Speculations Act 3 is not the last act of Wano

[PeperLevi]

@Hanzo hattori
I mentioned you and you didn't replied.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/act-3-is-not-the-last-act-of-wano.11520/post-1138703

 

[Rootbeer]

It took Luffy 3 rounds against Crocodile, so it stands to reason that it should at least take him 3 rounds against Kaido. In this case each loss would imply being totally defeated, out cold like when Kaido one shot Luffy in act 1. If Luffy is out for a couple hours or even a day, how can the raid be successful and can act 3 keep going on in the event of the raid failling?

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

2. Oda has repeatedly got rid of the Big Mom Pirates for a reason- they aren’t playing a part in this arc. Only Big Mom and Perospero are.

So what happens when Kaido and Big Mom are defeated. The beast Pirates are wiped out, and the alliance emerges from the battle pulled from the cusp of death with days if not weeks of recovery needed after taking on two Yonkos, and Big Mom's fresh crew shows up out of nowhere, 100 percent healthy, and thirsting for revenge?

CP-0 stated that even if the people on the roof (By some miracle) manage to defeat Kaido and Big Mom, their chances of winning the war is still slim to none because of Kaido's commanders. That isn't even accounting for Big Mom's crew who will be waiting on the ground when everything comes crashing down.

The way everything is setup, Big Mom's crew has to fall during all of this as well, somehow.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2021

I mean lets think realistically here. Roger and Whitebeard fought for 4 days straight. Akoji and Akainu fought for 10 days straight. It took Luffy 10 + hours to defeat Cracker, and Katakuri.

Yet Kaido and Big Mom are going to fall once Luffy recovers from his 10 minutes needed to regenerate his Haki, after suffering negligible damage, in the span of less than an hour of the fight starting?

Or do we go hours if not days of Luffy entering G4, losing Haki, resting for 10 minutes while Zoro, Kidd, Killer and Law hold off Kaido and Big Mom, and then Luffy jumps back into the fight, and rinse and repeat until they are defeated?

The fact that everything is going so smoothly for the alliance in this War is one of the biggest tells that things are not going to end well. Oda can not go from bringing out the entirety of the big guns of the Marines to take down one Yonko, to two Yonko's being defeated by a force a fraction as powerful as what the Marines had at Marineford, in such Mary sue style way. Right now everything has been built up feeling like the alliance can't lose, and if that's how it actually plays out, it will be a massive cringefest for the series.

"An Alliance between Big Mom and Kaido would be even more powerful than the Rocks Pirates" <----- Oda better not turn that shit into a joke......

 

[Garp the Fist]

So what happens when Kaido and Big Mom are defeated. The beast Pirates are wiped out, and the alliance emerges from the battle pulled from the cusp of death with days if not weeks of recovery needed after taking on two Yonkos, and Big Mom's fresh crew shows up out of nowhere, 100 percent healthy, and thirsting for revenge?

They grab their defeated mother, who is now permanently in child mode, and sail away in a panic as their empire is on the verge on ruin without her.

The arc is not getting extended to fit in fights with Smoothie and Daifuku. They’re completely irrelevant to the story. Big Mom’s only here to cut down how long Elbaf would have been, Perospero to finish off Carrot’s storyline.

CP-0 stated that even if the people on the roof (By some miracle) manage to defeat Kaido and Big Mom, their chances of winning the war is still slim to none because of Kaido's commanders. That isn't even accounting for Big Mom's crew who will be waiting on the ground when everything comes crashing down.

The way everything is setup, Big Mom's crew has to fall during all of this as well, somehow.

They aren’t been accounted because they’re not a factor. They’ve been totally written out of the story. There’s no setup for any BM Pirate except Perospero to be defeated.

I mean lets think realistically here. Roger and Whitebeard fought for 4 days straight. Akoji and Akainu fought for 10 days straight. It took Luffy 10 + hours to defeat Cracker, and Katakuri.

The multiple day fights are notably one vs ones. That’s not happening here, the fight will only take a couple of hours so that Kaido will fall at dawn, with multiple characters playing a part in defeating Kaido.

The fact that everything is going so smoothly for the alliance in this War is one of the biggest tells that things are not going to end well.

No it isn’t. Everything is going well because the Strawhats are actually going to win this fight. Same as everything went well at the end in Dressrosa, Alabasta, EL etc. There will be temporary setbacks, Kaido is almost certainly going to have all five on the roof lying on the ground looking defeated at some point, someone might die, but this is not a WCI situation, where it was clear the plan had to fail because there was no chance Big Mom would fall there. The Strawhats have already had their losses this arc- Luffy’s defeat, Yasu’s death, the Scabbards being battered. This fight ends with Kaido gone and the Beast Pirates defeated. Big Mom is just a side show, she’s very unlikely to fall in a traditional way because she’s got the shadow of O-Lin hanging over her.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

They grab their defeated mother, who is now permanently in child mode, and sail away in a panic as their empire is on the verge on ruin without her.

