Character Discussion Zoro has the same role as Lucky Roo (combatant)
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ALL the Crew fight & ALL of them need & want to get Stronger so this is nothing new, as i said it's just Journey Requirement to get stronger, it's not their Goal. Zoro's Desire to fight Kaido shows that he doesn't only aim for Swordsmen, he aims for anyone who considers himself Strongest.
Since all the Crew Fight & need to get Stronger, then Oda could have not made the "Fighter" Role & made Zoro the Shipwright or Historian or something. But nope, he only gave him "Fighter" Role & "Strongest" Dream so pls stop switching definitions to match your wishful thinking
No one considered Roger Strongest man, stop changing Facts:
WB was called Strongest Man & Danger wise, he was more Powerful than Roger due to having a DF capable of tilting the whole Oceans.
Shiki told Roger to become his Right Hand Man. Mont d'Or said that even Roger can't escape BM Pirates Army waiting near the Mirror (Which was an Overestimation ofc) but they also said that No One can stop Big Mom (Which Oda later confirmed in SBS that whole Totto Land must flee when BM goes Crazy because no one can stop her) so BMP never believed Roger is more Dangerous than their Mother.
Kaido was also called Strongest Creature & in 1 v 1, always bet on him.
So Roger was never considered & mentioned by anyone to be Stronger than WB, Shiki, BM or Kaido.
He is simply the Man who can Rival them all, survive entire Grand Line & find One Piece & that is what Pirate King means.
And i gave you a list why Luffy fights the Main Villain dude, it's because he is Main Character.
Let me ask you, imagine you created a Main Character & gave him a Stronger First Mate & you want to draw the Main Character crushing the Dreams of Villains, so how do you make sure the First Mate doesn't Fight instead of Main Character?
You obviously have 4 Options:
1. Make Villain a Bad Match Up for Zoro & can only be Fought by Luffy
2. Make Zoro Weakened & Unable to Fight so Luffy has to step in
3. Make Zoro not meet Villain at all & is busy doing something else
4. Make Zoro fight someone Stronger than Main Villain who is a Secondary Character in the Arc
Which is EXACTLY what Oda done in every single Arc. Oda doesn't need to create a Second Crocodile or Second Lucci or Enel ... etc because this isn't about just Action, it's about Story & Oda wants to Portray Luffy as the one who Dreams Bigger & have the most fearsome Ability in the World which is Uniting People & making them Ally with him & Help him. (That's why he is the Next Joy Boy, not the Next Ryuma who was both Strongest Swordsman & Man)
Whole Crew are aimed for the Audience man.
Readers can relate to one of the SHs when they read One Piece, this is what Oda created different than other Shonen, instead of making One Inspiring Character, he made Ten (So far) & each teaches a different lesson
Luffy inspire in Leadership, Friendship & Will to never Give Up & always Smile ... etc
Sanji inspires in Heroism, Chivalry, Kindness, Treasure Food ... etc
Robin inspires in being Mature, Reserved, Treasure History, let Others help ... etc
So what do you think Zoro is made to inspire Readers to?
It's all about Fighting, Getting Stronger, Training, Hard Work, Enduring Damage ... etc
You say Zoro is the Combatant because he doesn't know how to do anything else, so basically he is USELESS, right?
Because all other Straw Hats Fight too, so it's like saying Zoro is Useless
When someone who never read One Piece asks you about Crew Roles, you will tell him:
Sanji cooks & Nami navigates & Chopper heals & Robin studies ... etc & Zoro just fight?
They will obviously ask you, so other Crew Members don't Fight? And you will say No, they all Fight & get Stronger
Then that means Zoro has No Role according to your Logic & everyone who never read One Piece will be confused by your Answer
Zoro's Role means he is Strongest Fighter in the Crew & that is what makes him stand out from the rest just like they all stand out in something.
And plz go read Chapter 01, Luffy himself stated his Goal, it's about Leadership, not being known as Strongest unlike Zoro.
Since all the Crew Fight & need to get Stronger, then Oda could have not made the "Fighter" Role & made Zoro the Shipwright or Historian or something. But nope, he only gave him "Fighter" Role & "Strongest" Dream so pls stop switching definitions to match your wishful thinking
No one considered Roger Strongest man, stop changing Facts:
WB was called Strongest Man & Danger wise, he was more Powerful than Roger due to having a DF capable of tilting the whole Oceans.
