General & Others The Ruination of a character #2 - Zoro: the Edgelord, the One Trick Pony and the Soulless one

Was Zoro more enjoyable character Pre or Post Time Skip?

  • Pre Time Skip

    Votes: 45 44.6%
  • Post Time Skip

    Votes: 7 6.9%
  • Same to me

    Votes: 43 42.6%
  • Hurry up with Luffy thread

    Votes: 18 17.8%

  • Total voters
    101

Adam 🍎

Pretty Boy
β€Ž
#1
I am ready to be brigaded


The Edgelord

If you would remember Zoro Pre Time Skip he was still a hard ass like he is today but he had a distinctive side to him. From jumping of a rope like Tarzan in Skypeia, mistaking Kaku for Usopp, scolding Nami for being late only to thank her for bringing booze, teasing Sanji and being teased back without wanting to murder him for it... and many more cases. Now let's compare him to Zoro post TS. Post TS Zoro is one of the edgiest characters I have ever seen. This dude barely fucking smiles and when he does it is either A) He gets to cut something and B) He got a new sword. You will very rarely find scenes of Zoro just having a proper laugh. From the top of my head those would be in Dressrosa with Pica or drinking with Law, and I think he laughed in Zou a bit. I am sure someone will find 1 or 2 instances more but compared to all scenes pre TS of him laughing it is very low amount. Everything you can count on fingers of 1 or 2 hands is small amount. Zoro now only laughs when gets the chance to fight someone or cut them. That is some next level borderline Emo stuff. Why did Zoro need to be made into such an Edgelord? Why make him this rabid dog that only laughs when he has something to cut? Why cant he take a joke without wanting to kill the person saying it? Zoro needs to chill out a bit and stop being this guy that craves cutting shit. Let him have a laugh here and there. Zoro lost his flavor, he lost emotions he had. He rarely cries, rarely smiles, rarely feels sad and so on. And once again I am sure some of you will come in here showing me panel or two of this not being the case. But like I said earlier, it is such a low amount compared to pre TS. I believe Oda made Zoro so edgy to attract edgy teen kids that like characters like that. Just a 1 emotion man wanting to cut shit. This brings us to the next point.


The One Trick Pony

Quickly - Besides Zoro cutting stuff what else does he do in the crew?

The answer is nothing; I suppose he has a role Vice Captain but Zoro only acted few times as such. In Punk Hazard he told Luffy to get serious considering the stakes and Luffy through New World has been nothing but selfish and reckless. Zoro as Vice Captain should reel Luffy in and keep him at check and not make him to dumb stuff that put the crew in jeopardy. Zoro does bare minimum to keep Luffy in check. Hell even few chapters ago he warned Luffy to get serious after Luffy got a fireball in his face and what does Luffy do? Goes G4 super early and wastes his Haki and now Zoro has to baby sit him. In Dressrosa he did lead people to try and stall the birdcage and to that I give him props. In Zou he did voice his opinion how Sanji should be left which to me was the most ridiculous thing he did post TS. Sanji's situation was nothing more than Robin 2.0 and Zoro had no objections going to E. Lobby to save her. Meanwhile he suddenly has problems saving Sanji under the premise that Luffy will pick a fight with Big Mom - But Luffy already picked a fight with Big Mom and Zoro was there when Luffy declared war to her. Zoro was in no position to be against getting back Sanji considering he stuck his head for any crew member. and Zoro knows Luffy well enough to know Luffy won't stay calm until Sanji is with them. To me that whole scene was just yikes. So with Zoro's Vice Captain position being pretty much empty shell considering he does bare minimum about it we are left with an question what does Zoro do in the crew? Sanji cooks, Nami navigates, Robin studies, Choper cures and so on. What does Zoro do? He fights people, that is legit 99% of things Zoro does post TS. He was degraded to Luffy's dog on a leash and when its needed Luffy just goes - GO SICK EM BOY, GO GO. Now I already know what you guys will say - But Beky Zoro did that before Time Skip too. And yes, you would be right - the difference is that Pre Time Skip Zoro had other stuff going for him besides that. Pre Time Skip whenever the crew visited a new island the main question would be - I wonder what every person in the crew will do? Post TS the only question being asked about Zoro is - Who will Zoro fight? If you think I am wrong, just check all Zoro threads here. Now, I understand his ambition is to be WSS but does he really have nothing else going on in his life besides that? If that is enough for you to like Zoro i seriously wish you all the best and enjoy him to the fullest. To me that isn't enough. I preferred Zoro when he had a soul to him, when he wasn't this Edgelord that only wants to fight people. Yea he is cool sometimes but its shell of what he used to be. A much more alive character with less edgy persona.


