU JUST ANSWERED YOUR OWN ISSUE… He doesn’t know he has CoC… so why would he know to say he’s dying of using coc
I’m saying he’s dying from using CoC BECAUSE HE’S FACTUALLY USING COC… He FACTUALLY IS USING IT… and it’s FACTUALLY KILLING HIM
Your argument only works if you are of the belief that
1. Zoro doesn’t know he has CoC and yet he can isolate the fact that it’s only using Ryuo that’s affecting him
2. For whatever reason, only Ryuo can affect your body from excessive use and supposedly CoC is fine, for some reason you can use CoC endlessly without any stamina limit, somehow
and second of all YOU JUST ANSWERED YOUR OWN ISSUE… He doesn’t know he has CoC… so why would he know to say he’s dying of using coc
I’m saying he’s dying from using CoC BECAUSE HE’S FACTUALLY USING COC… He FACTUALLY IS USING IT… and it’s FACTUALLY KILLING HIM
Your argument only works if you are of the belief that
1. Zoro doesn’t know he has CoC and yet he can isolate the fact that it’s only using Ryuo that’s affecting him
2. For whatever reason, only Ryuo can affect your body from excessive use and supposedly CoC is fine, for some reason you can use CoC endlessly without any stamina limit, somehow