Shiki told Roger to become his Right Hand Man. Mont d'Or said that even Roger can't escape BM Pirates Army waiting near the Mirror (Which was an Overestimation ofc) but they also said that No One can stop Big Mom (Which Oda later confirmed in SBS that whole Totto Land must flee when BM goes Crazy because no one can stop her) so BMP never believed Roger is more Dangerous than their Mother.
Kaido was also called Strongest Creature & in 1 v 1, always bet on him.
So Roger was never considered & mentioned by anyone to be Stronger than WB, Shiki, BM or Kaido.
He is simply the Man who can Rival them all, survive entire Grand Line & find One Piece & that is what Pirate King means.
And i gave you a list why Luffy fights the Main Villain dude, it's because he is Main Character.
Let me ask you, imagine you created a Main Character & gave him a Stronger First Mate & you want to draw the Main Character crushing the Dreams of Villains, so how do you make sure the First Mate doesn't Fight instead of Main Character?
You obviously have 4 Options:
1. Make Villain a Bad Match Up for Zoro & can only be Fought by Luffy
2. Make Zoro Weakened & Unable to Fight so Luffy has to step in
3. Make Zoro not meet Villain at all & is busy doing something else
4. Make Zoro fight someone Stronger than Main Villain who is a Secondary Character in the Arc
Which is EXACTLY what Oda done in every single Arc. Oda doesn't need to create a Second Crocodile or Second Lucci or Enel ... etc because this isn't about just Action, it's about Story & Oda wants to Portray Luffy as the one who Dreams Bigger & have the most fearsome Ability in the World which is Uniting People & making them Ally with him & Help him. (That's why he is the Next Joy Boy, not the Next Ryuma who was both Strongest Swordsman & Man)
Whole Crew are aimed for the Audience man.
Readers can relate to one of the SHs when they read One Piece, this is what Oda created different than other Shonen, instead of making One Inspiring Character, he made Ten (So far) & each teaches a different lesson
Luffy inspire in Leadership, Friendship & Will to never Give Up & always Smile ... etc
Sanji inspires in Heroism, Chivalry, Kindness, Treasure Food ... etc
Robin inspires in being Mature, Reserved, Treasure History, let Others help ... etc
So what do you think Zoro is made to inspire Readers to?
It's all about Fighting, Getting Stronger, Training, Hard Work, Enduring Damage ... etc
You say Zoro is the Combatant because he doesn't know how to do anything else, so basically he is USELESS, right?
Because all other Straw Hats Fight too, so it's like saying Zoro is Useless
When someone who never read One Piece asks you about Crew Roles, you will tell him:
Sanji cooks & Nami navigates & Chopper heals & Robin studies ... etc & Zoro just fight?
They will obviously ask you, so other Crew Members don't Fight? And you will say No, they all Fight & get Stronger
Then that means Zoro has No Role according to your Logic & everyone who never read One Piece will be confused by your Answer
Zoro's Role means he is Strongest Fighter in the Crew & that is what makes him stand out from the rest just like they all stand out in something.
And plz go read Chapter 01, Luffy himself stated his Goal, it's about Leadership, not being known as Strongest unlike Zoro.
shanks isn't wss and wsf
mihawk>zoro pre fight against mihawk>shanks with adv coc:cheers::cheers::cheers:
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Just because Luffy is "incompetent" doesn't mean that he can't do it. If there was a target from a far then Luffy would order Usopp to do it because it's more convenient for him to snipes instead of Luffy. If Luffy were to navigate then he would do it but it takes longer for him to do it than Nami would. Etc.
That’s a moot point since Chopper is the ONLY Doctor on tha crew lol, he has 0 competition for that spot. Robin is tha best Archeologist cause she’s tha ONLY one on tha crew, Franky is tha best Shipwright on tha crew cause he’s the ONLY one, Sanji is tha ONLY Cook, Nami is tha ONLY navigator. It’s not like it’s multiple people on tha crew to do these things and they happen to be tha best at it
Long as Law is alive and possess tha Ope Ope no mi, Chopper will be below him
Long as Law is alive and possess tha Ope Ope no mi, Chopper will be below him
Blah, blah, blah.