The arc is not getting extended to fit in fights with Smoothie and Daifuku. They’re completely irrelevant to the story. Big Mom’s only here to cut down how long Elbaf would have been, Perospero to finish off Carrot’s storyline.


They aren’t been accounted because they’re not a factor. They’ve been totally written out of the story. There’s no setup for any BM Pirate except Perospero to be defeated.


The multiple day fights are notably one vs ones. That’s not happening here, the fight will only take a couple of hours so that Kaido will fall at dawn, with multiple characters playing a part in defeating Kaido.


No it isn’t. Everything is going well because the Strawhats are actually going to win this fight. Same as everything went well at the end in Dressrosa, Alabasta, EL etc. There will be temporary setbacks, Kaido is almost certainly going to have all five on the roof lying on the ground looking defeated at some point, someone might die, but this is not a WCI situation, where it was clear the plan had to fail because there was no chance Big Mom would fall there. The Strawhats have already had their losses this arc- Luffy’s defeat, Yasu’s death, the Scabbards being battered. This fight ends with Kaido gone and the Beast Pirates defeated. Big Mom is just a side show, she’s very unlikely to fall in a traditional way because she’s got the shadow of O-Lin hanging over her.

there's no reason to debate further
See in you in 10 chapters

 

[ZoroSlaysDragonTuna]

The raid wont fail because the raid cant fail. Now all the questions you asked have one answer: oda will write it off his ass.
It just wouldn't make sense for the raid to fail for many reasons.

 

[Nestor]

So wano will never end then? Already 100 chapters

 

[Bogard]

The 5 acts can still happen without the alliance losing.

I could see act3 ending with Kaido and Big Mom shown in an overwhelming position infront of the seemingly defeated rooftop SNs

There is a reason why Oda decided to switch to the battles below the roof when Kaido turned hybrid with Luffy having exhausted his haki in his final G4 attacks. He used that opportunity to show the on-going battles while building up the remaining battles below the roof

I think the next time we'd see the rooftop battle, it'd signal the end of the act, with Kaido and Big Mom being in an overwhelming position to increase the threat level, maybe with Oda giving a clarification through Hawkins about who the 1% chance of survival was destinated to(most likely Luffy).

If not there, it'd be revealed in act4, with the act continuing where it ended, with the SNs being in a difficult position and everyone starting to lose hope, but ultimately the yonko losing to the SN alliance

Act5 could be used for celebrations, poneglyph retrieval, some CP0 reveals with post-Wano build-ups

 

[Sky]

They grab their defeated mother, who is now permanently in child mode, and sail away in a panic as their empire is on the verge on ruin without her.

The arc is not getting extended to fit in fights with Smoothie and Daifuku. They’re completely irrelevant to the story. Big Mom’s only here to cut down how long Elbaf would have been, Perospero to finish off Carrot’s storyline.


They aren’t been accounted because they’re not a factor. They’ve been totally written out of the story. There’s no setup for any BM Pirate except Perospero to be defeated.


The multiple day fights are notably one vs ones. That’s not happening here, the fight will only take a couple of hours so that Kaido will fall at dawn, with multiple characters playing a part in defeating Kaido.


No it isn’t. Everything is going well because the Strawhats are actually going to win this fight. Same as everything went well at the end in Dressrosa, Alabasta, EL etc. There will be temporary setbacks, Kaido is almost certainly going to have all five on the roof lying on the ground looking defeated at some point, someone might die, but this is not a WCI situation, where it was clear the plan had to fail because there was no chance Big Mom would fall there. The Strawhats have already had their losses this arc- Luffy’s defeat, Yasu’s death, the Scabbards being battered. This fight ends with Kaido gone and the Beast Pirates defeated. Big Mom is just a side show, she’s very unlikely to fall in a traditional way because she’s got the shadow of O-Lin hanging over her.

Oh boy are we reading the same thing ?

oda chooses to bring the big mom pirates that weren’t defeated/didn’t have their screen time specifically all the way to wano... a swordsman with 900+ Million over her head and a quirky freak that has grudge against germa and was the one responsible for murdering them with 700 million bounty... a girl that defeated nami and sent her to prison and a guy with guns that has weird book ability to store people aka vinsmokes and a guy that gather allies by luck calls ussop

oda hypes the rocks pirates only for big mom pirates to sit their asses doing nothing...

