The only breath he learned how to cut was the breath of steel.
That's the only way he was able to apply CoA in pre-time skip.
His time skip helped him be able to learn to cut the breath of anything, which is why in Dressrosa he says he can cut anything.
This is also why he also was able to learn how to cut the breath of fire.
Also, I'd like to share these examples of Zoro's CoA pre skip being limited to cutting the breath of steel.
Since it's not steel/iron, he isn't able to cut that breath. The same way he isn't able to cut the breath of thunder, the breath of light, the breath of ice, etc.
Or even here against Kaku when he uses Shi Shi Sonson.
Zoro decides to "cut steel" to try and cut Kaku's "steel body" (aka Tekkai) however Kaku decides to NOT use Tekkai and the cut ends up not cutting him once again.
>>>Most<<< of the people that insists that "haki is a good system and was thought out since the beginning" are >>>mostly<<< those who go giggling thinking Zoro used Haki way back in Alabasta, to show that "Zoro is better than Luffy. Even learned Ryou on his own prior", but immediately got destroyed by Enel on the following saga, and then couldnt do shit to Aokiji, and so on. Him using "haki" in Alabasta had ZERO impact on how they dealt with Logia types. Even in later stages, during BB vs Ace, BB states that one of the reasons he wanted the Yami Yami, was to counter the DFs abilities, including Logia types (demonstrating that by grabbing and punching Ace).
Oda truly invented Haki (and when I say "Haki" here, i refer ONLY to >>>>ARMAMENT<<<<) only at some point after Ennies Lobby, because he thought it would give too much trouble give magical kairouseki items to everyone, or think of gimmicks to fight every single Logia type the SH's would encounter. Garp's punch looked more like a gag punch like Nami's, than actual special power. No wonder out of nowhere there's the "blackening".
Zoro used something that Oda later retconned into Haki.
Lucci didn't use "inner destruction". He just used some weird ass Rokushiki ability.
The "black blade" shenanigan was also a retcon.
Oda is really good at worldbuilding, but he also sometimes just like to create things "because they look cool" completey disregarding if they make sense with what was told in the story or not. "Wouldnt it be cool if that thing Zoro used to cut steel was the Ryou the samurais talk about?" "Sure Oda, but what about the Logia types he couldnt hit?" "Just let people assume he didnt master it. People will accept whatever I throw at them, if it's something that makes Zoro look cool. Don't speak ill of Zoro. Hurr Durr".
Armament Haki and all its "forms" are the worst case.
I don't see a lot of people defending Sanji's endeavor to the bath house and looking for prostitutes during the raid.
I don't see a lot of people defending Luffy's still failed Gear4 during the rooftop fight.
But boy do I see a lot of people defending retcons just because they make Zoro look cooler.
I won't tag a single soul. But boy I can already sense the "ignores" and "quotes" because the "shoe fits".
See y'all later this week at the 1005 Spoiler Discussion thread.
The only breath he learned how to cut was the breath of steel.
That's the only way he was able to apply CoA in pre-time skip.
His time skip helped him be able to learn to cut the breath of anything, which is why in Dressrosa he says he can cut anything.
This is also why he also was able to learn how to cut the breath of fire.
Also, I'd like to share these examples of Zoro's CoA pre skip being limited to cutting the breath of steel.
Since it's not steel/iron, he isn't able to cut that breath. The same way he isn't able to cut the breath of thunder, the breath of light, the breath of ice, etc.
Or even here against Kaku when he uses Shi Shi Sonson.
Zoro decides to "cut steel" to try and cut Kaku's "steel body" (aka Tekkai) however Kaku decides to NOT use Tekkai and the cut ends up not cutting him once again.
Uh, Chapters 939 and 947. When Hyogoro explicitly tells you that the invisible power which lets you cut the breath of things or to cut nothing at all is known as Ryuo/Haki.
That's when we saw the proof.
Uh, Chapters 939 and 947. When Hyogoro explicitly tells you that the invisible power which lets you cut the breath of things or to cut nothing at all is known as Ryuo/Haki.
That's when we saw the proof.
Isn't learning Armament mid-fight, the same as powering up mid-fight?