Luffy's dream isn't explicitly about becoming the strongest but it virtually includes it because he will become the king among kings and surpass the emperors and the admirals, plus being the main character in this manga, the character who gets the definitive versus against the main and strongest villains each arc, the character who will become the new Roger.
A Roger who was indeed the strongest man back then by virtue of Whitebeard being stated as the only person to rival him, not the other way around. Whitebeard's title is irrelevant; he had it before and after Roger, but Roger was still "his king". Don't try to discuss that Roger wasn't the strongest, please, this is a shonen about pirates and Roger was the Pirate King. Even if Whitebeard was 99, Roger is clearly a 100 in Oda's mind; the king of kings, as stated by Chinjao.
Zoro wasn't weakened, nor nerfed, nor unable to fight, nor whatever when he faced Kaku because he wasn't capable of putting a fight against Lucci, hence the very obvious doriki system (unless you actually believe Oda made that explicit hirearchy to lie to us with no proper explanation of its validity). Or when he had to conform with Pica while Luffy took on Doflamingo. And, of course, you are ignoring that getting weakened, fighting before the final versus, facing disadvantageous situations... isn't something that only happens to Zoro, hence why Sanji took on Jabra after being defeated by Califa, or why Luffy had to face Hody underwater, or why Doflamingo was the last enemy after a whole competition of fighters, Bellamy manipulation, etc., and so on.
The obvious answer to how have the main character crushing the dreams of the main villains without being outshone by a subordinate of his is by making such subordinate weaker and pairing him with weaker enemies; which is the case.
Zoro isn't useless, he is the second strongest fighter in the crew where everybody is a fighter and Luffy not only is that but their captain and main character. And he isn't the first mate, by the way; first mate is a very specific official role that follows a established hierarchy that doesn't exist in the Straw Hats, hence why he's just a combatant unlike Beckman or Rayleigh.
Luffy is the strongest, has always been and will be by the time this story ends. Zoro is a combatant just like tons of other crewmates of different rank in strength hierarchies not because he's the strongest fighter in the crew but because he can't do anything else; but it doesn't define his character nor how relatable he is to the audience because it isn't just about fighting but how he fights and what values he puts on his combat philosophy whether he's weaker than Luffy or not (among other things like design or personality) . This is a fighting comic book, Luffy will become the Pirate King through fighting just like always, Luffy will keep taking on the strongest enemy as his main versus just like always, and Luffy will keep being the one within his interdependent crew who can kick Arlong ass while Zoro is the one who can use swords, just like always.
No, because that's not what I said but that Zoro wasn't a "real swordsman" until he awakened the breath of things because, as Koushiro stated, a sword that can't choose isn't even a real sword to him (and, therefore, nor is "real" the swordsman in the context of this distinction). A very valid reasoning considering the premises of "real" and "fake" swords, especially if you read it in context instead of trying to use it as a weak attempt at mocking me.
Luffy's dream isn't explicitly about becoming the strongest but it virtually includes it because he will become the king among kings and surpass the emperors and the admirals, plus being the main character in this manga, the character who gets the definitive versus against the main and strongest villains each arc, the character who will become the new Roger.
A Roger who was indeed the strongest man back then by virtue of Whitebeard being stated as the only person to rival him, not the other way around. Whitebeard's title is irrelevant; he had it before and after Roger, but Roger was still "his king". Don't try to discuss that Roger wasn't the strongest, please, this is a shonen about pirates and Roger was the Pirate King. Even if Whitebeard was 99, Roger is clearly a 100 in Oda's mind; the king of kings, as stated by Chinjao.
Zoro wasn't weakened, nor nerfed, nor unable to fight, nor whatever when he faced Kaku because he wasn't capable of putting a fight against Lucci, hence the very obvious doriki system (unless you actually believe Oda made that explicit hirearchy to lie to us with no proper explanation of its validity). Or when he had to conform with Pica while Luffy took on Doflamingo. And, of course, you are ignoring that getting weakened, fighting before the final versus, facing disadvantageous situations... isn't something that only happens to Zoro, hence why Sanji took on Jabra after being defeated by Califa, or why Luffy had to face Hody underwater, or why Doflamingo was the last enemy after a whole competition of fighters, Bellamy manipulation, etc., and so on.