O Lin is a plot tool as much as hunger bangs big mom was

luffy said it a million times he will be the one to beat big mom and after kaido

Garp and his heavy connection with rocks and all hints from oda

2 bloody yonko are supposed to go down by 2 supernova captains and 2 of their underlyings

imagine an arc like WCI has 10 times sense of danger than wano lmao... the same wedding venue scene will be recycled...

If this still didn’t change your mind then I am sorry but I can’t help you

 

[Jet Pistol]

Some folks saying this act will have 60 chapters. If it is true, we still have 12 chapters till the end of act.



Marineford arc had 31 chapters. Wano main fight which will happen in act-4, will have 30 chapters. Nothing makes sense. If it follows 15-30-60-30-15 format, it will be another year till we leave Wano.

Next chapter will decide which way it will go.

 

[vikas]

5. Caribou has to talk to the Yonko about Poseidon. Its a fuckin Chekhov’s gun.

its only going to matter with Blackbeard or WG/CP0 anyway, not kaido BM.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

its only going to matter with Blackbeard or WG/CP0 anyway, not kaido BM.

Isn't this the same argument for Robin? the Yonko want One piece and there's a person on their island who can read poneglyphs but Robin is being saved for Blackbeard so Big mom and kaido will never Interact with her simply because the plot said so.

Well The plot made sure to bring caribou into and arc where people want ancient weapons but of course that doesn't matter, Caribou will just never interact with the people who have directly said they want what he knows... right... there is no reason why caribou is in this specific arc at all.

Post automatically merged: Mar 1, 2021

Yes. I agree with you, @ImmaIvanoM .
Wano Arc need be the longest possible,in order of it be a payoff worthy of all the journey in New World so far.
One of the points that need be build and finished in this arc,but which the fandom act like it isn't true,is Big Mom Pirates and their unfinished business with Straw Hats.
Linlin is a very depth character,and her crew is the most complex enemy team Oda introduced so far(Beasts Pirates still being build up.). After all that happened in Totto Land Arc,it wouldn't make sense to they never have a true confrontation against Straw Hats without be complete in the same place. One thing that need be better build up with Big Mom Pirates is Linlin's relationship with them,which currently isn't very good. All Linlin's crewmates are loyal to her,but Linlin personally not have bigger bonds with them beyond they being her crew power. She need develop a true and great captain-crew relationship with them,in order of they live a happy life together after their defeat.
Now,the point in this thread: Why certain people are thinking that Straw Hats should be defeated in Onigashima Raid? And how Big Mom Pirates are related to it?
The reason why Totto Land Arc pissed so much fans,me included,is how much the plot protected Straw Hats. They messed around in Big Mom Pirates's territory,escaped like a bunch of cowards and in the end,got the reputation of be a pirate crew on the same level as them. Same when Linlin and her crew proved their superiority over Straw Hats several times during that arc.
That arc ruined Oda's description of how dangerous enemies the Yonkos were,and the story point of how Straw Hats were supposed to grow as characters while facing that danger.
The story showed through Big Mom Pirates that there is a lesson Straw Hats need to learn about their own power level,and Big Mom Pirates need have participation in teach them this lesson.
So,when Linlin said she would go to Wano give Straw Hats a payback,these certain people,me included, concluded that Straw Hats need have to deal with both Big Mom Pirates and Beasts Pirates in Wano and face a total defeat. We all see this as mean of make they understand what they still lack to became a Top Tier pirate crew. And after this epiphany,they will strike back and have against two Yonko's crews at the same time a battle that will be a payoff worthy of all the journey in New World so far.
Mr Morj also strongly believe that Wano Arc is the final countdown for both Beasts Pirates and Big Mom Pirates,as he have saying it in his latest videos. But i don't know if he also think the same details about this matter that i wrote above,as he don't deepen in when talk about the point so much as i do.
That's why we are the "Straw Hats will be defeated in Onigashima Raid" Team. Right, guys?
@ImmaIvanoM @playa4321 @Jo_Ndule @Hanzo hattori @Sadistic Senpai

@PeperLevi
Yeah it seems weird that the strawhats learned about the alliance of the yonko literally on the way to the battle and yet they win

Thats ridiculous, the Enemies effectively doubled their military might yet the Strawhats just win without even being properly prepared for just Kaido.

They will have to lose or else the yonko are a pure joke

 

[Tyki_Mikk]

Agree with you, gonna explain it later more @PeperLevi

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

They grab their defeated mother, who is now permanently in child mode, and sail away in a panic as their empire is on the verge on ruin without her.

