Character Discussion Debunking the myths that "Zoro never fought the main villain of an arc" and "Zoros opponents were never close in power compared to Luffy’s opponents"
- Thread starter ZoroSlaysDragonTuna
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Is mentally disturbed a better term?
Because that was his job
The point is Killer playing his role...aka doing his job
He wasn't barking. His character trait hasn't been never talking.
He was already associated by the manga when Oda drew Zoro calling him Kamazou and Killer also responding same.
Clearly because he was no longer under Orochi. You are ignoring the reason Killer became Kamazou...it was all to save Kidd. So why would he react to fodders when he has already gotten his crew back?
It being the main reason is just your assumption. The only fact here is Killer mentioned only his weapons being his nerf in the fight.
When he met Zoro, he'd been working for Orochi for at least a Couple of weeks. Unless you are claiming that he was still traumatized even after at least a couple week of those events (which again isn't proving)... The point doesn't really hold.
You'd also he claiming that Killer couldn't overcome said trauma for multiple weeks even when his goal was to save his captain which again shows you underrating the character you claim to be a fan of
Because that was his job
The point is Killer playing his role...aka doing his job
He wasn't barking. His character trait hasn't been never talking.
He was already associated by the manga when Oda drew Zoro calling him Kamazou and Killer also responding same.
Clearly because he was no longer under Orochi. You are ignoring the reason Killer became Kamazou...it was all to save Kidd. So why would he react to fodders when he has already gotten his crew back?
It being the main reason is just your assumption. The only fact here is Killer mentioned only his weapons being his nerf in the fight.
When he met Zoro, he'd been working for Orochi for at least a Couple of weeks. Unless you are claiming that he was still traumatized even after at least a couple week of those events (which again isn't proving)... The point doesn't really hold.
You'd also he claiming that Killer couldn't overcome said trauma for multiple weeks even when his goal was to save his captain which again shows you underrating the character you claim to be a fan of
▪Let's see Killer nerfs using manga proofs :
1- lacked punishers .
( the only one Killer said )
▪ Zoro nerfs :
1- lacked shusui his strongest sword to date .
2- he is poisoned
3- he is tired / hungry and the first thing he asked Hyori about is if she could give him some foods and after she nursed him the first thing he did is eating not drinking .
4- 2 vs 1 not 1 time but 2 times .
5- protecting Hyori and that little girl.
- Now all this and Killer got destroyed by using a scythe for the first time while killer used it for weeks to accomplish orochi assassination missions and has now a technique related to it that could injure Kaido internally while before that he couldn't do it .
- Killer mini auto machine + Gyukimaru vs Raw strength that could cleave a mountain
- Killer stalemated a 2 sword Zoro not a 2 sword style Zoro .
- Killer couldn't react to onigiri
1- lacked punishers .
( the only one Killer said )
▪ Zoro nerfs :
1- lacked shusui his strongest sword to date .
2- he is poisoned
3- he is tired / hungry and the first thing he asked Hyori about is if she could give him some foods and after she nursed him the first thing he did is eating not drinking .
4- 2 vs 1 not 1 time but 2 times .
5- protecting Hyori and that little girl.
- Now all this and Killer got destroyed by using a scythe for the first time while killer used it for weeks to accomplish orochi assassination missions and has now a technique related to it that could injure Kaido internally while before that he couldn't do it .
- Killer mini auto machine + Gyukimaru vs Raw strength that could cleave a mountain
- Killer stalemated a 2 sword Zoro not a 2 sword style Zoro .
- Killer couldn't react to onigiri
▪Let's see Killer nerfs using manga proofs :
1- lacked punishers .
( the only one Killer said )
▪ Zoro nerfs :
1- lacked shusui his strongest sword to date .
2- he is poisoned
3- he is tired / hungry and the first thing he asked Hyori about is if she could give him some foods and after she nursed him the first thing he did is eating not drinking .
4- 2 vs 1 not 1 time but 2 times .
5- protecting Hyori and that little girl.
- Now all this and Killer got destroyed by using a scythe for the first time while killer used it for weeks to accomplish orochi assassination missions and has now a technique related to it that could injure Kaido internally while before that he couldn't do it .
- Killer mini auto machine + Gyukimaru vs Raw strength that could cleave a mountain
- Killer stalemated a 2 sword Zoro not a 2 sword style Zoro .
- Killer couldn't react to onigiri
1- lacked punishers .
( the only one Killer said )
▪ Zoro nerfs :
1- lacked shusui his strongest sword to date .
2- he is poisoned
3- he is tired / hungry and the first thing he asked Hyori about is if she could give him some foods and after she nursed him the first thing he did is eating not drinking .
4- 2 vs 1 not 1 time but 2 times .
5- protecting Hyori and that little girl.
- Now all this and Killer got destroyed by using a scythe for the first time while killer used it for weeks to accomplish orochi assassination missions and has now a technique related to it that could injure Kaido internally while before that he couldn't do it .