The obvious answer to how have the main character crushing the dreams of the main villains without being outshone by a subordinate of his is by making such subordinate weaker and pairing him with weaker enemies; which is the case.
Zoro isn't useless, he is the second strongest fighter in the crew where everybody is a fighter and Luffy not only is that but their captain and main character. And he isn't the first mate, by the way; first mate is a very specific official role that follows a established hierarchy that doesn't exist in the Straw Hats, hence why he's just a combatant unlike Beckman or Rayleigh.
Luffy is the strongest, has always been and will be by the time this story ends. Zoro is a combatant just like tons of other crewmates of different rank in strength hierarchies not because he's the strongest fighter in the crew but because he can't do anything else; but it doesn't define his character nor how relatable he is to the audience because it isn't just about fighting but how he fights and what values he puts on his combat philosophy whether he's weaker than Luffy or not (among other things like design or personality) . This is a fighting comic book, Luffy will become the Pirate King through fighting just like always, Luffy will keep taking on the strongest enemy as his main versus just like always, and Luffy will keep being the one within his interdependent crew who can kick Arlong ass while Zoro is the one who can use swords, just like always.
No, because that's not what I said but that Zoro wasn't a "real swordsman" until he awakened the breath of things because, as Koushiro stated, a sword that can't choose isn't even a real sword to him (and, therefore, nor is "real" the swordsman in the context of this distinction). A very valid reasoning considering the premises of "real" and "fake" swords, especially if you read it in context instead of trying to use it as a weak attempt at mocking me.
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Yep, the role argument is not a good argument for Zoro > Luffy.
It'll fall flat when Yamato replaces Zoro as combatant and Zoro becomes recognised as Firstmate/Vice Captain.
IMO, one can present a credible argument that Zoro is stronger than Luffy. It'll lean heavily on Zoro having done more damage to Kaido than Luffy (and while in a very weakened state), and Kaido complimenting Zoro as having done enough while being disappointed in Luffy.
I don't really endorse the argument because I expect Luffy to eventually defeat Kaido, and I don't really care to argue that Zoro was above Luffy from Chapters X - Chapters Y.
Zoro still has the best feats of the Supernova for now. Luffy doesn't have anything that compares to:
These three feats are still the best on the Rooftop so far, and there isn't really any reason to think that Luffy can replicate equivalents.
It'll fall flat when Yamato replaces Zoro as combatant and Zoro becomes recognised as Firstmate/Vice Captain.
IMO, one can present a credible argument that Zoro is stronger than Luffy. It'll lean heavily on Zoro having done more damage to Kaido than Luffy (and while in a very weakened state), and Kaido complimenting Zoro as having done enough while being disappointed in Luffy.
I don't really endorse the argument because I expect Luffy to eventually defeat Kaido, and I don't really care to argue that Zoro was above Luffy from Chapters X - Chapters Y.
Zoro still has the best feats of the Supernova for now. Luffy doesn't have anything that compares to:
- Blocking Hakai
- Scarring Kaido
- Withstanding a COC infused Thunder Bagua from Hybrid Kaido
- He did this while 20 - 30 bones in his body had been shattered
These three feats are still the best on the Rooftop so far, and there isn't really any reason to think that Luffy can replicate equivalents.
I don't really agree TBH. Luffy has portrayal and narrative over Zoro, but Zoro's feats are still better than his.
I think opinions from Luffy beating Zoro high difficulty to Zoro beating Luffy high difficulty are within the realm of reason.
If Luffy gains much better feats than Zoro, then I'd agree that Zoro > Luffy isn't a reasonable take.
I have both at the same level but give Luffy the edge due to portrayal/narrative.
I think opinions from Luffy beating Zoro high difficulty to Zoro beating Luffy high difficulty are within the realm of reason.
If Luffy gains much better feats than Zoro, then I'd agree that Zoro > Luffy isn't a reasonable take.
I have both at the same level but give Luffy the edge due to portrayal/narrative.
