Character Discussion Zoro vs Sanji who helped more Wano/the alliance more
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Let me doubt it. The ones who saved Tama were Nami and Usopp. But let's be generous and accept it.
Do you know who also saved Tama? Exactly Zoro.
Right, my fault. I forgot.
Do you know who also saved Chopper? Exactly Zoro. And twice, giving him the antidote and saving him from Queen's attack.
Sorry, I already fixed it.
Zoro:
That is a different topic. But as much as they knew what was coming, they had no time to dodge it. That time is what Zoro bought. Face it.
By the way, Zoro also knew what was coming, but instead of running for his life, he thought of saving the others.
At least you have chosen a path more intelligent than the rest. But neither for those Sanji wins this time.
It may be the Samurai's bow, but it's not Zoro's bow. The problem is not Zoro's or Oda's, the problem is yours for expecting unrealistic things.
Also, if you really believed that Zoro was going to lead the Samurai by becoming his hero of her own free will, I'm sorry to tell you that you don't know Zoro.
Luffy and Zoro are two characters that, except for their personality, are like two drops of water. Their way of thinking, acting and their values are the same. It has been proven many times. It is impossible that Zoro sought to lead the Samurai or become a new Ryuma. That would be a shit on Oda's part.
Do you know who also saved Tama? Exactly Zoro.
Right, my fault. I forgot.
Do you know who also saved Chopper? Exactly Zoro. And twice, giving him the antidote and saving him from Queen's attack.
Sorry, I already fixed it.
Zoro:
- Zoro saved Tama from Hawkins.
- Zoro obtained the weapons for the allies. Without weapons they would do little.
- Zoro saved Luffy's butt from Apoo in the raid. Luffy is the most important member of the alliance, much more than Momo.
- He got the antidote from the Korioni. Without him all the allies would be Ko.
- Zoro saved Chopper from Korioni and Queen.
- Zoro saved Luffy's butt from Mom in roof. Luffy is the most important member of the alliance, much more than Momo.
- Zoro once again saved Luffy's butt from Kaido's Borobreath. Luffy is the most important member of the alliance, much more than Momo.
- Zoro once again saved Luffy's butt from Big Mom's HaHa no Mi. Luffy is the most important member of the alliance, much more than Momo.
- Zoro pulled Luffy out of Kaido's jaws. Luffy is the most important member of the alliance, much more than Momo.
- Zoro saved Luffy's, Kid's, Law's and Killer's butt. The first three much more important than Momo for the Alliance.
- Zoro was part of the plan to separate Kaido and Big Mom. The most crucial part to have a minimal chance of victory.
- Once again Zoro saved Luffy from being torn to pieces by Kaido, injuring the latter. Luffy is the most important member of the alliance, much more than Momo.
- And last but not least, he defeated King, the 2 strongest.
- Sanji rescued Momo.
- Sanji saved Tama from Queen.
- Sanji saved Chopper from Queen.
- Sanji defeated Queen, the 3 strongest.
That is a different topic. But as much as they knew what was coming, they had no time to dodge it. That time is what Zoro bought. Face it.
By the way, Zoro also knew what was coming, but instead of running for his life, he thought of saving the others.
Post automatically merged:
At least you have chosen a path more intelligent than the rest. But neither for those Sanji wins this time.
- The question is who has been more important for the alliance? Not who the Samurai "prefer". The alliance is the Muguiwara, Heart Pirates, Kid Pirates, Samurai and Minks. And importance has nothing to do with recognition.
- Even if we put ourselves in the case of Who do the Samurai "prefer"? Sanji keeps losing. As you said, the one who rescued Momo is O-Soba Mask, not Sanji. And although they have seen Sanji when he hit Queen a couple of times, then they also separated, Zoro helped them against a Number, gave them the Korioni antidote, they witnessed his fury against Queen and also saw him a few clashes against King as well that Sanji. Not to mention that Hyogoro and Kawamatsu hold Zoro in high regard.
It may be the Samurai's bow, but it's not Zoro's bow. The problem is not Zoro's or Oda's, the problem is yours for expecting unrealistic things.
Also, if you really believed that Zoro was going to lead the Samurai by becoming his hero of her own free will, I'm sorry to tell you that you don't know Zoro.
Luffy and Zoro are two characters that, except for their personality, are like two drops of water. Their way of thinking, acting and their values are the same. It has been proven many times. It is impossible that Zoro sought to lead the Samurai or become a new Ryuma. That would be a shit on Oda's part.
If enma didnt force Zolo to unlock. Then Sanji Marco would fight King and Queen instead.
Please stop being so pathetic. We don't even talk about opinions anymore, if not about manga situations. Anyone with eyes knows that it is Zoro who found the weapons while he was following the monk. This makes me cringe already.
