General & Others The Ruination of a character #2 - Zoro: the Edgelord, the One Trick Pony and the Soulless one

[KiriNigiri]

All of the strawhats are combatants
That’s not a role

Factually, it is his role. Just because every Strawhat can fight to some degree doesn’t mean they are Zoro good at it.

Just like how most of the Strawhats can cook, but none are Sanji good.

Just as how most of the Strawhats can follow a log pose, but they aren’t Nami good.

Most, if not all can steer a ship, but they aren’t Jinbe good.

Zoro is Luffy’s primary muscle, and without him, the crew would be seriously lacking in man power and get easily overwhelmed by any of the villain groups they’ve defeated.

Without Zoro, Luffy would be dead 5 times over in this most recent fight.

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

All of the strawhats are combatants
That’s not a role

Oda doesnt care about your feelings

 

[Gyro The God]

Being a fighter is not a role
This is shounan
Everyone is a fighter

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Being a fighter is not a role
This is shounan
Everyone is a fighter

Is a ship doctor a role on the ship? Or a shipwright?

As it can be seen from the above, Zoro's role is being the fighter of the crew.

 

[KiriNigiri]

Being a fighter is not a role
This is shounan
Everyone is a fighter

1. Shonen is a demographic, not a genre. There can be Shonen sports series, Shonen romance series, Shonen comedy series, Shonen battle series.

2.

 

[Doggo]

"Fighter" is a filler role for someone that doesn't know how to do anything else well enough to be assigned a significative role.
:cheers:
Luffy fights, Sanji fights, Franky fights, Brook fights, Usopp fights, Nami fights, Robin fights, Chopper fights. Jinbei fights.

 

[Gyro The God]

No matter how much you want to convince yourself
It’s still not a role

everyone in the crew is a fighter
Not everyone is a navigator cook doctor etc.....
Zoro’s role is sleeping

 

[imacub]

I am ready to be brigaded


The Edgelord

If you would remember Zoro Pre Time Skip he was still a hard ass like he is today but he had a distinctive side to him. From jumping of a rope like Tarzan in Skypeia, mistaking Kaku for Usopp, scolding Nami for being late only to thank her for bringing booze, teasing Sanji and being teased back without wanting to murder him for it... and many more cases. Now let's compare him to Zoro post TS. Post TS Zoro is one of the edgiest characters I have ever seen. This dude barely fucking smiles and when he does it is either A) He gets to cut something and B) He got a new sword. You will very rarely find scenes of Zoro just having a proper laugh. From the top of my head those would be in Dressrosa with Pica or drinking with Law, and I think he laughed in Zou a bit. I am sure someone will find 1 or 2 instances more but compared to all scenes pre TS of him laughing it is very low amount. Everything you can count on fingers of 1 or 2 hands is small amount. Zoro now only laughs when gets the chance to fight someone or cut them. That is some next level borderline Emo stuff. Why did Zoro need to be made into such an Edgelord? Why make him this rabid dog that only laughs when he has something to cut? Why cant he take a joke without wanting to kill the person saying it? Zoro needs to chill out a bit and stop being this guy that craves cutting shit. Let him have a laugh here and there. Zoro lost his flavor, he lost emotions he had. He rarely cries, rarely smiles, rarely feels sad and so on. And once again I am sure some of you will come in here showing me panel or two of this not being the case. But like I said earlier, it is such a low amount compared to pre TS. I believe Oda made Zoro so edgy to attract edgy teen kids that like characters like that. Just a 1 emotion man wanting to cut shit. This brings us to the next point.
​

Firstly, i dont use slang terms like edgy, emo, or whatever it is

so let's get straight into the points. As many have mentioned some instances where zoro genuinely laughed, now the real question is

"What's bad about zoro laugh less than he was Pre TS"?

This is New World that we are talking, the most ruthless and fierceful region among any other places in One Piece. Are you seriously expecting zoro to be less serious Post Time Skip? Actually this what made zoro became better coming out of the timeskip character wise in my opinion, Sanji has his gag worse, luffy too still has his childish act, what about zoro? He knows and he understands, that's why he is now more serious than he was pre TS, and how can you think this is bad? This also proves that he deserves to be the Vice Captain
​

The One Trick Pony

Quickly - Besides Zoro cutting stuff what else does he do in the crew?

The answer is nothing; I suppose he has a role Vice Captain but Zoro only acted few times as such. In Punk Hazard he told Luffy to get serious considering the stakes and Luffy through New World has been nothing but selfish and reckless. Zoro as Vice Captain should reel Luffy in and keep him at check and not make him to dumb stuff that put the crew in jeopardy. Zoro does bare minimum to keep Luffy in check. Hell even few chapters ago he warned Luffy to get serious after Luffy got a fireball in his face and what does Luffy do? Goes G4 super early and wastes his Haki and now Zoro has to baby sit him.
​

I already mentioned it, also how can you consider it zoro's mistake when it is luffy's? this is honestly a ludicrous claim

In Dressrosa he did lead people to try and stall the birdcage and to that I give him props. In Zou he did voice his opinion how Sanji should be left which to me was the most ridiculous thing he did post TS. Sanji's situation was nothing more than Robin 2.0 and Zoro had no objections going to E. Lobby to save her. Meanwhile he suddenly has problems saving Sanji under the premise that Luffy will pick a fight with Big Mom - But Luffy already picked a fight with Big Mom and Zoro was there when Luffy declared war to her. Zoro was in no position to be against getting back Sanji considering he stuck his head for any crew member. and Zoro knows Luffy well enough to know Luffy won't stay calm until Sanji is with them. To me that whole scene was just yikes.

