Powers & Abilities Do you think Oda planned haki since chapter 1 ?

Charlotte Horchata

Charlotte Horchata

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#81
#81
Zoro D Goat said:
Let me repost this real quick.

There are many different levels of Ryou.
We can see that Luffy is trying to use Armament Haki and what he is trying to learn is not "normal Armament Haki", but that is greater to the normal Armament Haki.

We can see it here that Luffy refers to what Rayleigh used as an advanced version of the normal Haki he has been using this entire time. Basically an invisible armor.

Here's the different translation of the same chapter.

Right here we can see Luffy theorizing that if he learns this application of Haki/Ryou this advanced version of Haki/Ryou, he can bypass Kaido's tough scales.

Then Hyou comes and starts asking about Haki, he states that here in Wano we call what you call Haki, Ryou. He points out that swordsmen use Haki/Ryou to cut what they want to cut and not cut what they do not want to cut, then he states he was known as mighty swordsman back in the day and might know that technique Luffy is referring to.

Here's the better visual of Hyo's words in chapter 939.

We can see here Hyou performs the application of Ryou that Luffy was referring to. Mind you that this is an application of Ryou, a more advanced type of Ryou, and not just Ryou which is Haki (Armament Haki specifically) in Wano.

We can see here, that Hyou refers to Ryou as Haki in this panel. Similar to how Skypieans calling Observation Haki as Mantra in Skypiea. And start teaching Luffy this specific application of Ryou.

In this panel we can see Luffy performing something different than that of what Hyou was teaching him, and that this is not what Rayleigh used on the elephant.

Hyou is surprised that Luffy used what he used, and is filled with tremendous amounts of confidence in Luffy, again that just a minute ago he was ready to die and was out of hope. Now as soon as Luffy used this power, he is confident in that Luffy, (Luffy told him about how Big Mom is equivalent to Kaido and that she is an emperor in chapter 946) with his new power, can stop Big Mom. But unluckily for Luffy, he could not remember how he pulled off that move as of now.

Here Hyou refers to what he has been teaching Luffy as an application of Ryou that is superior to that of normal Armament Haki. But he states in his words that the power that Luffy used is a much more advanced/more powerful than the thing he has been teaching Luffy.

Hyou then explains the different forms of Advanced versions of Armament Haki, he states that what he can teach of Haki, or the application of Haki that he has been teaching Luffy is that which you cover your black armament in a Haki field, he stated that it can be used as both defense and offense and is very effective, it hits the enemy with emitting the Haki from the body outwards. But he states that when you go a level above that, instead of just pushing the Haki out and hitting the person, you can infuse into the enemy and destroy them from within. He states that this is much more powerful than the application that he was teaching Luffy all along.

As you can see here, he tells Luffy that he broke the collars from within by Luffy's haki, he tells Luffy that if he can use that level of Haki, then he basically already knows how to use the application he was teaching him all along since to infuse Haki inside out of an opponent, you need to first know how to infuse yourself with outward Haki. But that Luffy already did it unconsciously.

After Luffy's training we can see Luffy showing off that he has now the ability to destroy things without touching, and emitting Haki outwards, the application of Haki/Ryou Hyou was teaching him.

And in this chapter we can see Luffy destroying the cuffs of Yamato from within, and emitting his Haki inside out. Basically showing us that Luffy is now capable of doing this more advanced version of Armament Haki.

So basically in conclusion there are 3 known levels of Armament Haki/Ryou

Level 1 - Normal Armament Haki/Ryou that Luffy used most of post time skip

This is basically the lowest level of Armament Haki, it used by essentially anyone who knows Armament Haki. It increases your defense and offense more. Swordsmen use this Haki to cut what they need to and not cut what they do not want to, Zoro basically showed us a glimpse of Armament Haki usage pre-TS (Breath Of All Things), but sadly he states he couldn't do it again until time-skip. We see that he could not cut Enel or Aokiji, but if he was able to use Armament Haki again he could at least hit them. So we could say that Zoro did not use any form of Haki pre-timeskip.

Level 2 - Emission of Haki/Ryou also can be referred to as Advanced Ryou/Flowing Haki

This is the application of Ryou that Hyou was trying to teach Luffy, and also what Luffy referred to as Advanced Armament Haki and what Rayleigh first used. This allows the user to emit Haki with no medium, so basically you can hit someone without using your fist. This is stated by Hyou that it increases you defense and offense tremendously. This form of Haki allows you to bypass tough defense that normal Armament Haki can't, like Big Mom's skin or Kaido's tough scales. But as as seen in chapter 993, you need the strength to back this skill or else your cuts/punches will be took weak even if it bypasses the tough defense.

Level 3 - Emitting Haki/Ryou inside an opponent/object, and destroy them inside out. The highest level of Armament Haki/Ryou, (more advanced version of Ryou/Haki) or some of you might called it "Internal Destruction Haki"

So this Haki is the application of Ryou that Luffy used to break the collars and Hyo's and also Yamato's cuffs. Rayleigh also used this pre-TS to remove Camie's collar. This is taking the emitted Haki from stage two and emitting it inside an opponent/object and destroying them inside out. It is stated to be much more powerful than stage by Hyou, and gave someone as old as Hyo enough confidence in Luffy stopping a Yonko equivalent to Kaido that he himself knows the strength of. (In order to know this level of Haki, you need to learn level 2 Armament Haki first).

For Zoro's cases








All of these above are demonstration of Haki. Zoro talking about how hard a black blade is. Zoro sensing falling objects are a glimpse of what Haki is but he couldn't grasp it until post-timeskip. Zoro didn't cut Monet because he wasn't using Haki. Zoro cuts through Pica's FBH because Zoro's haki is superior to his. Zoro tamed Enma because of his better haki control, etc. Zoro definitely have normal Armament Haki/Ryou before he got Enma. Enma basically improves Zoro's haki even more.


