General & Others Proof Zoro>Luffy, and that hate against Zoro is at an all time high.
- Thread starter stairs-kun
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Doesn't mean anything. Sanji didn't get nerfed against Bon Clay because he got broken rib cages. Luffy didn't get nerfed against Doflamingo because of his time limits. Ace didn't get nerfed against Blackbeard because he broke his neck, etc.
Zoro and Pekoms are both fighters of each crews which is this thread is all about.
Zoro and Pekoms are both fighters of each crews which is this thread is all about.
First of all, in that Arlong Park panel you posted, Luffy said, "Of course I don't know anything about swords. I can't navigate, I can't cook, I can't even lie...". You do realize that he was talking about Zoro's swordsmanship here and didn't even mention any 'official roles given by Oda'? He didn't even mention the word roles at all, lol. You'll just change the entire dialogue Luffy said and make it about 'better fighter' just to suit your agenda here? He literally just mentioned swords there and that's all.
Also, even if you think that's talking about him as a fighter (which he ain't), when did needing help start to mean that the one asking can't be better at that aspect? How does that prove that Zoro is a better fighter, at all?
Again, where does Luffy explicitly state that he's worse than everyone else in the crew at their respective roles?
Also, even if you think that's talking about him as a fighter (which he ain't), when did needing help start to mean that the one asking can't be better at that aspect? How does that prove that Zoro is a better fighter, at all?
Again, where does Luffy explicitly state that he's worse than everyone else in the crew at their respective roles?
You guys should realize that Zoro is the combatant of the crew because he doesn't know how to do anything else, but "combatant" is quite literally the most generic role among crews in this series and pretty much a jack of all trades of a position. We have tons of examples in which obviously stronger characters in a crew, not even the captains, are above official combatants.
Absolutely irrelevant to the point. If you don't like the comparison for your inconsequential reasons take Hammond, the official and only combatant (if I recall correctly) yet weaker than captain Hody. Or Gotti, who as of now is the only combatant in the Firetank Pirates. Or Roux, who I guess is now stronger than both Shanks and Beckman.
Nothing is escaping me. It's just that you aren't making any logical sense.
Absolutely irrelevant to the point. If you don't like the comparison for your inconsequential reasons take Hammond, the official and only combatant (if I recall correctly) yet weaker than captain Hody. Or Gotti, who as of now is the only combatant in the Firetank Pirates. Or Roux, who I guess is now stronger than both Shanks and Beckman.
Nothing is escaping me. It's just that you aren't making any logical sense.
Luffy's time limits are self imposed. Bon Clay injured Sanji. Blackbeard apparently almost broke Ace's neck during their fight. That is not the same as Zoro trying to fight Kaido one on one after being heavily damaged by a two on one attack. You're boxing with phantom limbs.
Worse, you support that silly ass comparison. Is Sanji equal to streussen in combat or cooking? ThEy'Re BoTh T3h Ch3f
Worse, you support that silly ass comparison. Is Sanji equal to streussen in combat or cooking? ThEy'Re BoTh T3h Ch3f
I mean, the fact that Luffy addresses himself as the one who can beat Arlong is already a clue obvious enough to see that he's putting himself above a Zoro who is only more skilled than him in swordsmanship, hence why he refers to swords. When it comes to actual fighting as an overall concept, he gives himself the capability of beating the main bad threat in that very line of dialogue.
You don't believe that I'm comparing Pekoms and Zoro in terms of strength, right? Because this mock sounded like it.
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You don't believe that I'm comparing Pekoms and Zoro in terms of strength, right? Because this mock sounded like it.
I like how you switch things out :
• Luffy :
I need a musician and a doctor and Cook and Navigator if he can do that himself he wouldn't have to check them out .
• Luffy :
I can't live without help from a lot of ppl
Now since you said this ; if he is better than Usopp in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Nami in his role why did he let her join ? if he is better than Franky in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Choppa in his role why did he let him join ?