The case is different, Strawhats had no other bussinesses when Robin left the crew, while strawhats was dealing a serious problem when Sanji left the crew, strawhats could have just saved Sanji later after dealing with Kaido realistically. even Robin the smartest crew member knew how dangerous it was to save sanji at that time

And your analogy is plain wrong, Zoro there was trying to prevent any additional problem back in Zou, and now? BM is already the problem, so there is nothing to do but to face her. There is nothing wrong with this

So with Zoro's Vice Captain position being pretty much empty shell considering he does bare minimum about it we are left with an question what does Zoro do in the crew? Sanji cooks, Nami navigates, Robin studies, Choper cures and so on. What does Zoro do? He fights people, that is legit 99% of things Zoro does post TS. He was degraded to Luffy's dog on a leash and when its needed Luffy just goes - GO SICK EM BOY, GO GO. Now I already know what you guys will say - But Beky Zoro did that before Time Skip too. And yes, you would be right - the difference is that Pre Time Skip Zoro had other stuff going for him besides that. Pre Time Skip whenever the crew visited a new island the main question would be - I wonder what every person in the crew will do? Post TS the only question being asked about Zoro is - Who will Zoro fight? If you think I am wrong, just check all Zoro threads here. Now, I understand his ambition is to be WSS but does he really have nothing else going on in his life besides that? If that is enough for you to like Zoro i seriously wish you all the best and enjoy him to the fullest. To me that isn't enough. I preferred Zoro when he had a soul to him, when he wasn't this Edgelord that only wants to fight people. Yea he is cool sometimes but its shell of what he used to be. A much more alive character with less edgy persona.

Zoro's role is also to protect the ship when others are falling asleep, Oda mentioned it in an SBS. And are you implying being loyal to luffy is a bad thing? And most of this is fan's problem, not zoro's, i dont know why would you bring this point in the first place. We are talking about zoro, not zoro's fans

The Soulless character

With last 2 points in mind I'll just say it - Zoro lost his soul as a character. If Sanji lost his morality and sanity, Zoro lost his soul. He was stripped of his personality, of his Vice Captain role and adventures and was transformed into 1 dimensional character whose whole purpose in arcs now is to fight and fight and fight and to be a servant to Luffy and be ready to denounce his dream for him. That is Zoro, the Soulless. And if personally believe Zoro is the reflection of a certain part of his fandom. Quick to lash out, always ready for a conflict and angry af. If you are a chill Zoro fan that enjoys Zoro for who he is you will know about whom I exactly talk about and you will agree with me that is the case. If you are the person that sees yourself in what I said about then this thread will most likely go ape shit crazy. I am not satisfied how Oda took Zoro and stripped him of his personality and made fighting his only personality trait. Zoro was a way better character pre TS and even tho he was a hard ass then too at least he wasn't an Edgelord that only serves to fight people.

Already said it, zoro being more serious is necessary, it's not that zoro losing his soul, he's just being realistic of how much of a threat NW is. Also,
​

I don’t see how being stoic = not having a personality. Zoro is, by the author’s own admission, a Japanese character written by and for a Japanese audience. Have you interacted with Japanese people before? Their culture is naturally far less expressive than Westerners, and imposing your own expectations of how much outward emotion one should express is extremely tone-deaf.

Post timeskip Zoro is more like Mihawk. Mihawk doesn’t smile or laugh often, but when he does, it means something. The likes of Luffy, Usopp, Nami and Chopper emote more than enough for the rest of the crew. Why does everyone need to be the same? There are introverts and extroverts in real life. There are people with multiple hobbies and elite athletes who spend the majority of their time training. Zoro is fine as he is, just give him more interactions with Luffy and Chopper and you’ll see his personality shine through.

​

 

[Doggo]

Janitor spot is open.
Maybe he can use 3 brooms and clean the ship really fast using tatsumaki.
:P

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

No matter how much you want to convince yourself
It’s still not a role

everyone in the crew is a fighter
Not everyone is a navigator cook doctor etc.....
Zoro’s role is sleeping

The only one that's trying to convince themself is you br0. Oda, the guy that writes this manga, says that Zoro's role on the ship is being a fighter of the crew. You can love it, hate it, cry over it, be happy about it, etc, but you cannot change that fact. Your opinion on it is irrelevant because that's a fact.


And as @KiriNigiri already pointed out, other people can cook, but not as good as Sanji thus his role is the cook, other people can navigate, but not as good as Nami hence her role being the navigator. Likewise, other people being able to fight does not mean that they take Zoro's role, or are as good as him or will ever be.

