Versus Battle Gaimou Versus Man’U

[Elder Lee Hung]

Can we really take Manu's word for granted lol? Because Manu himself never confronted Kanmei:

I think he's being sarcastic since Kanmei, the strongest in China's defeat by Moubu spread to all states and the soldiers mentioned how he's just provoking Moubu to go all out. The panel before that even shows how the Qin soldiers were shocked that Moubu was knocked off his horse when not even Kanmei could do that.

I won't push for Manu > Kanmei as a fact though until we see more Manumal feats lol.

I don’t see Man’U as someone who would claim to be weaker than Kanmei unless he knew for sure that it was true lol. And Kanmei was brutally strong, he severely overpowered Moubu much harder than Man’U did:

Spoiler

^In that last panel, if Kanmei would’ve kept attacking, it’s highly likely he would’ve killed Moubu.

Plus there’s the whole Oukotsu thing. Kanmei was a Chu Great General and second in command of all of Chu’s military. I think people equate Moubu defeating Kanmei to Moubu growing stronger than Kanmei, but those things are not the same. I’ve never thought Moubu grew stronger than Kanmei and Man’U validated that thought for me lol.

Yeah Man’U was provoking Moubu but I can’t see him lying about being weaker than Kanmei to do that.

 

[Owl Ki]

Gaimou seems to have weight but Ouki and Renpa clearly disrespected him

Ouki disrespected Gaimou as a General, not as a dualist.

Ouki praised Gokei to high oblivion.

Spoiler: Chapter 66

Ouki would utterly crush Gokei in a dual though. So why does he respect Gokei? Simple, it is because he respects Gokei's overall abilities as a General, not simply as just a dualist.

Gaimou is an enigma amongst Great Generals in that the sole reason that he got to his position of Great General was because of his strength and nothing else. Gaimou has shown no aptitude for tactics of any kind and because of his beliefs regarding warfare, he does not even try to inspire confidence or raise moral in his own troops.

Folk have taken Ouki's statement of "You're not worth the effort of killing" as simply flat out "You're not worth killing".

As @Admiral Lee Hung has pointed out, Ouki has no problem targeting much weaker Generals such as Shoumou or Chou Katsu. So Ouki must have considered them to be worth the effort of killing.

So why not Gaimou?

It is because the effort of killing Gaimou was not worth the reward i.e. it would actually take too much effort to kill Gaimou for a General that does not truly affect the battlefield as a whole.

Shoumou and Chou Katsu are worth the effort because they barely take any effort for Ouki to kill and their armies immediately crumble without them.

Gaimou however would be an extreme diff fight which would potentially put Ouki out of action regardless of if he won or not. Not only that but Jun Sou is the real tactical threat from the Gaimou Army and would lead the army effectively even if Gaimou fell.

So yes, Gaimou is not worth the effort of killing because it would take too much effort to begin with. Lol.

Gaimou really is one of the most unfairly shat on characters in this manga.

 

[Hiragaro]

Yeah you definitely didn’t read my post lol.

4,000 Man Commander Shin could thrash any character in Kingdom the same way he did to Gaimou. Shin said Gaimou’s weight was exactly the same as Renpa’s before thrashing him:

I read your comment and nothing changes what i said. You think that the Shin who fought Gaimou could make Renpa or Ouki struggle? Never.

All you did just now is re-posting the things that were said about him, but i talked in my comment how feats have more weigth than sayings. Shin could have said Gaimou is stronger than Ouki and then make him struggle - how legit would Shin's statement be after that?
Like i said, Gaimou gets alot of hype, but he could not reflect the hype with his feats.
His hype > his feats.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I read your comment and nothing changes what i said. You think that the Shin who fought Gaimou could make Renpa or Ouki struggle?

Yes. Shin would probably thrash Ouki and Renpa even harder than he thrashed Gaimou.

Shin could have said Gaimou is stronger than Ouki and then make him struggle - how legit would Shin's statement be after that?

100%. Gaimou was likely a bit stronger than both Ouki and Renpa.

Like i said, Gaimou gets alot of hype, but he could not reflect the hype with his feats.

To this day, Gaimou’s feat of sending Shin flying hundreds of feet off of his horse is one of the best in the manga. Neither Ouki nor Renpa have feats on that level.