The arc is not getting extended to fit in fights with Smoothie and Daifuku. They’re completely irrelevant to the story. Big Mom’s only here to cut down how long Elbaf would have been, Perospero to finish off Carrot’s storyline.


They aren’t been accounted because they’re not a factor. They’ve been totally written out of the story. There’s no setup for any BM Pirate except Perospero to be defeated.

Then why bring those specific characters? Smoothie and Compote, who are Big Mom's strongest daughters, but got sidelined for most of WCI. Daifuku, who Oda set up a direct confrontation with Sanji with on WCI. Flampe, who Oda had bare witness to the majority of the Luffy vs Katakuri fight. Mont D'or, whose devil fruit allows him to store thousands of prisoners/potential allies for the Strawlliance.

The only way I can see them not being relevant to Wano and the final battle in some capacity, is if the Big Mom pirates are meant to follow the Straw Hats to Elbaf after this arc, which is possible. But just to pick up Big Mom's defeated body and turn tail and run from a bunch of people who will be heavily injured by that point? Highly doubtful.

The multiple day fights are notably one vs ones. That’s not happening here, the fight will only take a couple of hours so that Kaido will fall at dawn, with multiple characters playing a part in defeating Kaido.

This works for me only if Big Mom is taken out of the equation somehow for the remainder of the fight, and it just leaves Kaido vs the 5. But to expect those 5 to fight off both Kaido and Big Mom simultaneously for hours on end, which ultimately leads to both of their defeats? That would leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Big Mom and Kaido have both just been dicking around at the moment, and are finally starting to have fun and get a little serious. There should be no feasible way that those 5 can last hours against two serious Yonkos at the same time, and ultimately pull off a victory. This isn't just any regular tag team battle. It's 5 vs 2 of the most powerful characters in the verse.

No it isn’t. Everything is going well because the Strawhats are actually going to win this fight. Same as everything went well at the end in Dressrosa, Alabasta, EL etc. There will be temporary setbacks, Kaido is almost certainly going to have all five on the roof lying on the ground looking defeated at some point, someone might die, but this is not a WCI situation, where it was clear the plan had to fail because there was no chance Big Mom would fall there. The Strawhats have already had their losses this arc- Luffy’s defeat, Yasu’s death, the Scabbards being battered. This fight ends with Kaido gone and the Beast Pirates defeated. Big Mom is just a side show, she’s very unlikely to fall in a traditional way because she’s got the shadow of O-Lin hanging over her.

I wouldn't say everything was going well at the end of any of those arcs, as the tension for everyone including the citizens were already at an all time high by the time we reached this point in those arcs. Instead here we have a scene with Hyougoro, who explicitly states that it feels like they just can't lose this. The Strawlliance members aren't worried in the slightest. The Citizens are none the wiser to the dangers looming over the horizon. Nobody aside from those on Onigashima even know about this battle taking place, or who the main participants are. It just doesn't feel fully setup yet. At least not how Oda traditionally sets things up.

Sure, Onigashima can crash onto the Flower Capital, but the citizens don't even know that. If they see a floating Island in the sky, there is nothing indicating to them that it is going to land on them. That wouldn't even be made apparent until it is directly over them. And then what? Kaido just hovers the Island over them until he's defeated? Then what happens to the Island? Momonosuke keeps it afloat, and moves it? The same kid who could barely lift himself and Luffy out of the trash heap on Punk Hazard, can now hold up an Island, while still not even fully grasping the basic concept of being able to move in and out of Zoan form? I can suspend my disbelief, but this would be a whole other level of power jumping. Plus, it would just be a rehash of the Fishman Island ticking timebomb scenario.

Every other arc had it's own unique ticking timebomb scenario, and if Oda rehashes one he just used at the beginning of the Timeskip, in an arc with two Yonkos to boot, it would feel extremely underwhelming. The way I see it, is Onigashima should fall well before reaching the Flower Capital, causing the fights to spill over into Wano. Then Oda can properly set everything up, give us our Kaido backstory, and move the arc to it's conclusion.

 

[spawn]

It doesn't really make a difference if it's 3, 4, or 5 acts.

The way Wano has been laid out so far is the following:
Act I creates 1 main objective that it creates and ends. (Meeting Tama)
Act I sets up mid-term objectives for Act II (Zoro getting lost, Luffy going to Udon) and a few long-term objectives for Act III (Seeking for 3 strong samurai and the surprise attack on Onigashima).