It is not about justice or injustice, but about valuable actions for the alliance. Every excuse is worse than the last.
Without an antidote, Chopper would have died. Also, when Queen was going to shoot Chopper for discovering how the Koorioni works, Zoro attacks Queen destroying her weapon. It was a double save that I am also being generous by taking it as one.
I'm pretty sure you don't need the panel, it's ridiculous the lengths you go.
You are being very unfair and irrational. Law only helped Zoro against the Borobreath. Even against the Hakai, Law didn't help Zoro, he would have died, but he would have saved everyone. There's no difference.
But the worst thing is that if you want to go that route, you can only take 1 minor action from Zoro, but you have to take Momo's save from Sanji, which settles this debate.
It doesn't matter if you like Zoro or Sanji, but if you want to debate you have to be fair. What shows that you are a fanboy or a hater is taking different criteria for each character, which is what you are doing.
As far as I remember, Sanji didn't save Zoro at any time. Although he fought with King and Queen for a while, that wasn't meant to save Zoro as such, it's a war. In fact, those who did save Zoro were, as you say, Marco and the Samurai.
As for transporting Zoro, it's a comical gag (there's no justification for Law not leaving him with Chopper), if you really want to take it at face value, then Zoro also saved Sanji since he was used as a weapon. You choose what you want. It is what is eaten for what is served.
This is the last straw. Only with this you already demonstrate the bias you have with Sanji. As long as Sanji is above Zoro, you don't hesitate to make these pathetic statements. It's not that Momo isn't the leader of the Alliance, it's that you could remove Momo's character and the Alliance could very well have won.
Now I ask you.
Come on, I don't know where you see Momo sooo important. Well, yes I know. If Zoro had saved Momo and Sanji had saved Luffy, then Momo would be irrelevant of course.
Bro :)) your Sanji didnot do that :D Germa genes did :))). Zoro gets eaten for the alliance, that's more than Sanji who doesn't even know how to cook. :))) count it.
If Germa genes didnt force Sanji to unlock. Then Zoro Marco would fight King and Queen instead.
It is not about justice or injustice, but about valuable actions for the alliance. Every excuse is worse than the last.
Without an antidote, Chopper would have died. Also, when Queen was going to shoot Chopper for discovering how the Koorioni works, Zoro attacks Queen destroying her weapon. It was a double save that I am also being generous by taking it as one.
I'm pretty sure you don't need the panel, it's ridiculous the lengths you go.
You are being very unfair and irrational. Law only helped Zoro against the Borobreath. Even against the Hakai, Law didn't help Zoro, he would have died, but he would have saved everyone. There's no difference.
But the worst thing is that if you want to go that route, you can only take 1 minor action from Zoro, but you have to take Momo's save from Sanji, which settles this debate.
It doesn't matter if you like Zoro or Sanji, but if you want to debate you have to be fair. What shows that you are a fanboy or a hater is taking different criteria for each character, which is what you are doing.
As far as I remember, Sanji didn't save Zoro at any time. Although he fought with King and Queen for a while, that wasn't meant to save Zoro as such, it's a war. In fact, those who did save Zoro were, as you say, Marco and the Samurai.
As for transporting Zoro, it's a comical gag (there's no justification for Law not leaving him with Chopper), if you really want to take it at face value, then Zoro also saved Sanji since he was used as a weapon. You choose what you want. It is what is eaten for what is served.
This is the last straw. Only with this you already demonstrate the bias you have with Sanji. As long as Sanji is above Zoro, you don't hesitate to make these pathetic statements. It's not that Momo isn't the leader of the Alliance, it's that you could remove Momo's character and the Alliance could very well have won.
- Technically the Alliance leaders with Luffy and Law. They already planned to defeat Kaido even before they met the Minks and Samurai. And I say technically, because it is clear that the leader is Luffy. You just have to read the manga man.
- Momo is the leader of the Samurai. Not from the Alliance. And he is only the leader because he is the son of Oden. The citizens don't even know about it. That role can be fulfilled just as well or even better by Hiyori. She is the daughter of Oden and also much better known.
- Even if we abolished Momo's role, the Alliance would have moved on. Do you really think the Minks wouldn't have followed Luffy in his fight against Kaido without Momo? They were already grateful to the Muguis for saving them from Jack's virus and the scabbards would still want revenge for Oden. Do you really think that the Samurai would not have followed Luffy? Luffy has already won the hearts of the prisoners in Udon. And the scabbards still want revenge.
Now I ask you.
- Do you think without Luffy the alliance would have had a chance? Of course not, no one could have defeated Kaido. The Supernovas would not have survived on the roof.
- Without Zoro do you think the Alliance would have succeeded? Of course not, no one could have stopped the Hakai and cut Kaido to rescue Luffy. However to defeat King, if he could have been replaced. He could have been Yamato.