 

[Owl Ki]

I read your comment and nothing changes what i said. You think that the Shin who fought Gaimou could make Renpa or Ouki struggle? Never.

Yes, yes he absolutely would. Lol. Renpa especially considering he was knocked around by Mougou of all people.

Folk really be shitting on Gaimou for not mid diffing 4000 Man Commander Shin, a skilled warrior who has spent his entire life training, fighting and earning victories against numerous infamous dualists but they hype Renpa for losing his horse to and getting consistently sent flying by Mougou, a man who spent his entire career as a General at the back of his army and who never had a single noteworthy kill to his name.

All you did just now is re-posting the things that were said about him, but i talked in my comment how feats have more weigth than sayings. Shin could have said Gaimou is stronger than Ouki and then make him struggle - how legit would Shin's statement be after that?
Like i said, Gaimou gets alot of hype, but he could not reflect the hype with his feats.
His hype > his feats.

The problem here is that you start at a position where you arbitrarily put 4000 Man Commander Shin down thus you put Gaimou down.

Gaimou's feats are good, you just refuse to acknowledge that due to a bias against both Shin and Gaimou.

If we are strictly talking pure feats then Gaimou sending Shin flying for several metres is objectively far more impressive feat wise than anything Ouki has ever done.

 

[Hiragaro]

Gaimou's feats are good, you just refuse to acknowledge that due to a bias against both Shin and Gaimou.

Bias? Then read my first comment mister @Owl Ki

Gaimou could send Shin flying like nobody else, but that kinda lost the hype once Shin could exchange blow for blow with him and make him struggle right after that...so he doesn't looked as impressive as some other top generals.

While Manu had insane hype and his showcase against Moubu was very impressive.
Moubu is a completely different tier than Shin when he fought Gaimou and should still be above him.

As you can see mister @Owl Ki i did acknowledge his feat, it is a good feat, but it is not even close to what Manu did to Moubu. Or what Kanmei did against Moubu.

If we are strictly talking pure feats then Gaimou sending Shin flying for several metres is objectively far more impressive feat wise than anything Ouki has ever done.

Sending a teenager flying is far more impressive than beating Houken in a 1 vs 1?
Aight, i heard enough.
But call me bias lmao

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Sending a teenager flying is far more impressive than beating Houken in a 1 vs 1?

Which Ouki never actually did. It looked like Ouki was about to beat Houken but ultimately their fight was inconclusive.

Also, Gaimou was clearly stronger than Shin while Ouki was directly stated to be weaker, slower, and less skilled of a fighter than Houken.

And of course there’s the fact that Gaimou sent 4,000 Man Commander Shin flying like 3 times farther than Renpa sent 300 Man Commander Shin flying lol.

 

[Owl Ki]

As you can see mister @Owl Ki i did acknowledge his feat, it is a good feat, but it is not even close to what Manu did to Moubu. Or what Kanmei did against Moubu.

Which you then immediately went on to disregard because you arbitrarily rank 4000 Man Commander Shin as being a metaphorical ant compared to Top Tier Generals (of which you used Ouki and Renpa as examples) and then using that to downgrade Gaimou.

Sending a teenager flying is far more impressive than beating Houken in a 1 vs 1?
Aight, i heard enough.
But call me bias lmao

See, this is bias when you reduce Shin, an accomplished 4000 Man Commander who has dedicated his entire life to duelling, who had already taken out infamous duellists like Rinko and who had overpowered a one armed Houken (oh look, it is that bloke you just mentioned) to just "a teenager" in order to shit on a character.

It not even factually correct bias. Shin was a full on 20+ year old man by the time of the Wei Fire Dragon Arc. Lel.

Now then, since you like feats so much, can you show me an actual feat of Ouki's (and not simply scaling Ouki to another character) that surpasses Gaimou's feat of sending a fully grown, physically fit man flying for over a dozen metres?

 

[Jailer]

The author himself had Renpa and Gaimou at 97 strength. Renpa beats Gaimou in warfare combat but in a 1v1 battle it goes either way. In strength Gaimou is a monster, despite how you look at him as a character.

 

[RayanOO]

Which Ouki never actually did. It looked like Ouki was about to beat Houken but ultimately their fight was inconclusive.