Regardless,
194-5: Zoro learns the concept of cutting steel and of cutting nothing which Koushiro explained to him.
939: Hyo says that the concept of cutting steel and cutting nothing is a Wano concept known as Ryuo
947: Hyo says Ryuo is Haki.
Isn't learning Armament mid-fight, the same as powering up mid-fight?
Regardless,
194-5: Zoro learns the concept of cutting steel and of cutting nothing which Koushiro explained to him.
939: Hyo says that the concept of cutting steel and cutting nothing is a Wano concept known as Ryuo
947: Hyo says Ryuo is Haki.
Isn't learning Armament mid-fight, the same as powering up mid-fight?
Regardless,
194-5: Zoro learns the concept of cutting steel and of cutting nothing which Koushiro explained to him.
939: Hyo says that the concept of cutting steel and cutting nothing is a Wano concept known as Ryuo
947: Hyo says Ryuo is Haki.
If Zoro knew ryo since alabasta‚ he should have beaten crocodile‚ enel‚ Aokiji and Kizaru or at least hurt them. He didn't. If you don't manage to explain why he didn't if he had so strong ryo then your theory is all no facts
If Zoro knew ryo since alabasta‚ he should have beaten crocodile‚ enel‚ Aokiji and Kizaru or at least hurt them. He didn't. If you don't manage to explain why he didn't if he had so strong ryo then your theory is all no facts
He has armament Haki but can only use it to cut steel.
Again, it's not that hard to understand.
You're coming in with the assumption that having Armament means you've already learned to cut the breath of everything, which is incorrect. This is proven wrong by Zoro wanting to learn to cut fire AFTER knowing armament Haki since it's post-time skip.
Zoro's CoA moment was just like Luffy's CoC bursts and Koby/Usopp CoO scenes, they simply did not control it but still used haki for those SPECIFIC moments.
There's nothing difficult to understand about that scene wether we think it's a retcon or not.
He has armament Haki but can only use it to cut steel.
Again, it's not that hard to understand.
You're coming in with the assumption that having Armament means you've already learned to cut the breath of everything, which is incorrect. This is proven wrong by Zoro wanting to learn to cut fire AFTER knowing armament Haki since it's post-time skip.
Zoro's CoA moment was just like Luffy's CoC bursts and Koby/Usopp CoO scenes, they simply did not control it but still used haki for those SPECIFIC moments.
There's nothing difficult to understand about that scene wether we think it's a retcon or not.
I will play along and assume it was a fluke. He didn't master it till fishman island so I don't see how it that big thing and that is assuming I am playing along
If badass Zoro had it mastered as part of his arsenal I would assume crocodile Enel Kizaru and Aokiji would have been much easier to deal with. So just a fluke...assuming I play along that it was coa
In my opinion, Oda probably expected to introduce at some point his own version of qi as it's almost a cliché in shonen manga. That said, there's no real basis to believe he had haki, as we know it, planned since chapter 1; to begin with, because it's a very messy system even today with lots of, if not inconsistencies, certainly lazy concepts.
One Piece used to put a lot of emphasis on counters, specific properties of powers that came in handy, and so on. Luffy defeated Enel because he's made of rubber, Crocodile was weak to water, Buggy laughed at Zoro's swordsmanship, Dorry and Brogy were trapped by Mr. 3, and so on. So this may sound absurd in retrospective, but I'm not convinced that he had in mind a qi-like power capable of hurting logias when he first introduced them; in fact, it wouldn't surprise me that characters like Shanks, Mihawk, Garp... were at some point meant to control elemmental powers (such as diable jambe, thunder tempo, etc.) that would indeed affect logias through their natural counter; this is still a thing, indeed, since Nami could damage Monet with a heat ball. That said, let's not make the mistake of assuming that armament haki, as we know it, was the only way possible to achieve this: something like a way more basic system in which a strong will was ultimately capable of subduing the devil of the fruit and nullify intangibility, for example, is still something the author could have come up with.