The Soulless character

With last 2 points in mind I'll just say it - Zoro lost his soul as a character. If Sanji lost his morality and sanity, Zoro lost his soul. He was stripped of his personality, of his Vice Captain role and adventures and was transformed into 1 dimensional character whose whole purpose in arcs now is to fight and fight and fight and to be a servant to Luffy and be ready to denounce his dream for him. That is Zoro, the Soulless. And if personally believe Zoro is the reflection of a certain part of his fandom. Quick to lash out, always ready for a conflict and angry af. If you are a chill Zoro fan that enjoys Zoro for who he is you will know about whom I exactly talk about and you will agree with me that is the case. If you are the person that sees yourself in what I said about then this thread will most likely go ape shit crazy. I am not satisfied how Oda took Zoro and stripped him of his personality and made fighting his only personality trait. Zoro was a way better character pre TS and even tho he was a hard ass then too at least he wasn't an Edgelord that only serves to fight people.


Conclusion.

Just like Sanji, Zoro was degraded to a personality wise inferior version of himself. A fight crazy swordsman that is obsessed with cutting people and does nothing else than to fight and occasionally voice his opinion as a vice captain that in most cases falls on deaf ears or he is just plain wrong. That is Vice Captain to future PK, future WSS. That is what Oda decided is better than a colorful Zoro personality wise pre TS


Next Up
Luffy - Naruto 2.0, the Selfish One and Mary Sue


 
#6
I will say it again. Pre-timeskip Zoro is probably the greatest character that Oda has created. But now current Zoro is nothing but an angry edgy guard dog. Which is the main reason why I don't enjoy him as much as many people here.:kayneshrug:
Indeed. Pre TS was vastly better character
Wano Zoro is a bit more like the old Zoro, don't ya think?
 

Cinera

𝐀𝐬𝐩𝐒𝐫𝐒𝐧𝐠 𝐌𝐚𝐬𝐜𝐑𝐞𝐧𝐧𝐲 𝐏𝐞𝐭
β€Ž
#8
I am ready to be brigaded


The Edgelord

If you would remember Zoro Pre Time Skip he was still a hard ass like he is today but he had a distinctive side to him. From jumping of a rope like Tarzan in Skypeia, mistaking Kaku for Usopp, scolding Nami for being late only to thank her for bringing booze, teasing Sanji and being teased back without wanting to murder him for it... and many more cases. Now let's compare him to Zoro post TS. Post TS Zoro is one of the edgiest characters I have ever seen. This dude barely fucking smiles and when he does it is either A) He gets to cut something and B) He got a new sword. You will very rarely find scenes of Zoro just having a proper laugh. From the top of my head those would be in Dressrosa with Pica or drinking with Law, and I think he laughed in Zou a bit. I am sure someone will find 1 or 2 instances more but compared to all scenes pre TS of him laughing it is very low amount. Everything you can count on fingers of 1 or 2 hands is small amount. Zoro now only laughs when gets the chance to fight someone or cut them. That is some next level borderline Emo stuff. Why did Zoro need to be made into such an Edgelord? Why make him this rabid dog that only laughs when he has something to cut? Why cant he take a joke without wanting to kill the person saying it? Zoro needs to chill out a bit and stop being this guy that craves cutting shit. Let him have a laugh here and there. Zoro lost his flavor, he lost emotions he had. He rarely cries, rarely smiles, rarely feels sad and so on. And once again I am sure some of you will come in here showing me panel or two of this not being the case. But like I said earlier, it is such a low amount compared to pre TS. I believe Oda made Zoro so edgy to attract edgy teen kids that like characters like that. Just a 1 emotion man wanting to cut shit. This brings us to the next point.


The One Trick Pony

Quickly - Besides Zoro cutting stuff what else does he do in the crew?