You can defend Gaimou, and maybe we all underestimate him a bit here but don't sully Ouki sama great name

He clearly beat Houken two times. And during the last fight he had him at almost death 2 times : one time the opposite army came, the other time was the arrow thing.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

You can defend Gaimou, and maybe we all underestimate him a bit here but don't sully Ouki sama great name

He clearly beat Houken two times. And during the last fight he had him at almost death 2 times : one time the opposite army came, the other time was the arrow thing.

Ouki is one of my favorite characters in all of manga. I have sullied nothing. Lol

The point is that Gaimou does have feats on the same caliber as Ouki and Renpa if not above them depending on the feats we are looking at. When Renpa was enraged over Rinko’s death, he still didn’t send Shin flying half as far as flexing Gaimou did.

 

[Hiragaro]

an accomplished 4000 Man Commander who has dedicated his entire life to duelling

Oh wow, lets act like the other generals never dedicated their entire life to duelling...only Shin did it...
They did it for far longer than Shin did, hence why they are GG's.

who had overpowered a one armed Houken (oh look, it is that bloke you just mentioned)

That bloke killed your all mighty Shin. Not sure why you are trying to downplay him.

to just "a teenager" in order to shit on a character.

Shit on a character? Where am i shitting on a character? You seem to be butthurt everytime Shin is involved lol
Nowhere did i shit on Gaimou, but simply say he is not as impressive as Manu.
But here you are making fun of Renpa, because he got overpowered by Mougou for his only 2 minutes of shine, which ended up in him losing his arm to Renpa anyways. It's not the first time a weaker character overpowers a stronger one for an impactfull moment.
Chou Ga Ryuu overpowered Shin, even tho it was obvious Shin was stronger than him and he won pretty comfortably.
Young Shin overpowered one handed Houken, obviously for Plot purposes to get Houken away, because it would be over if he stayed.

Now then, since you like feats so much, can you show me an actual feat of Ouki's (and not simply scaling Ouki to another character) that surpasses Gaimou's feat of sending a fully grown, physically fit man flying for over a dozen metres?

So a around 3 meter tall guy sends a normal human size man flying.
Ouki send Houken who is easily over 2,5 meter + his horse which is far bigger than a normal size horse flying over several meters. After this Houken said Ouki should not hold back, he should be capable of much more than this.
Proof enough? Or you gonna elevate Shin from back than when he fought Gaimou to Houken level when he fought Ouki?

 

[Owl Ki]

Oh wow, lets act like the other generals never dedicated their entire life to duelling...only Shin did it...
They did it for far longer than Shin did, hence why they are GG's.

This is straw manning. Lol. The original comparison of Shin dedicating his entire life to duelling was to Mougou, a man who sat at the back of his army during his entire career.

That bloke killed your all mighty Shin. Not sure why you are trying to downplay him.

It is not downplaying Houken. It is literally what happened.

Shit on a character? Where am i shitting on a character? You seem to be butthurt everytime Shin is involved lol
Nowhere did i shit on Gaimou, but simply say he is not as impressive as Manu.
But here you are making fun of Renpa, because he got overpowered by Mougou for his only 2 minutes of shine, which ended up in him losing his arm to Renpa anyways. It's not the first time a weaker character overpowers a stronger one for an impactfull moment.
Chou Ga Ryuu overpowered Shin, even tho it was obvious Shin was stronger than him and he won pretty comfortably.
Young Shin overpowered one handed Houken, obviously for Plot purposes to get Houken away, because it would be over if he stayed.

I am going to ask you a couple of simple questions.

Does Sanyou Mougou, the guy who was never hyped as a talented duellist and who had no notable kills to his name but consistently sent Renpa flying regardless, kill 4000 Man Commander Shin?

If no then why would 4000 Man Shin get crushed by Renpa as you have consistently maintained and which you use to downplay Gaimou?

So a around 3 meter tall guy sends a normal human size man flying.
Ouki send Houken who is easily over 2,5 meter + his horse which is far bigger than a normal size horse flying over several meters. After this Houken said Ouki should not hold back, he should be capable of much more than this.
Proof enough? Or you gonna elevate Shin from back than when he fought Gaimou to Houken level when he fought Ouki?