- Without Tama the alliance would have won? Probably not, surely the lower part would have collapsed before the numbers of the Beast Pirates. And no one can replace her since her fruit is needed.
- Without Law, do you think the Alliance would have succeeded? Of course not, its fruit has been necessary in certain situations. No other character could have replaced him.
- Without Kid do you think the Alliance would have succeeded? You are right. It just takes someone to replace it. It could have been Yamato.
- Without Killer do you think the Alliance would have succeeded? You are right. It just takes someone to replace it. It could have been Yamato.
- Without Sanji would the Alliance have won? Well yes, Momo's death would be tragic, but not vital. and against Queen he could have been replaced by Yamato or even Kawamatsu.
- Without Momo could the Alliance have won? Of course. He could have been replaced by Hiyori or even his role could have disappeared and the Alliance would have won.
Come on, I don't know where you see Momo sooo important. Well, yes I know. If Zoro had saved Momo and Sanji had saved Luffy, then Momo would be irrelevant of course.
Bro :)) your Sanji didnot do that :D Germa genes did :))). Zoro gets eaten for the alliance, that's more than Sanji who doesn't even know how to cook. :))) count it.
If Germa genes didnt force Sanji to unlock. Then Zoro Marco would fight King and Queen instead.
Dude , you should read more history to understand how much leader figure is important in the war . Even at the udon , who convinced people to come war ? Without momo , samurai do not come together . This is physiological perspective. Luffy is the MC . Of course , this is the most important character on the manga . However , you did not understand samurais principle .
you cannot create relevant between actions.
all i know that is if somebody said that sanji did not save zoro in onigashima , this is just bad intention .
Zoro was totally defendless. Any beast pirate could kill zoro in that case . Sanji protected him and gave chopper to cure . In that time , chopper is dealing with Queen .
Sanji literally said that cure zoro . I will take this dino . In that case , nobody can capable of matching queen.
how come one human being dont say this is save . This is beyond the logic . What did you expect ? Feeding with hands ? Sleeping with him ?
you cannot create relevant between actions.
all i know that is if somebody said that sanji did not save zoro in onigashima , this is just bad intention .
Zoro was totally defendless. Any beast pirate could kill zoro in that case . Sanji protected him and gave chopper to cure . In that time , chopper is dealing with Queen .
Sanji literally said that cure zoro . I will take this dino . In that case , nobody can capable of matching queen.
how come one human being dont say this is save . This is beyond the logic . What did you expect ? Feeding with hands ? Sleeping with him ?
I agree that a leader is very important. But that leader is Luffy, not Momo. If we have learned anything from Luffy, it is that he has the ability to attract others, that is a true leader. The leaders of the Alliance with Luffy and Law and in practice if you have been reading One Piece, you should know that the leader is Luffy.
Furthermore, Luffy is not only a leader, he is also the main force. He is superior to Momo in every way.
Why is Momo a leader? For being charismatic? For being strong? For being smart? Why do citizens trust him? No, he is a leader because he is the son of Oden. Hiyori can perform the role of leader even better than Momo since Hiyori is famous, the town has a fondness for her that Momo doesn't.
Also, if you think that Luffy is not able to get the Samurai on his side, you have no idea about One Piece. If it is his strong point, mentioned over and over again. No Momo figure needed.
Do you think that without Momo the Alliance would not have won? Perfect seems very good to me, give me arguments. I have given you many to show you that Momo is not indispensable.
If you had to choose between Momo and Luffy to save your city, who would you prefer? I am clear that I prefer Luffy a thousand times.
I repeat that this is a funny gag. Do you want to take it into account? Perfect. Well, Sanji saved Zoro, I have no problem admitting it.
Now, you admit that Zoro saved Sanji, since he used it to defeat those enemies that put Zoro in danger.
No, what cannot be used is different criteria depending on the character.
Do not get me wrong. I like both Zoro and Sanji. But I accept both characters with their strengths and weaknesses. It does not try to turn them into something they are not. If you're really that obsessed with Sanji being equal to or better than Zoro, then you don't like Sanji, you like Zoro.
I do not ask that we speak well of Zoro, I only ask that you be fair.
Furthermore, Luffy is not only a leader, he is also the main force. He is superior to Momo in every way.
Why is Momo a leader? For being charismatic? For being strong? For being smart? Why do citizens trust him? No, he is a leader because he is the son of Oden. Hiyori can perform the role of leader even better than Momo since Hiyori is famous, the town has a fondness for her that Momo doesn't.
Also, if you think that Luffy is not able to get the Samurai on his side, you have no idea about One Piece. If it is his strong point, mentioned over and over again. No Momo figure needed.
Do you think that without Momo the Alliance would not have won? Perfect seems very good to me, give me arguments. I have given you many to show you that Momo is not indispensable.