Act II is mainly where the Act I mid-term objectives get completed and where more things for Act III are setup.
Namely, it sets up the following:
- The Yonko alliance, what will it result in?
- X-Drake's plan.
- CP0's involvement.
- Luffy defeating Kaido
- Yasu's speech and the taking of Kaido's head.
- Enma becoming a black blade

Just now, we've gotten to continuing the CP0 plotline.
Whether Oda fulfills everything in this act or creates another act to finish them is really up to him and doesn't make much difference. The remaining objectives remain the same.

 

[HA001]

Then why bring those specific characters? Smoothie and Compote, who are Big Mom's strongest daughters, but got sidelined for most of WCI. Daifuku, who Oda set up a direct confrontation with Sanji with on WCI. Flampe, who Oda had bare witness to the majority of the Luffy vs Katakuri fight. Mont D'or, whose devil fruit allows him to store thousands of prisoners/potential allies for the Strawlliance.

The only way I can see them not being relevant to Wano and the final battle in some capacity, is if the Big Mom pirates are meant to follow the Straw Hats to Elbaf after this arc, which is possible. But just to pick up Big Mom's defeated body and turn tail and run from a bunch of people who will be heavily injured by that point? Highly doubtful.



This works for me only if Big Mom is taken out of the equation somehow for the remainder of the fight, and it just leaves Kaido vs the 5. But to expect those 5 to fight off both Kaido and Big Mom simultaneously for hours on end, which ultimately leads to both of their defeats? That would leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Big Mom and Kaido have both just been dicking around at the moment, and are finally starting to have fun and get a little serious. There should be no feasible way that those 5 can last hours against two serious Yonkos at the same time, and ultimately pull off a victory. This isn't just any regular tag team battle. It's 5 vs 2 of the most powerful characters in the verse.



I wouldn't say everything was going well at the end of any of those arcs, as the tension for everyone including the citizens were already at an all time high by the time we reached this point in those arcs. Instead here we have a scene with Hyougoro, who explicitly states that it feels like they just can't lose this. The Strawlliance members aren't worried in the slightest. The Citizens are none the wiser to the dangers looming over the horizon. Nobody aside from those on Onigashima even know about this battle taking place, or who the main participants are. It just doesn't feel fully setup yet. At least not how Oda traditionally sets things up.

Sure, Onigashima can crash onto the Flower Capital, but the citizens don't even know that. If they see a floating Island in the sky, there is nothing indicating to them that it is going to land on them. That wouldn't even be made apparent until it is directly over them. And then what? Kaido just hovers the Island over them until he's defeated? Then what happens to the Island? Momonosuke keeps it afloat, and moves it? The same kid who could barely lift himself and Luffy out of the trash heap on Punk Hazard, can now hold up an Island, while still not even fully grasping the basic concept of being able to move in and out of Zoan form? I can suspend my disbelief, but this would be a whole other level of power jumping. Plus, it would just be a rehash of the Fishman Island ticking timebomb scenario.

Every other arc had it's own unique ticking timebomb scenario, and if Oda rehashes one he just used at the beginning of the Timeskip, in an arc with two Yonkos to boot, it would feel extremely underwhelming. The way I see it, is Onigashima should fall well before reaching the Flower Capital, causing the fights to spill over into Wano. Then Oda can properly set everything up, give us our Kaido backstory, and move the arc to it's conclusion.

Nah you only have to see that oda only let the 2 meme pirates who are opposed to kata leading the crew climb the waterfall. They will lose. The rest will leave.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

Nah you only have to see that oda only let the 2 meme pirates who are opposed to kata leading the crew climb the waterfall. They will lose. The rest will leave.

Marco, Jozu and Vista have all been highlighted in the series. Katakuri and Cracker have been highlighted in the series. Jack, Queen and King are getting their highlights now. Shanks and Blackbeards Commanders will get their highlights as well. Smoothie is the only Yonko commander in the entire series who never be highlighted? Pretty doubtful.....

 

[HA001]

Marco, Jozu and Vista have all been highlighted in the series. Katakuri and Cracker have been highlighted in the series. Jack, Queen and King are getting their highlights now. Shanks and Blackbeards Commanders will get their highlights as well. Smoothie is the only Yonko commander in the entire series who never be highlighted? Pretty doubtful.....

She's a woman. It's oda.

 

[Sky]

I can not wait for ZKK... killer and kid beating big mom and she loses her memory... big mom pirates watching the show without moving a finger... sanji sama beating king... carrot beat perospero ...

Trash writing at its best lmao

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

She's a woman. It's oda.

That's sound kinda sexist.