- Killer mini auto machine + Gyukimaru vs Raw strength that could cleave a mountain
- Killer stalemated a 2 sword Zoro not a 2 sword style Zoro .
- Killer couldn't react to onigiri
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Zoro does fight the main villains before but he mostly take on the right hand man. And his opponents was never close to Luffy's opponents. For example, Lucci's Doriki was double of Kaku's Doriki.
Zoro in Dressrosa would beat any YC1 level character
Zoro currently would destroy any YC1 level character
Shushui in itself is an insanely strong blade.
Shushui Zoro at Full Power = YC1+ Level to maybe low top tier if he still has Ashura
Enma Zoro at Full Power = Low Top tier to maybe Admiral level if he still has Ashura
Zoro currently would destroy any YC1 level character
Shushui in itself is an insanely strong blade.
Shushui Zoro at Full Power = YC1+ Level to maybe low top tier if he still has Ashura
Enma Zoro at Full Power = Low Top tier to maybe Admiral level if he still has Ashura
What myth?
Kuro solos his entire crew put together
Arlong solos his crew
Crocodile solos Daz, Bon Clay, Mr.3 etc. put together
Enel solos all the priests put together
Lucci solos Kaku and Jyabura
Doflamingo solos Pica, Diamante, Trebol put together
You can argue circumstances all you want, but the quality of opponents don't compare, Zoro's resume is a whole lot of hot trash, wish it wasn't the case but it is what it is. Wano will probably be his first big catch on his way to Mihawk, the rest of his opponents are scrubs galore compared to the big names Luffy has defeated.
You want to know how bad it is? Zoro by 2021 has arguably yet to beat an opponent as big a threat in the OPverse as Luffy did back in 2001. I'm talking about Crocodile if you missed it. Zoro is literally 20 years behind Luffy......"myth" lmfao dkm.
Kuro solos his entire crew put together
Arlong solos his crew
Crocodile solos Daz, Bon Clay, Mr.3 etc. put together
Enel solos all the priests put together
Lucci solos Kaku and Jyabura
Doflamingo solos Pica, Diamante, Trebol put together
You can argue circumstances all you want, but the quality of opponents don't compare, Zoro's resume is a whole lot of hot trash, wish it wasn't the case but it is what it is. Wano will probably be his first big catch on his way to Mihawk, the rest of his opponents are scrubs galore compared to the big names Luffy has defeated.
You want to know how bad it is? Zoro by 2021 has arguably yet to beat an opponent as big a threat in the OPverse as Luffy did back in 2001. I'm talking about Crocodile if you missed it. Zoro is literally 20 years behind Luffy......"myth" lmfao dkm.
It is, is different from disable
His job was completing the mission, him taking it personal and actually defending Orochi's name doesn't point at stinks like shit to me
Take a look at Killer in these situations
Collected, taciturn, smart, knowledgeable
And take a look at Kamazo here
Unrestrained, loud, that strange act like a true Orochi servant when he had no reason at all to mention it, after everything he passed
Difference is clear to me
They met each others with those names
Exactly, that answers the question you asked me before 'why is he now laughing but normal?': cause he now has the most important thing back
What's the point of this? Ebisu town people are still suffering mentally since lord knows how many years, being fed with a SMILE destroys you psychologically that's one of the biggest reasons for which this Onigashima war is happening.
Killer's case was amplified due to his backstory, as evidenced in Udon.
Being my favourite character doesn't mean something, I like him cause I see him objectively.
Is not a matter of underrating him, overcoming a trauma isn't easy shit in One Piece as shown in multiple occasions (Luffy after MF war being the most notorious example), Killer didn't even have someone to help him since was completely separeted from his Captain and his crew.
Kamazo is the shadow of Killer, him fighting till the end even when on the edge of his breakdown and later showed during his breakdown are probably the main reasons he became my favourite character together with Kidd.
Some "wins" are not highlighted in a panel.
If you don't see my point, we can close it here
His job was completing the mission, him taking it personal and actually defending Orochi's name doesn't point at stinks like shit to me
Take a look at Killer in these situations
And take a look at Kamazo here
Difference is clear to me
They met each others with those names
Exactly, that answers the question you asked me before 'why is he now laughing but normal?': cause he now has the most important thing back
What's the point of this? Ebisu town people are still suffering mentally since lord knows how many years, being fed with a SMILE destroys you psychologically that's one of the biggest reasons for which this Onigashima war is happening.
Killer's case was amplified due to his backstory, as evidenced in Udon.
Being my favourite character doesn't mean something, I like him cause I see him objectively.
Is not a matter of underrating him, overcoming a trauma isn't easy shit in One Piece as shown in multiple occasions (Luffy after MF war being the most notorious example), Killer didn't even have someone to help him since was completely separeted from his Captain and his crew.