The answer is nothing; I suppose he has a role Vice Captain but Zoro only acted few times as such. In Punk Hazard he told Luffy to get serious considering the stakes and Luffy through New World has been nothing but selfish and reckless. Zoro as Vice Captain should reel Luffy in and keep him at check and not make him to dumb stuff that put the crew in jeopardy. Zoro does bare minimum to keep Luffy in check. Hell even few chapters ago he warned Luffy to get serious after Luffy got a fireball in his face and what does Luffy do? Goes G4 super early and wastes his Haki and now Zoro has to baby sit him. In Dressrosa he did lead people to try and stall the birdcage and to that I give him props. In Zou he did voice his opinion how Sanji should be left which to me was the most ridiculous thing he did post TS. Sanji's situation was nothing more than Robin 2.0 and Zoro had no objections going to E. Lobby to save her. Meanwhile he suddenly has problems saving Sanji under the premise that Luffy will pick a fight with Big Mom - But Luffy already picked a fight with Big Mom and Zoro was there when Luffy declared war to her. Zoro was in no position to be against getting back Sanji considering he stuck his head for any crew member. and Zoro knows Luffy well enough to know Luffy won't stay calm until Sanji is with them. To me that whole scene was just yikes. So with Zoro's Vice Captain position being pretty much empty shell considering he does bare minimum about it we are left with an question what does Zoro do in the crew? Sanji cooks, Nami navigates, Robin studies, Choper cures and so on. What does Zoro do? He fights people, that is legit 99% of things Zoro does post TS. He was degraded to Luffy's dog on a leash and when its needed Luffy just goes - GO SICK EM BOY, GO GO. Now I already know what you guys will say - But Beky Zoro did that before Time Skip too. And yes, you would be right - the difference is that Pre Time Skip Zoro had other stuff going for him besides that. Pre Time Skip whenever the crew visited a new island the main question would be - I wonder what every person in the crew will do? Post TS the only question being asked about Zoro is - Who will Zoro fight? If you think I am wrong, just check all Zoro threads here. Now, I understand his ambition is to be WSS but does he really have nothing else going on in his life besides that? If that is enough for you to like Zoro i seriously wish you all the best and enjoy him to the fullest. To me that isn't enough. I preferred Zoro when he had a soul to him, when he wasn't this Edgelord that only wants to fight people. Yea he is cool sometimes but its shell of what he used to be. A much more alive character with less edgy persona.


The Soulless character

With last 2 points in mind I'll just say it - Zoro lost his soul as a character. If Sanji lost his morality and sanity, Zoro lost his soul. He was stripped of his personality, of his Vice Captain role and adventures and was transformed into 1 dimensional character whose whole purpose in arcs now is to fight and fight and fight and to be a servant to Luffy and be ready to denounce his dream for him. That is Zoro, the Soulless. And if personally believe Zoro is the reflection of a certain part of his fandom. Quick to lash out, always ready for a conflict and angry af. If you are a chill Zoro fan that enjoys Zoro for who he is you will know about whom I exactly talk about and you will agree with me that is the case. If you are the person that sees yourself in what I said about then this thread will most likely go ape shit crazy. I am not satisfied how Oda took Zoro and stripped him of his personality and made fighting his only personality trait. Zoro was a way better character pre TS and even tho he was a hard ass then too at least he wasn't an Edgelord that only serves to fight people.


Conclusion.

Just like Sanji, Zoro was degraded to a personality wise inferior version of himself. A fight crazy swordsman that is obsessed with cutting people and does nothing else than to fight and occasionally voice his opinion as a vice captain that in most cases falls on deaf ears or he is just plain wrong. That is Vice Captain to future PK, future WSS. That is what Oda decided is better than a colorful Zoro personality wise pre TS


Next Up
Luffy - Naruto 2.0, the Selfish One and Mary Sue


:lusalty:

I'd write an extensive rebuttal of this with panels, but I'm supposed to be on hiatus now, so I'll be very brief.

In brief, Zoro had some more depth to him preskip, but he hasn't been a one dimensional edge lord postskip:
  • Zoro smiled at various points in Punk Hazard.
  • He had funny and heartwarming moments with Tashigi and spent a while carrying her around.
  • He was laughing/smiling when he saved Luffy from Mama's Heavenly Fire just recently.
  • He was smiling when he gave Chopper the antidote and entrusted things to him.
  • In Wano Zoro bonded with Yasuie, Tama and Hiyori and had several emotional moments with them.

This post is based on very selective attention/memory and outright falsehoods:
  • Zoro only smiles when he cuts things: False
    • He smiled after seeing Kinemon cut an explosion, after reuniting with Luffy on Wano, laughed after saving Luffy from Mama's Heavenly Fire, etc.
  • Zoro only cuts things: False
    • He advises and chastises Luffy
    • He provides emotional support for Luffy
  • Zoro is not the Vice Captain: False
    • See above
    • After retrieving the antidote from Apoo, Zoro delegated handling the treatment to Chopper and reassured him.
  • Zoro doesn't express emotions and is always angry: False
    • He's been cocky, happy, sad, surprised, distressed, grateful and several other emotions.
      • The claim that Zoro is emotionally constipated is a flat out lie.
    • He's only really been angry at specific moments (e.g. when he swore to avenge Yasuie, when he saw Okiku's arm fall through the roof).

Most of Zoro's emotions are expressed in regards to Luffy. If you were criticising Zoro, then a criticism about his role as an accessory to Luffy's would make sense, but the current criticism is based on falsehoods.

The only thing true about what you said is Zoro having been more expressive and having more depth preskip, but the extent to which that's true has been greatly overstated.

Don't bother replying, I'm not going to see it/respond.
 
Last edited:
I

Indigo

#10
:lugrim:

I'd write an extensive rebuttal of this with panels, but I'm supposed to be on hiatus now, so I'll be very brief.

In brief, Zoro had some more depth to him preskip, but he hasn't been a one dimensional edge lord postskip.