On the other hand, the breath of things that Zoro used in Arabasta was clearly not meant to be haki but a swordsmanship ability by itself. I'm actually confused by some users really trying to put Hyogoro's speech as an argument that Oda had it planned as haki all along. First, because it's logically absurd and pretty much a petitio principii; second, because it ignores the obvious inconsistencies in this retconning and any effort to makes some sense out of it ends up with ad hoc rationalizations that don't even begin to cover the holes in the concept. So let's get this right: Zoro didn't use haki in Arabasta as we read the arc twenty years ago, and using Hyogoro's explanation to support that he did is either dishonest or incredibly naive for an adult mind.
All of that said, I feel like Oda tends to simplify some of his previously established powers as haki. I think Shanks simply intimidated the sea king, I believe mantra was meant to be mantra and that's it, the breath of things doesn't even fit in haki unless you apply some cherry picking and ignore inconsistencies, and even rokushiki is at risk of becoming some weak, in training version of it. At some point during the closure of Enies Lobby he started to actually define this idea of a power capable of hurting people like Luffy or logias, hence Sanji stressing the impossibility of Garp damaging his grandson with a mere punch, and in the segment of Sabaody and Amazon Lilly he was convinced to include it for real.
But let's not forget this: Oda is the kind of author that improvises a lot. He changed Whole Cake Island as the arc was already running, he didn't expect Law to become this important in the story, he had different plans to Ace as when he'd die, and so on; and yet, he usually incorporates his improvisations well enough (the Supernova being the best example of this). So, considering this scenario, how can we have any confidence on the assumption that Oda had haki planned since chapter 1 even though he still keeps making mistakes, inconsistencies, etc. when even drawing it, let alone conceptualizing it? For an author that had this power thought for so, so many years, how is it that it turned out to be a complete mess of a system?
We can see that Luffy is trying to use Armament Haki and what he is trying to learn is not "normal Armament Haki", but that is greater to the normal Armament Haki.
We can see it here that Luffy refers to what Rayleigh used as an advanced version of the normal Haki he has been using this entire time. Basically an invisible armor.
Here's the different translation of the same chapter.
Right here we can see Luffy theorizing that if he learns this application of Haki/Ryou this advanced version of Haki/Ryou, he can bypass Kaido's tough scales.
Then Hyou comes and starts asking about Haki, he states that here in Wano we call what you call Haki, Ryou. He points out that swordsmen use Haki/Ryou to cut what they want to cut and not cut what they do not want to cut, then he states he was known as mighty swordsman back in the day and might know that technique Luffy is referring to.
Here's the better visual of Hyo's words in chapter 939.
We can see here Hyou performs the application of Ryou that Luffy was referring to. Mind you that this is an application of Ryou, a more advanced type of Ryou, and not just Ryou which is Haki (Armament Haki specifically) in Wano.
We can see here, that Hyou refers to Ryou as Haki in this panel. Similar to how Skypieans calling Observation Haki as Mantra in Skypiea. And start teaching Luffy this specific application of Ryou.
In this panel we can see Luffy performing something different than that of what Hyou was teaching him, and that this is not what Rayleigh used on the elephant.
Hyou is surprised that Luffy used what he used, and is filled with tremendous amounts of confidence in Luffy, again that just a minute ago he was ready to die and was out of hope. Now as soon as Luffy used this power, he is confident in that Luffy, (Luffy told him about how Big Mom is equivalent to Kaido and that she is an emperor in chapter 946) with his new power, can stop Big Mom. But unluckily for Luffy, he could not remember how he pulled off that move as of now.
Here Hyou refers to what he has been teaching Luffy as an application of Ryou that is superior to that of normal Armament Haki. But he states in his words that the power that Luffy used is a much more advanced/more powerful than the thing he has been teaching Luffy.
Hyou then explains the different forms of Advanced versions of Armament Haki, he states that what he can teach of Haki, or the application of Haki that he has been teaching Luffy is that which you cover your black armament in a Haki field, he stated that it can be used as both defense and offense and is very effective, it hits the enemy with emitting the Haki from the body outwards. But he states that when you go a level above that, instead of just pushing the Haki out and hitting the person, you can infuse into the enemy and destroy them from within. He states that this is much more powerful than the application that he was teaching Luffy all along.