Let me body u with this panel :
In Usopp speech :
Any Straw hat is useful for Luffy and anyone can't be just useless for him if luffy is better than Robin he shouldn't have made her joining because he can do the job now answer us those questions while Arlong himself he is imcompetent who needs help from his crew members and guess each one role
• Luffy :
I need a musician and a doctor and Cook and Navigator if he can do that himself he wouldn't have to check them out .
• Luffy :
I can't live without help from a lot of ppl
Now since you said this ; if he is better than Usopp in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Nami in his role why did he let her join ? if he is better than Franky in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Choppa in his role why did he let him join ?
Let me body u with this panel :
In Usopp speech :
Any Straw hat is useful for Luffy and anyone can't be just useless for him if luffy is better than Robin he shouldn't have made her joining because he can do the job now answer us those questions while Arlong himself he is imcompetent who needs help from his crew members and guess each one role
You haven't found anything relevant yet, which is why you use random characters going by titles as strawmen. This is to compare Luffy and Zoro. Like no one gives a shit about Hammond, especially when another character satisfies the sake of comparison on topic
If you're just arguing about title it's a stupid ass argument. Especially since "combatant" isn't even Zoro's title on panel. People are just saying that his primary and arguably only significant role (but we know that's not true because of Water Seven and Thriller Bark) is that, so therefore he should be looked at as the main muscle. He actually protects Luffy in fights, so you'll have to think of some other comparison
If you're just arguing about title it's a stupid ass argument. Especially since "combatant" isn't even Zoro's title on panel. People are just saying that his primary and arguably only significant role (but we know that's not true because of Water Seven and Thriller Bark) is that, so therefore he should be looked at as the main muscle. He actually protects Luffy in fights, so you'll have to think of some other comparison
I like how you switch things out :
• Luffy :
I need a musician and a doctor and Cook and Navigator if he can do that himself he wouldn't have to check them out .
• Luffy :
I can't live without help from a lot of ppl
Now since you said this ; if he is better than Usopp in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Nami in his role why did he let her join ? if he is better than Franky in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Choppa in his role why did he let him join ?
Let me body u with this panel :
In Usopp speech :
Any Straw hat is useful for Luffy and anyone can't be just useless for him if luffy is better than Robin he shouldn't have made her joining because he can do the job now answer us those questions while Arlong himself he is imcompetent who needs help from his crew members and guess each one role
• Luffy :
I need a musician and a doctor and Cook and Navigator if he can do that himself he wouldn't have to check them out .
• Luffy :
I can't live without help from a lot of ppl
Now since you said this ; if he is better than Usopp in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Nami in his role why did he let her join ? if he is better than Franky in his role why did he let him join ? if he is better than Choppa in his role why did he let him join ?
Let me body u with this panel :
In Usopp speech :
Any Straw hat is useful for Luffy and anyone can't be just useless for him if luffy is better than Robin he shouldn't have made her joining because he can do the job now answer us those questions while Arlong himself he is imcompetent who needs help from his crew members and guess each one role
And we know for a fact that, unlike cooking, navigating, playing music, shooting... Luffy indeed CAN fight and, on top of that, he is the main character of a shonen manga.
This is an argument about official roles, so I'm using logic based on official roles to debunk that piece of argument that makes zero sense. Take any other combatant that is clearly weaker than other members of their crew, if you prefer.
I'm arguing about the argument of this thread, which seems to be based on the official roles of the crew as statements of superior capability on their area, so how is it stupid?
Tell me what I need to read. Is this the text seen on those Arlong Park panels?
"Of course I don't know anything about swords. I can't navigate, I can't cook, I can't even lie! I know I need friends to help me if I want to get ahead in life. But there's one thing I can do, I can beat you!".
Considering that Luffy wasn't focusing the context of his speech in Arlong Park but overall, and that Zoro hasn't taken down an enemy as strong as Luffy for more than two decades as he has been consistently put against secondary villains with sometimes even explicit statements on their inferior strength regarding their leaders, I couldn't care less about Zoro being nerfed or not; not like that's the argument either.