Zoro demonstrates how haki works in Alabasta (BOAT) but couldn't fully control it. Sanji also show some kinds of Observation Haki pre-timeskip where he hears Nami from a long distance across the island in Little Garden arc and he shows Armament Haki aura on his body against Absalom in Thriller Bark. Hope this help for some of y'all.:kayneshrug:
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The thing is it was crystal clear that, in Koshiro's explanation, what allowed the swordsman to cut at choice was his ability to connect his will to the specific breath of what he wanted to cut and channel it through the sword in order to cut it (or not). Literally nowhere is it addressed what the breath of things truly is and it doesn't fit at all in haki: inanimate objects falling can't be detected with observation haki, just like Enel couldn't dodge attacks lacking a living will behind it; Hyogoro's explanation only speaks of swordsmen channeling their will to their swords but not how this has anything to do with the breath of the objects meant to cut; and, what's even more important, trying to rationalize those two abilities (hearing the breath of something and passing your will to your sword) as different usages of haki challenges the very basic fact that cutting steel (or whatever) was never depicted as the sum of two abilities but one power alone.
 
Garps tekkai

Garps tekkai

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#82
#82
He had it planned, that's for sure.
Next to the more prominent examples, he also had Crocodile thinking that Luffy might be able to use it, when Luffy first hit him with water. He's not name dropping there, but it's heavily implied.
He also introduced Smoker and his smoke fruit before Ch. 100. During Skypia CoO was practically introduced.

CoO usage is just not that greatly portrayed and the blackening effect of CoA only came into the game after the timeskip (we are experiencing the world from Luffy's perspective) .
All in all the concept is still well thought through tho.
 
Warchief Sanji D Goat

Warchief Sanji D Goat

Zest Demon!😈
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#83
#83
Charlotte Horchata said:
The thing is it was crystal clear that, in Koshiro's explanation, what allowed the swordsman to cut at choice was his ability to connect his will to the specific breath of what he wanted to cut and channel it through the sword in order to cut it (or not). Literally nowhere is it ever addressed what the breath of things truly is and it doesn't fit at all in haki: inanimate objects falling can't be detected with observation haki, just like Enel couldn't dodge attacks lacking a living will behind it; Hyogoro's explanation only speaks of swordsmen channeling their will to their swords but not how this has anything to do with the breath of the objects meant to cut; and, what's even more important, trying to rationalize those two abilities (hearing the breath of something and passing your will to your sword) as different usages of haki challenges the very basic fact that cutting steel (or whatever) was never depicted as the sum of two abilities but one power alone.
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I think you could be right. I put BOAT in the same category as Haki for now because it's seems out of nowhere and never got a clear explanation.
 
Charlotte Horchata

Charlotte Horchata

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#84
#84
Zoro D Goat said:
I think you could be right. I put BOAT in the same category as Haki for now because it's seems out of nowhere and never got a clear explanation.
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The thing is that the explanation of the breath of things was as clear as that of haki itself: it's just a magical power that exists in One Piece. That should be enough (let's not pretend haki is explained because so far it's just taxonomized), but for some reason Oda felt like turning the only thing interesting about his swordsmanship into haki even though it still makes zero sense as such.
 
wereng99

wereng99

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#85
#85
Zoro D Goat said:
I think you could be right. I put BOAT in the same category as Haki for now because it's seems out of nowhere and never got a clear explanation.
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it doesn't matter if there's explanation or not, you couldn't even process the said explanation either way. i think that you just suited to make baseless assumptions etc etc..

but on serious note this haki thing is messy af anyway.
 
L

Lightbolt

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#87
#87
spawn said:
No, because Zoro used Armament Haki without knowing it. He views it as a technique to cut Steel, not something which bypasses Devil Fruits or cuts other elements like that wall in Enies Lobby.

He never learns to cut any other breath pre-timeskip, because the only time he ever learned was when he needed to against Mr. 1.
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Give me any panel where any armament experienced user says armament can be used for specific devil fruits.
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#90
#90
Doggo said:
He introduced Logia early, gave 4 ways of fighting them.
Counter Element. (the third Logia we saw, Ace, was defeated because Magma>Fire)
Kairouseki. (Appeared together with Smoker, the first Logia we saw, put in his Jitte. He was trapped inside the Kairouseki cage in Alabasta. So Kairouseki works against Logias).
Gimmick, like water for Croc, or rubber for Enel. (The second and fourth Logias we saw)
And he also introduced the Yami Yami no Mi.

4 ways to deal with Logias that don't rely on Haki were introduced.
But sure, he created CoA as soon as he created the Logias.
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I gave you straight question, One Piece was planned so that Pirate King & Yonko rely on Kairoseki to fight Marine Captain Smoker?
 
Salah WG

Salah WG

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#93
#93
Charlotte Horchata said:
Your question is biased because you assume that armament haki was the only thing Oda would come up with, apart from kairoseki, for those characters to fight "Marine Captain Smoker". You are falling into circular reasoning here.
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I said it wasn't necessarily called "Armament" or "Haki" or whatever
But there was definitely an "Energy" that Oda decided to use as Counter for DFs
That DF Counter Concept got updated over time to become the Haki we know of now
 
T

trav

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#94
#94
pretty early on I would say.
not in the way it is today, but the general concept of it.

some logia do not have an elemental weakness at all so there always had to be some way to harm them or defend vs them.
this goes back as far as logue town when Dragon kept Smoker in check.
 
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