Kamazo is the shadow of Killer, him fighting till the end even when on the edge of his breakdown and later showed during his breakdown are probably the main reasons he became my favourite character together with Kidd.
Some "wins" are not highlighted in a panel.
If you don't see my point, we can close it here
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Fair enough
No his job is working for Orochi which means he is to be loyal to Orochi as his assassin. This is something he I doing for his captain's sake so I don't see how that is such a deal breaker which must be attributed to his mental disturbance.
That really doesn't prove your point though. In the panels you posted for Killer being cool and calm, he is wearing his mask.
In the panel you posted for him barking etc, there aren't even exclamation marks with his speech. Maybe you see it that way because you can see Killer's face unlike the others.
In the end, the answer is already in the panel you've posted. Killer states that he is under orders, emphasizing more and more that he is playing his role as Orochi's assassin.
Not necessarily they are not. They've learned to live with it in their own capacity. Look at Yasu for example. Can you claim he's been mentally disturbed because of Smile all this while to the point that it will affect his judgement? Manga shows otherwise.
It is when you are diminishing Killer's resolve to save his captain.
Yasu was able to overcome that mental disturbance. So why can't Killer?
The argument isn't that Killer was completely fine after what he has gone through because we all know trauma is a thing in One Piece. But the argument is that said trauma did not affect Killer's fighting capabilities proven by the character's own statement. This is also proven by the character still performing well against 2 Yonkou despite still being affected by the Smile fruit.
And? They literally relating themselves to what happened during that time.
If that answers the question then you should know why your point doesn't stand. Because you are basically accepting that my point is valid.
Because if you agree that Killer was fighting to save his Captain which is why he was working for Orochi and why he is now acting normal, then that should prove to you (because you accept the premise) that Killer's behavior wasn't due to being affected by Smile but due to his resolve to save his captain.
No his job is working for Orochi which means he is to be loyal to Orochi as his assassin. This is something he I doing for his captain's sake so I don't see how that is such a deal breaker which must be attributed to his mental disturbance.
Take a look at Killer in these situations
Collected, taciturn, smart, knowledgeable
And take a look at Kamazo here
Unrestrained, loud, that strange act like a true Orochi servant when he had no reason at all to mention it after everything he passed
Difference is clear to me
And take a look at Kamazo here
Difference is clear to me
In the panel you posted for him barking etc, there aren't even exclamation marks with his speech. Maybe you see it that way because you can see Killer's face unlike the others.
In the end, the answer is already in the panel you've posted. Killer states that he is under orders, emphasizing more and more that he is playing his role as Orochi's assassin.
Not necessarily they are not. They've learned to live with it in their own capacity. Look at Yasu for example. Can you claim he's been mentally disturbed because of Smile all this while to the point that it will affect his judgement? Manga shows otherwise.
It is when you are diminishing Killer's resolve to save his captain.
Yasu was able to overcome that mental disturbance. So why can't Killer?
The argument isn't that Killer was completely fine after what he has gone through because we all know trauma is a thing in One Piece. But the argument is that said trauma did not affect Killer's fighting capabilities proven by the character's own statement. This is also proven by the character still performing well against 2 Yonkou despite still being affected by the Smile fruit.
And? They literally relating themselves to what happened during that time.
If that answers the question then you should know why your point doesn't stand. Because you are basically accepting that my point is valid.
Because if you agree that Killer was fighting to save his Captain which is why he was working for Orochi and why he is now acting normal, then that should prove to you (because you accept the premise) that Killer's behavior wasn't due to being affected by Smile but due to his resolve to save his captain.
Putting aside the power level stuff, I really like how Oda approaches Zoro's opponents. They are usually not villains he holds personal animosity towards. Zoro is a student on his journey to become the best, and adopts any encounter in battle as a learning experience. He would occasionally develop a mutual respect for his opponent, either for giving a good fight, becoming stronger through the process, or just gaining something of value from the exchange, such as character wise.
It is great, though, how most of his opponents are still relevant in some ways. They are individuals that have carved a mark in history, or in the process of carving ones of their own, or return as reliable allies.
It is great, though, how most of his opponents are still relevant in some ways. They are individuals that have carved a mark in history, or in the process of carving ones of their own, or return as reliable allies.
Putting aside the power level stuff, I really like how Oda approaches Zoro's opponents. They are usually not villains he holds personal animosity towards. Zoro is a student on his journey to become the best, and adopts any encounter in battle as a learning experience. He would occasionally develop a mutual respect for his opponent, either for giving a good fight, becoming stronger through the process, or just taking gaining something of value from the fight, strength or character wise.
It is great, though, how most of his opponents are still relevant in some ways. They are individuals that have carved a mark in history, or in the process of carving ones of their own, or return as reliable allies.
It is great, though, how most of his opponents are still relevant in some ways. They are individuals that have carved a mark in history, or in the process of carving ones of their own, or return as reliable allies.