As you can see here, he tells Luffy that he broke the collars from within by Luffy's haki, he tells Luffy that if he can use that level of Haki, then he basically already knows how to use the application he was teaching him all along since to infuse Haki inside out of an opponent, you need to first know how to infuse yourself with outward Haki. But that Luffy already did it unconsciously.
After Luffy's training we can see Luffy showing off that he has now the ability to destroy things without touching, and emitting Haki outwards, the application of Haki/Ryou Hyou was teaching him.
And in this chapter we can see Luffy destroying the cuffs of Yamato from within, and emitting his Haki inside out. Basically showing us that Luffy is now capable of doing this more advanced version of Armament Haki.
So basically in conclusion there are 3 known levels of Armament Haki/Ryou
Level 1 - Normal Armament Haki/Ryou that Luffy used most of post time skip
This is basically the lowest level of Armament Haki, it used by essentially anyone who knows Armament Haki. It increases your defense and offense more. Swordsmen use this Haki to cut what they need to and not cut what they do not want to, Zoro basically showed us a glimpse of Armament Haki usage pre-TS (Breath Of All Things), but sadly he states he couldn't do it again until time-skip. We see that he could not cut Enel or Aokiji, but if he was able to use Armament Haki again he could at least hit them. So we could say that Zoro did not use any form of Haki pre-timeskip.
Level 2 - Emission of Haki/Ryou also can be referred to as Advanced Ryou/Flowing Haki
This is the application of Ryou that Hyou was trying to teach Luffy, and also what Luffy referred to as Advanced Armament Haki and what Rayleigh first used. This allows the user to emit Haki with no medium, so basically you can hit someone without using your fist. This is stated by Hyou that it increases you defense and offense tremendously. This form of Haki allows you to bypass tough defense that normal Armament Haki can't, like Big Mom's skin or Kaido's tough scales. But as as seen in chapter 993, you need the strength to back this skill or else your cuts/punches will be took weak even if it bypasses the tough defense.
Level 3 - Emitting Haki/Ryou inside an opponent/object, and destroy them inside out. The highest level of Armament Haki/Ryou, (more advanced version of Ryou/Haki) or some of you might called it "Internal Destruction Haki"
So this Haki is the application of Ryou that Luffy used to break the collars and Hyo's and also Yamato's cuffs. Rayleigh also used this pre-TS to remove Camie's collar. This is taking the emitted Haki from stage two and emitting it inside an opponent/object and destroying them inside out. It is stated to be much more powerful than stage by Hyou, and gave someone as old as Hyo enough confidence in Luffy stopping a Yonko equivalent to Kaido that he himself knows the strength of. (In order to know this level of Haki, you need to learn level 2 Armament Haki first).
For Zoro's cases
All of these above are demonstration of Haki. Zoro talking about how hard a black blade is. Zoro sensing falling objects are a glimpse of what Haki is but he couldn't grasp it until post-timeskip. Zoro didn't cut Monet because he wasn't using Haki. Zoro cuts through Pica's FBH because Zoro's haki is superior to his. Zoro tamed Enma because of his better haki control, etc. Zoro definitely have normal Armament Haki/Ryou before he got Enma. Enma basically improves Zoro's haki even more.
Zoro demonstrates how haki works in Alabasta (BOAT) but couldn't fully control it. Sanji also show some kinds of Observation Haki pre-timeskip where he hears Nami from a long distance across the island in Little Garden arc and he shows Armament Haki aura on his body against Absalom in Thriller Bark. Hope this help for some of y'all.
No, because Zoro used Armament Haki without knowing it. He views it as a technique to cut Steel, not something which bypasses Devil Fruits or cuts other elements like that wall in Enies Lobby.
He never learns to cut any other breath pre-timeskip, because the only time he ever learned was when he needed to against Mr. 1.
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Since it's not steel/iron, he isn't able to cut that breath. The same way he isn't able to cut the breath of thunder, the breath of light, the breath of ice, etc.
Zoro decides to "cut steel" to try and cut Kaku's "steel body" (aka Tekkai) however Kaku decides to NOT use Tekkai and the cut ends up not cutting him once again.