Holy fucking shit.

Do you have any idea how tall 3 metres is?

3 metres is equal to 9.8 feet.

That is taller than a female African elephant.

Spoiler

Good lord, stay away from calculating anything ever again.

Fucking elephant sized humans riding horses.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Chou Ga Ryuu overpowered Shin, even tho it was obvious Shin was stronger than him and he won pretty comfortably.

The fact that you acknowledge this makes it even weirder that you are downplaying Gaimou because Shin essentially gave him the same treatment that, as you admitted, Chou Garyuu gave Shin.

Shin was obviously stronger than Chou Garyuu, Gaimou was obviously stronger than Shin...You act like you expected Renpa or Ouki to smash Shin to a million pieces with their flacid penises or something lol. If Shin fought them, he could easily get some Chou Garyuu v Shin or Shin v Gaimou caliber licks in there bro.

 

[Hiragaro]

Shin was obviously stronger than Chou Garyuu, Gaimou was obviously stronger than Shin...You act like you expected Renpa or Ouki to smash Shin to a million pieces with their flacid penises or something lol. If Shin fought them, he could easily get some Chou Garyuu v Shin or Shin v Gaimou caliber licks in there bro.

The way Gaimou was showed fighting Shin - expect the one knock back - was really underwhelming compared to what hype he got and how he should have been portrait. Just look at the other Wei Dragons fight Earl Shi vs Ouhon - Earl Shi was never even huffing, not even once - while Gaimou was and he received some heavy blows aswell - yet Earl Shi not even once. This is how much he was dominating the fight and this is how Gaimou should have been portrait aswell. Earl Shi has even a lower strength stat than Gaimou with 96 to 97. While Ouhon has a higher stat than Shin. Ouhon and Earl Shi were closer to each other statswise than Shin and Gaimou, yet Earl Shi dominated way more than Gaimou did.

A stronger Shin was fighting a injured Houken after seing his friends get killed in front of him, by Houken - rage boosts. Yet Houken pummeled Shin so badly that he died from that damage shortly after he killed Houken - in a very unrealistic way, but let's not talk about that.
And Ouki was winning against Houken. Do the math.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Just look at the other Wei Dragons fight Earl Shi vs Ouhon - Earl Shi was never even huffing, not even once

A really weird comparison seeing as how Ouhon put his Spear through Earl Shi’s chest and Gaimou walked away from Shin with a smile on his face lol.

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love Earl Shi. He is my favorite Wei character period. But the fact that Ouhon killed this dude should show you that you are using a really weird metric by which you decide what characters are stronger than each other.

Yet Houken pummeled Shin so badly that he died from that damage shortly after he killed Houken - in a very unrealistic way, but let's not talk about that.
And Ouki was winning against Houken. Do the math.

Houken pummeled Shin, Shin also pummeled Houken. It was a two way fight where both characters got in nasty licks on the other.

Houken’s strength, speed, and technique were all superior to Ouki, and this was before Houken fought Duke Hyou where he was explicitly stated to be stronger than when he fought Ouki. So Shin thrashed and ultimately slayed a stronger version of Houken who was always stronger than Ouki.

I don’t think it’s me who needs to do the math here bro.

 

[Hiragaro]

A really weird comparison seeing as how Ouhon put his Spear through Earl Shi’s chest and Gaimou walked away from Shin with a smile on his face lol.

So you are completely gonna ignore that Earl Shi had no mean to live and besicaly just waited to die? Ouhon said Earl Shi is a Human being who has rejected the notion of ''living''. He said naturaly a human would protect his vitals, Earl Shi doesn't for some reason - we reader know the reason. And when he died he said he could finaly return - obvisouly to his sister in the after live. All he desired was to be with his sister, now that she was dead, he had no meaning to live anymore and the only way to be with her was to die. Even before the fight he was just thinking about her.
Come on guys, you are the ''geniuses'' here, who know everything better, yet you missed that?

Houken pummeled Shin, Shin also pummeled Houken. It was a two way fight where both characters got in nasty licks on the other.

Shin never pummeled Houken as Houken did to shin. Shin was losing his consciousness in the fight multiple times and was barely awake... Never happend to Houken.