Character Discussion Zoro vs Sanji who helped more Wano/the alliance more

[Galahad]

I think you’re vastly underestimating Momos importance here.

Can you try to make Sanji's famboyism less noticeable? Maybe then we can have a somewhat interesting debate.

1. With Momos death the entire people of wano lose hope in the battle early on. This means Tama would lose hope along with them meaning no Gifter uprising meaning all the fights would have ended up in losses. Remember the alliance didn’t know Hiyori was alive. Momo was their one and only dream.

Momo's death may weaken the morale of the warriors, but Hiyori can fill the same role.

Also Tama's part is completely fake. The person who maintains Tama's will is Luffy.

2. Even if they don’t immediately surrender, with Momos death Luffy would not have been able to make it back up to Onigashima meaning Kaido would’ve ended the alliance personally and killed or enslaved everyone

The most pathetic argument I've seen in a long time. Luffy can fly, he doesn't need Momo at all.

3. Finally, even if Luffy finds a way back up to Onigashima, he can’t fight all out because his Bajrang Gun would’ve caused the explosions in Onigashima to explode killing everyone

Maybe this is the most sensible thing you've ever said. However, it is not that important either, we can always turn to Law.

Momo was the second most important member of the alliance, and in the eyes of many was the most important because of his role in the war as the hopes and dreams of the samurai. Momos influence outweighs kids and laws.

Of three arguments you have given, only one is acceptable. That should make it clear how wrong you are.

Momo is not the second most important member, much less the first.

Rather serious;

1. Luffy
2. Zoro
3. Law
4. Kid
5. Tama
6. Momo

Obviously without Luffy there is nothing to do, without Zoro they would all have died, Kid and Law have defeated Mom and Tama attracted the Gifters. Maybe even Chopper could be more important than Momo.

And you could even take Sanji out of the equation and the alliance might have won.

Finally, there’s also the fact that without Sanji there’d be no samurai alliance in the first place. He saved the three most prominent members of the Nine Red Scabbards as well.
1. Kinemon - Leader of the Red Scabbards and organizer of the rebellion would never have left punk hazard if not for Sanji (which also means Momo wouldn’t be traveling with the straw hats)

That is not true. The credit for saving Kinemon belongs to the entire crew.

2. Inuarashi and Nekomamushi - The leader of the Minks see Sanji as the savior of the minks as well.

It's not true either, it's to the credit of Chopper and Caesar.

Again, i don’t think you really understand the fact that the entire alliance was indirectly built on small dominoes Sanji set up. And if he didn’t do what he did in the arcs leading up to wano, the alliance would’ve never been formed and the straw hats would be running head first into a fight with Kaido with just the heart and kid pirates.

No. You are blinded by your fanboyism.
Realize that of everything you have said there is only one thing that is really valid. Save Momo.
But it pales in comparison to Zoro's input.

 

[DonWick]

I think you’re vastly underestimating Momos importance here.

1. With Momos death the entire people of wano lose hope in the battle early on. This means Tama would lose hope along with them meaning no Gifter uprising meaning all the fights would have ended up in losses. Remember the alliance didn’t know Hiyori was alive. Momo was their one and only dream.

2. Even if they don’t immediately surrender, with Momos death Luffy would not have been able to make it back up to Onigashima meaning Kaido would’ve ended the alliance personally and killed or enslaved everyone

3. Finally, even if Luffy finds a way back up to Onigashima, he can’t fight all out because his Bajrang Gun would’ve caused the explosions in Onigashima to explode killing everyone

Momo was the second most important member of the alliance, and in the eyes of many was the most important because of his role in the war as the hopes and dreams of the samurai. Momos influence outweighs kids and laws.

Finally, there’s also the fact that without Sanji there’d be no samurai alliance in the first place. He saved the three most prominent members of the Nine Red Scabbards as well.
1. Kinemon - Leader of the Red Scabbards and organizer of the rebellion would never have left punk hazard if not for Sanji (which also means Momo wouldn’t be traveling with the straw hats)
2. Inuarashi and Nekomamushi - The leader of the Minks see Sanji as the savior of the minks as well.

Again, i don’t think you really understand the fact that the entire alliance was indirectly built on small dominoes Sanji set up. And if he didn’t do what he did in the arcs leading up to wano, the alliance would’ve never been formed and the straw hats would be running head first into a fight with Kaido with just the heart and kid pirates.

1. The samurai were prepared to die in that first Momo was just a figure head they were also fighting to avenge Oden. Also what did the Samurai outside of Inu & Neko accomplish?

2. Why wouldn’t Luffy be able to get back up top. He used the voice of all things to reach Laws crew himself didn’t he? He also can fly? Or Marco could fly him or he could walk up the steps.

3. Momo didn’t stop the explosions. Yamato stopped some and Big Mom blew up with the rest.

4. Luffy was going to fight Kaido rather Kinnemon was there or not.

5. Remind me of how Sanji is the savior of the Minks again? I do t remember that at all.

 

[phatltse62882]

Sanji saved Momo (future shogun) => if he failed or no one did it => the raid would be failed also.
Zolo fought King => if he failed , Sanji or Jinbei could fight him => the plan kept going on.
Protected one of the most important person of the arc is the key for this raid to become winning.