I'm arguing about the argument of this thread, which seems to be based on the official roles of the crew as statements of superior capability on their area, so how is it stupid?
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Tell me what I need to read. Is this the text seen on those Arlong Park panels?
"Of course I don't know anything about swords. I can't navigate, I can't cook, I can't even lie! I know I need friends to help me if I want to get ahead in life. But there's one thing I can do, I can beat you!".
Considering that Luffy wasn't focusing the context of his speech in Arlong Park but overall, and that Zoro hasn't taken down an enemy as strong as Luffy for more than two decades as he has been consistently put against secondary villains with sometimes even explicit statements on their inferior strength regarding their leaders, I couldn't care less about Zoro being nerfed or not; not like that's the argument either.
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Please, they literally said you'd find those powers amongst the strongest people in the World. You gone really argue semantics, when you know damn well what the implications from Oda is? Smh....
They're Top Tier abilities, and Luffy has two of them. (Possibly 3, cause I highly doubt there is anything beyond internal destruction for that application of CoA.) Deal with it.
Haki is the only thing that can place non devil fruit users on a Top Tier level, and Zoro has no forms of Top Tier Haki yet. I'm not downplaying Zoro, I'm pointing out the facts.
Zoro is going to get there, that's without question, but the problem is, is you guys want him there now, and will completely ignore any kind of power structure that Oda has established in order to place him there.
No OP Devil Fruit, no Top Tier Haki, but he's magically on the level of people who have one or the other, and some who have both. Please....
They're Top Tier abilities, and Luffy has two of them. (Possibly 3, cause I highly doubt there is anything beyond internal destruction for that application of CoA.) Deal with it.
Haki is the only thing that can place non devil fruit users on a Top Tier level, and Zoro has no forms of Top Tier Haki yet. I'm not downplaying Zoro, I'm pointing out the facts.
Zoro is going to get there, that's without question, but the problem is, is you guys want him there now, and will completely ignore any kind of power structure that Oda has established in order to place him there.
No OP Devil Fruit, no Top Tier Haki, but he's magically on the level of people who have one or the other, and some who have both. Please....
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Because you're taking Luffy's words in the context of his own crew and applying those words to other crews. We don't know anything about Shanks as a cook, we don't know how Blackbeard ranks as a cartographer, we don't know if anyone under Doflamingo is actually better with money than he is, etc. The manga literally doesn't touch those things . Luffy in Arlong Park doesn't speak for them.
Luffy references Zoro as a swordfighter, and we already know that's a different beast. The only top six pirates without a weapon is the guy with two devil fruits. All the calamities have blades, all the sweet commanders have blades. Shanks has three gunners. Any other top tier in general has a weapon if they're not getting by with a crazy DF.
Zoro actually spent half as much time training for this fight as Luffy, with no Yonko experience to set expectations, and still made Kaido bleed. To just say he's under Luffy because that's how it is elsewhere, square peg round hole
Luffy references Zoro as a swordfighter, and we already know that's a different beast. The only top six pirates without a weapon is the guy with two devil fruits. All the calamities have blades, all the sweet commanders have blades. Shanks has three gunners. Any other top tier in general has a weapon if they're not getting by with a crazy DF.
Zoro actually spent half as much time training for this fight as Luffy, with no Yonko experience to set expectations, and still made Kaido bleed. To just say he's under Luffy because that's how it is elsewhere, square peg round hole
Zoro's bones got broken against the Yonko. And he managed to scar Kaido. Cool.
Luffy beat Doffy while being injured, Sanji beat Bon Clay with broken ribs, etc.
Literally the same thing.
I'm not comparing their strength, not everything is power level related. Jeez, Pekoms and Zoro are the combatants, Sanji and Streusen are both chefs, etc.
That's their roles of the crew.
Luffy beat Doffy while being injured, Sanji beat Bon Clay with broken ribs, etc.
Literally the same thing.
I'm not comparing their strength, not everything is power level related. Jeez, Pekoms and Zoro are the combatants, Sanji and Streusen are both chefs, etc.