  • Zoro smiled at various points in Punk Hazard.
  • He had funny and heartwarming moments with Tashigi and spent a while carrying her around.
  • He was laughing/smiling when he saved Luffy from Mama's Heavenly Fire just recently.
  • In Wano Zoro bonded with Yasuie, Tama and Hiyori and had several emotional moments with them.

This post is based on very selective attention and outright lies:
  • Zoro only smiles when he cuts things: False
  • Zoro only cuts things: False
  • Zoro is not the Vice Captain: False
  • Zoro doesn't express emotions and is always angry: False

The only thing true is Zoro having been more expressive and having more depth preskip, but the extent to which that's true is greatly overstated.

Don't bother replying, I'm not going to see it/respond.
I miss Chopper and Zoro's big brother-little brother bond.

Edit: He's still hype though.
Another moment i would like to add was just recently, when Zoro cut down Apoo and took the antidote.

He gave it to Chopper and asked him if he could handle everything down here, and Chopper said yes, with Zoro responding with "That's our doctor" while smiling. To me that was a really cool vice captain moment, he is inspiring Chopper and motivating him at the same time, while showing some emotion, not an edge lord.

As someone who isn't very open with my own emotions for other people, i really enjoy Zoro, he doesn't show it all the time, but when he does it means something, either he really cares about the person or the moment is just that important.
 

Adam 🍎

Pretty Boy
β€Ž
#12
He gave it to Chopper and asked him if he could handle everything down here, and Chopper said yes, with Zoro responding with "That's our doctor" while smiling. To me that was a really cool vice captain moment, he is inspiring Chopper and motivating him at the same time, while showing some emotion, not an edge lord.
Ah yes forgot this part. I even had it at the back of my mind but it slipped. My main argument of vice captain ship is his lack of control over Luffy, not as much control as much as keeping Luffy in check to not do dumb shit

  • Zoro smiled at various points in Punk Hazard.
  • He had funny and heartwarming moments with Tashigi and spent a while carrying her around.
  • He was laughing/smiling when he saved Luffy from Mama's Heavenly Fire just recently.
So he had like what, lets say 5 smiling moments? In what? Several hundred chapters?
Pre TS zoro was way more open about his emotions and showcasing it. Post TS Zoro is very closed and just hung up on cutting

He smiled after seeing Kinemon cut an explosion, after reuniting with Luffy on Wano, laughed after saving Luffy from Mama's Heavenly Fire, etc.
Basically half of those if not more are fighting related

Zoro only cuts things: False
  • He advises and chastises Luffy
  • He provides emotional support for Luffy
And Luffy ignored his advices every single time
 
I

Indigo

#13
For me it's quality over quantity. I don't mind if i only see Zoro crying against Mihawk, to me that makes that one moment special. I would rather only have that scene, than watch Zoro keep crying all the time like Deku, where it doesn't feel like anything anymore, it lost it's weight.
Post automatically merged:

Zoro doesnt interact with anyone in the crew other than Luffy and Sanji. He's in his own other world.
This is so wrong.
 

TheKnightOfTheSea

𝕷𝖔𝖗𝖉 𝖔𝖋 𝕸𝖔𝖔𝖓'π–˜ π•Ύπ–•π–†π–œπ–“
β€Ž
#16
Another moment i would like to add was just recently, when Zoro cut down Apoo and took the antidote.

He gave it to Chopper and asked him if he could handle everything down here, and Chopper said yes, with Zoro responding with "That's our doctor" while smiling. To me that was a really cool vice captain moment, he is inspiring Chopper and motivating him at the same time, while showing some emotion, not an edge lord.

As someone who isn't very open with my own emotions for other people, i really enjoy Zoro, he doesn't show it all the time, but when he does it means something, either he really cares about the person or the moment is just that important.
That was a great little Zoro moment. Too bad that it got overshadowed by Zoro vs Apoo.
 
#17
After being wrong about Sanji now OP comes back with another embarrassing and completely wrong rant, imagine thinking that Zoro didn't put Luffy's life above his own constantly pre time skip and thinking the guy constantly saying he was going to kill people, trying to chop them in half and saying stuff like this

is somehow more of an edgelord post time skip, I won't even humor further replies from someone with poor selective memory.
 
I

Indigo

#19
Zoro is a fantastic character.

He just lacks the same level of interactions with his crew members he had in the past overall. But I would change nothing of him except for his sense of direction etc.

His cold-bloodness does not even make him evil so I don't see what's wrong with it. He is a punisher, and I love it.
I love his sense of direction, it's one of the most simple gags in the crew, and to me is the one of the most exciting. Every time Zoro starts walking in some direction, you always start to think where he is going to end up. Some times it doesn't pay off really, but here in Wano it has been amazing.
 
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