 

[Julius]

Sanji definitely

 

[CodeBreaker]

/thread

 

[York]

Raizo Sweep

 

[Sir Yasheen]

1. The samurai were prepared to die in that first Momo was just a figure head they were also fighting to avenge Oden. Also what did the Samurai outside of Inu & Neko accomplish?

2. Why wouldn’t Luffy be able to get back up top. He used the voice of all things to reach Laws crew himself didn’t he? He also can fly? Or Marco could fly him or he could walk up the steps.

3. Momo didn’t stop the explosions. Yamato stopped some and Big Mom blew up with the rest.

4. Luffy was going to fight Kaido rather Kinnemon was there or not.

5. Remind me of how Sanji is the savior of the Minks again? I do t remember that at all.

1. The samurai were prepared to die, however, death is easier than watching their dream die. And Tamas entire motivation was seeing a Wano where momo is shogun. Losing that dream she’d have no Will to fight on and turn the gifters. Without this the straw hats would’ve lost their fights.

2. Can he fly miles in the air? He may run out of gear 4 on the way up and then get thrown back off immediately cause he can’t use his haki.

3. Yamato’s Ice only stopped the fire monster, as we saw from big mom impact still caused explosions. Big mom didn’t blow up the rest there are still down there.

4. Luffy was going to fight Kaido, but without getting help from an army. Which as we saw in WCI is death.

5. Neko and Pedro called him that because he was the one who made Caesar reverse the gas

 

[DonWick]

1. The samurai were prepared to die, however, death is easier than watching their dream die. And Tamas entire motivation was seeing a Wano where momo is shogun. Losing that dream she’d have no Will to fight on and turn the gifters. Without this the straw hats would’ve lost their fights.

2. Can he fly miles in the air? He may run out of gear 4 on the way up and then get thrown back off immediately cause he can’t use his haki.

3. Yamato’s Ice only stopped the fire monster, as we saw from big mom impact still caused explosions. Big mom didn’t blow up the rest there are still down there.

4. Luffy was going to fight Kaido, but without getting help from an army. Which as we saw in WCI is death.

5. Neko and Pedro called him that because he was the one who made Caesar reverse the gas

1. None of that matters Luffy would have defeated Kaido regardless. Kidd and Law would have still been there.

2. There is no way he runs out of Gear 4 and again why couldn’t he take the stairs or have Marco or Sanji fly him? Or Law send him?

3. So why didn’t they blow up when the island crashed?

4. Luffy could have just gotten his fleet which is a stronger army.

5. The Minks would have helped either way they didn’t help because of Sanji they did it because of Oden.

 

[pg13]

Damn, It might be Sanji fr, knowing how important momomnuske is And the amount of characters he saved in the process of fighting Queen.

 

[JoNdule]

Sanji saved Momo
That alone worth more than anything anyone did bar beating Yonko

 

[Finalbeta]

How is this a question lololol

 

[BakiDou]

How is this a question lololol

True, Sanji was a beast.

 

[Finalbeta]

True, Sanji was a beast.

 

[Santoryu D Bazooka]

To everyone here who got offended.

Zoro's action are unknown
Even if he did so much to help. He was never seen do anything infront of the Samurai except for delivering the cure "ice oni".
Oda went to the extent to push Zoro away from everyone to have him Solo King with no one to see.

Sanji rescueing Momo as the "Soba Mask" can "depending on Oda ofc" be something of note for the Samurai who witnessed it.


As a reader you all know that Zoro did so much to help yet the weight of his action in eyes of everyone was none but ultimately it was all a support for Luffy in the end. That is why as an Arc of a "Samurai" the expectation of something grand for Zoro infront of the whole Nation of Samurai was expected for most readers. Then Oda gave him the treatment of Luffy's Shadow the Unknown Hero who could have done more. For now that is.. I will reserve judgement for when they finally close the "curtain" on Wano.

 

[Rivaille]

Wait people really think that Momo is more important to the alliance than Luffy? Or is this just trolling ?

 

[faker]

Wait people really think that Momo is more important to the alliance than Luffy? Or is this just trolling ?

Momo is the leader of Wano. it is very important in the plot

And no one can hold onishima without Momo

 

[Boiroy]

Zoro saved Momo

Zoro saved everyone from the oni virus

Zoro saved Luffy 4 times on the rooftop

Zoro saved Kid and Law

Zoro saved Killer

hahahahah ez mvp

 

[Rivaille]

Momo is the leader of Wano. it is very important in the plot

And no one can hold onishima without Momo

More than Luffy?

When Sanji saved Momo no one’s knew that Momo can hold Onigashima like Kaido which he ultimately did not do.

 

[Peenix]

They both just took down fodder anyway

 

[Albino 👑]

Kaido, orochi, king, yamato, hyogoro, luffy, sanji, the scabbards all new and highlighted how important momonosukes living was both before and during the raid
Acting like momonosuke isn't a big deal is weird