That's their roles of the crew.
Who? Morgan? Zoro Dealt with him
Buggy? His DF Counters Zoro so Luffy had to Fight Him
Kuro? Zoro had to carry Usopp & save Kaya so Luffy stayed with Kuro
Krieg? Mihawk Came
Arlong? Mihawk Injury
Baroque Works? Zoro Dealt with them all
Mr. 3? Zoro was Trapped
Wapol? Zoro wasn't even there
Crocodile? Logia & only Luffy could Fight Him
Bellamy? Luffy told Zoro to let him hit them
Enel? Only Luffy can Fight him
Foxy? Game Rules
Lucci? Both Luffy & Zoro faced him in Water 7 but in Enies Lobby Luffy wanted to take Revenge himself
T-Bone & CP Train? Luffy told Zoro to handle them
Moriah & Oars? It was Team Work
Kuma? Zoro faced him
Pacifista? Team Work again
Hody? Zoro Defeated him First
Hyouzou? Luffy faced him & said he was "Strong" then Zoro One-Shot him
PH Dragon? Zoro Dealt with it
Caesar? Monet saved him from Luffy & then Zoro Dealt with her (And he wasn't Strongest anyway, it was Vergo)
Fujitora? Zoro handled him so Luffy can pass through to fight the Weaker Doflamingo
Katakuri? Zoro wasn't there at all
Urashima? Zoro scared him & not Luffy
Hawkins? Zoro handled him
Apoo? Zoro handled him
Kaido? Zoro protected Luffy a Dozen time & was forced to retreat because of Both Kaido/BM
So you should learn by now that Zoro is indeed Strongest but Oda always make Scenarios so that it's Luffy who crushes the Villain's Dream, after all he is the Main Character
Buggy? His DF Counters Zoro so Luffy had to Fight Him
Kuro? Zoro had to carry Usopp & save Kaya so Luffy stayed with Kuro
Krieg? Mihawk Came
Arlong? Mihawk Injury
Baroque Works? Zoro Dealt with them all
Mr. 3? Zoro was Trapped
Wapol? Zoro wasn't even there
Crocodile? Logia & only Luffy could Fight Him
Bellamy? Luffy told Zoro to let him hit them
Enel? Only Luffy can Fight him
Foxy? Game Rules
Lucci? Both Luffy & Zoro faced him in Water 7 but in Enies Lobby Luffy wanted to take Revenge himself
T-Bone & CP Train? Luffy told Zoro to handle them
Moriah & Oars? It was Team Work
Kuma? Zoro faced him
Pacifista? Team Work again
Hody? Zoro Defeated him First
Hyouzou? Luffy faced him & said he was "Strong" then Zoro One-Shot him
PH Dragon? Zoro Dealt with it
Caesar? Monet saved him from Luffy & then Zoro Dealt with her (And he wasn't Strongest anyway, it was Vergo)
Fujitora? Zoro handled him so Luffy can pass through to fight the Weaker Doflamingo
Katakuri? Zoro wasn't there at all
Urashima? Zoro scared him & not Luffy
Hawkins? Zoro handled him
Apoo? Zoro handled him
Kaido? Zoro protected Luffy a Dozen time & was forced to retreat because of Both Kaido/BM
So you should learn by now that Zoro is indeed Strongest but Oda always make Scenarios so that it's Luffy who crushes the Villain's Dream, after all he is the Main Character
Conq haki + Ashura?
Ashura one shot luffy. Lol
So you are wrong. Chapter 997 or 8 luffy said to jinmbei his oberservation weaker than sanji and still its get to working. Luffy (observation =< Katakuri < Sanji) zoro got better armant he should have cuz mf gonna made 3 blackblades with haki
Ashura one shot luffy. Lol
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So you are wrong. Chapter 997 or 8 luffy said to jinmbei his oberservation weaker than sanji and still its get to working. Luffy (observation =< Katakuri < Sanji) zoro got better armant he should have cuz mf gonna made 3 blackblades with haki
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