If you had to choose between Momo and Luffy to save your city, who would you prefer? I am clear that I prefer Luffy a thousand times.
I repeat that this is a funny gag. Do you want to take it into account? Perfect. Well, Sanji saved Zoro, I have no problem admitting it.
Now, you admit that Zoro saved Sanji, since he used it to defeat those enemies that put Zoro in danger.
No, what cannot be used is different criteria depending on the character.
- Does a funny gag count for Sanji? Perfect then it also counts for Zoro.
- Does only what the Samurai have seen count for Zoro? Well the same for Sanji, so saving Momo doesn't count because it was O-Soba Mask.
- Do only situations where Zoro didn't receive help count? Perfect, so it doesn't count Sanji saving Momo either because she had help from Sinobu.
- Doesn't Enma count because it's something external to Zoro? Okay, so she doesn't count the Raid Suit and the Germa genes either.
Do not get me wrong. I like both Zoro and Sanji. But I accept both characters with their strengths and weaknesses. It does not try to turn them into something they are not. If you're really that obsessed with Sanji being equal to or better than Zoro, then you don't like Sanji, you like Zoro.
I do not ask that we speak well of Zoro, I only ask that you be fair.
for the first part , still you do not want to get it . When luffy got defeated by Kaido , what is the declaration?
the highest bounty in alliance side , mugiwara no luffy has been defeated by Kaido . Luffy is the strongest character in the alliance side . But is not leader. If momo was just figure, why did all samurai try to save momo ? Or why did kaido say when he kill momo , it will be over . Why are u still struggling about momo is leader of raid . I do not get it . Open the thread. And put poll . You will se the facts .
For second part , you are really making retarding . Wano is isolation country . Samurais belief is totally different than rest of world . Even usopp said that are u stupid to accept die to kinemon and kiku . Luffy can affect people but you missed so many points . Until onigashima , luffy hang out with only tama , then he went udon . At the udon , he said to momo , they are waiting YOU. Momo made speech and samurais join alliance side . You must be blind not to see facts.
Your question is such a funny . I am tired to tell wano . Also , check history . All kings commander and generals are generally stronger than king . But soldier pay attentions always what their kings order . Or soldier want to see existence of king on the war . Not commander or general. Just read history .
well well . Lets move question part. .
I did not say enma thing any time . I always respect zoro . But what you cannot understand is that odas writing style for sanji and for zoro are totallly different. You cannot use gag thing . This is oda writing style for sanji . Like who is the smartest guy in the onigashima ? Of course , queen . But based on your logic , queen is totally stupid . No . Oda always use this way to write sanjis fight. Like jabra - robin fairly tail , bon clay.
How come you see sanji carry zoro just a gag thing ?
To beat beast subordinates, sanji need zoro sword ? This was put because oda want to create funny interaction between wings . Always talking about luffy is strongest . How much time was luffy absent the raid ? Do you know ? Who provided time ? Who avaoid kaido not to wipe out all onigashima. Luffy is strongest alliance. But he is nothing without help in the onigashima . You are such a pain
the highest bounty in alliance side , mugiwara no luffy has been defeated by Kaido . Luffy is the strongest character in the alliance side . But is not leader. If momo was just figure, why did all samurai try to save momo ? Or why did kaido say when he kill momo , it will be over . Why are u still struggling about momo is leader of raid . I do not get it . Open the thread. And put poll . You will se the facts .
For second part , you are really making retarding . Wano is isolation country . Samurais belief is totally different than rest of world . Even usopp said that are u stupid to accept die to kinemon and kiku . Luffy can affect people but you missed so many points . Until onigashima , luffy hang out with only tama , then he went udon . At the udon , he said to momo , they are waiting YOU. Momo made speech and samurais join alliance side . You must be blind not to see facts.
Your question is such a funny . I am tired to tell wano . Also , check history . All kings commander and generals are generally stronger than king . But soldier pay attentions always what their kings order . Or soldier want to see existence of king on the war . Not commander or general. Just read history .
well well . Lets move question part. .
I did not say enma thing any time . I always respect zoro . But what you cannot understand is that odas writing style for sanji and for zoro are totallly different. You cannot use gag thing . This is oda writing style for sanji . Like who is the smartest guy in the onigashima ? Of course , queen . But based on your logic , queen is totally stupid . No . Oda always use this way to write sanjis fight. Like jabra - robin fairly tail , bon clay.
How come you see sanji carry zoro just a gag thing ?
To beat beast subordinates, sanji need zoro sword ? This was put because oda want to create funny interaction between wings . Always talking about luffy is strongest . How much time was luffy absent the raid ? Do you know ? Who provided time ? Who avaoid kaido not to wipe out all onigashima. Luffy is strongest alliance. But he is nothing without help in the onigashima . You are such a pain