 

[Dark Admiral]

he should loosen up a bit. He is basically becoming Mihawk 2.0 post TS.

 

[Gyro The God]

The only one that's trying to convince themself is you br0. Oda, the guy that writes this manga, says that Zoro's role on the ship is being a fighter of the crew. You can love it, hate it, cry over it, be happy about it, etc, but you cannot change that fact. Your opinion on it is irrelevant because that's a fact.


And as @KiriNigiri already pointed out, other people can cook, but not as good as Sanji thus his role is the cook, other people can navigate, but not as good as Nami hence her role being the navigator. Likewise, other people being able to fight does not mean that they take Zoro's role, or are as good as him or will ever be.

Who else has cooked or navigate constantly in the crew ? NO ONE ( or ever actually I don’t remember anyone besides nami)

who else has fought constantly since the beginning
ALL of them

oda probably said fighter because there is nothing else to give him, cause he does nothing but sleeping

still not a role

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2021

he should loosen up a bit. He is basically becoming Mihawk 2.0 post TS.

At least zoro used to have a personality
Mihawk never had one in the first place

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2021

Who else has cooked or navigate constantly in the crew ? NO ONE ( or ever actually I don’t remember anyone besides nami)

who else has fought constantly since the beginning
ALL of them

Still not a role

oda probably said fighter because there is nothing else to give him, cause he does nothing but sleeping

still not a role

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2021

At least zoro used to have a personality
Mihawk never had one in the first place

 

[Adam 🍎]

My problem with Zoro, or rather most SH's is why change something that was already perfect and replace it with inferior version?

You guys found 6 panels of Zoro smiling and called it a day. Thats it 6, 6 panels spanning over hundreds of chapters and thousands of panels

Post automatically merged: Feb 12, 2021

I don’t see how being stoic = not having a personality. Zoro is, by the author’s own admission, a Japanese character written by and for a Japanese audience. Have you interacted with Japanese people before? Their culture is naturally far less expressive than Westerners, and imposing your own expectations of how much outward emotion one should express is extremely tone-deaf.

Post timeskip Zoro is more like Mihawk. Mihawk doesn’t smile or laugh often, but when he does, it means something. The likes of Luffy, Usopp, Nami and Chopper emote more than enough for the rest of the crew. Why does everyone need to be the same? There are introverts and extroverts in real life. There are people with multiple hobbies and elite athletes who spend the majority of their time training. Zoro is fine as he is, just give him more interactions with Luffy and Chopper and you’ll see his personality shine through.

While you can call zoro reserved you cant deny it is a step back from his old version. And non of the characters besides him are that closed. Even Robin that was, became loose ,wheres Zoro went full on Mihawk

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

Janitor spot is open.
Maybe he can use 3 brooms and clean the ship really fast using tatsumaki.
:P

no, tatsumaki would one shot sanji to death. Zoro strength is too dangerous here. Sanji likes to serve other people, so let's just leave it to sanji

 

[Jo_Ndule]

Zoro is perfect
Mihawk is perfect

What do you expect? These guys believe Mihawk and zoro are one of the best characters ever of OP
That these 2 have the best developmen, personality etc...

Ask them what do these 2 add to the plot? Nothinh
Zoro can be missed in an arc or die, OP will still go on like nothing happened! Same with Mihawk.
You can replace them in any organisation or crew, nothing will change much.

Zoro is so useless beside fights that he couldn't recruit samurai despite boasting, despite everyone doing their best to recruit samurai

 

[style]

Being a fighter is not a role
This is shounan
Everyone is a fighter

It's proper a role instead.
Killer is the combatant of the Kidd Pirates and he's basically a direct parallel to Zoro, both are supernova and on the roof although they aren't captains

Spoiler: Killer Ch 677 and Ch 498

It's not only Killer, ch 607:

Spoiler: Fishman crew

Pekoms and Tamago are combatants as well (check their intro box in chapter 651)

 

[Lion of Olympus]

Here comes the Zoro Defense Squad

 

[Finalbeta]

Zoro is perfect
Mihawk is perfect

What do you expect? These guys believe Mihawk and zoro are one of the best characters ever of OP
That these 2 have the best developmen, personality etc...

Ask them what do these 2 add to the plot? Nothinh
Zoro can be missed in an arc or die, OP will still go on like nothing happened! Same with Mihawk.
You can replace them in any organisation or crew, nothing will change much.

Zoro is so useless beside fights that he couldn't recruit samurai despite boasting, despite everyone doing their best to recruit samurai

Lol Ndule I don't see many calling them perfect.

What did they add to the plot? Mihawk is fundamental for Zoro's development, Zoro would not be Zoro if Mihawk didn't exist... and what did Zoro add? Imagine One Piece languishing its most fashinating character personality wise and time by time feats wise too.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

What load of nonsense

 

[Zenos7]

You guys found 6 panels of Zoro smiling and called it a day. Thats it 6, 6 panels spanning over hundreds of chapters and thousands of panels

couldnt you have made this garbage claim before me and @Rukusho started looking for chopper/zoro interactions?

aint gonna do it again, but this is extremely disingenuous and as many have pointed out, reeks of selective reading/selective memory