Future Events Are You Excited for Yamato vs Kaido?
- Thread starter Cinera
- Start date
- Tags yamato yamato vs kaido
I don't really estimate how strong Yamato is like that? We have a floor for Yamato due to her impressive performance in Base, but we don't have a known ceiling.
I think Yamato's floor is "above all Tobi Roppo" (based on how Base Yamato treated Ulti).
So my belief is that Yamato is either above all Calamities or below them/on par with Jack. There really isn't any reason for her to be somewhere in between.
If Yamato's main fight in this arc is Jack, she's probably comparable to him/slightly weaker (she may evolve mid fight to win).
If Yamato's main fight is Kaido then she has no business being weaker than King. King level characters get low diffed by Kaido. I don't think Yamato will be getting low diffed by Kaido if he's her main fight:
So back to not knowing Yamato's ceiling. I think that because Yamato has no established ceiling, she would be as strong as Oda needs her to be in order to write the Yamato vs Kaido fight he wants to write.
I'm currently expecting Yamato vs Kaido to be a medium to high difficulty fight, so I expect Yamato to end up at the lower end of the Top Tier spectrum.
I expect King to be anywhere from Katakuri to Marco level. He might be stronger than Marco, but there's no real reason to assume he's a Top Tier.
So I expect Yamato to be able to beat King at High difficulty (if he's > Marco) and at medium difficulty (if he's <= Marco).
I don't argue for the above position in the arena because it's based entirely on my headcanon for how Yamato vs Kaido goes.
By current feats I have Base Yamato at Jack level+.
All of the above is based on two things:
If Yamato vs Kaido does not begin within the next 5 Wano chapters (excluding arc breaks), I'll be pretty concerned.
If it doesn't begin within the next 10, I'll reconsider as Yamato vs Kaido clearly isn't playing out according to my expectations.
If Yamato vs Kaido starts soon, and Yamato reveals a Mythical Zoan with some connection to Kaido's (e.g. "Byakko", but a form of "Western Dragon" would also work as well), it would reinforce my expectations.
I think Yamato's floor is "above all Tobi Roppo" (based on how Base Yamato treated Ulti).
So my belief is that Yamato is either above all Calamities or below them/on par with Jack. There really isn't any reason for her to be somewhere in between.
If Yamato's main fight in this arc is Jack, she's probably comparable to him/slightly weaker (she may evolve mid fight to win).
If Yamato's main fight is Kaido then she has no business being weaker than King. King level characters get low diffed by Kaido. I don't think Yamato will be getting low diffed by Kaido if he's her main fight:
- It's shitty storytelling. One Piece is a feel good Shounen. Even if Yamato is destined to lose, Oda isn't just going to write her getting destroyed the same way Post WCI Luffy was. Not giving the strength of the narrative behind their battle.
- Oda seems to be going for an epic fight.
- It's been 30+ chapters since Yamato was introduced and we've never seen her DF. Oda hinted that it's something incredibly powerful but refused to actually show it. He seems to be saving it for an epic reveal vs Kaido.
- Oda has interrupted Yamato's other fights against Kaido's executives, so there's a very good chance that Kaido would be the only major fight she gets this arc.
- Oda gave Yamato Kaido's exact fighting style and she can perform his moves identically. There's opportunity for very good fight choreography here.
- I'm expecting a "Father vs Son" confrontation. I think for storytelling purposes, the fight will be long (in terms of chapters).
So back to not knowing Yamato's ceiling. I think that because Yamato has no established ceiling, she would be as strong as Oda needs her to be in order to write the Yamato vs Kaido fight he wants to write.
I'm currently expecting Yamato vs Kaido to be a medium to high difficulty fight, so I expect Yamato to end up at the lower end of the Top Tier spectrum.
I expect King to be anywhere from Katakuri to Marco level. He might be stronger than Marco, but there's no real reason to assume he's a Top Tier.
So I expect Yamato to be able to beat King at High difficulty (if he's > Marco) and at medium difficulty (if he's <= Marco).
I don't argue for the above position in the arena because it's based entirely on my headcanon for how Yamato vs Kaido goes.
By current feats I have Base Yamato at Jack level+.
All of the above is based on two things:
- Yamato fights Kaido.
- Yamato doesn't reveal her Devil Fruit before she fights Kaido.
If Yamato vs Kaido does not begin within the next 5 Wano chapters (excluding arc breaks), I'll be pretty concerned.
If it doesn't begin within the next 10, I'll reconsider as Yamato vs Kaido clearly isn't playing out according to my expectations.
If Yamato vs Kaido starts soon, and Yamato reveals a Mythical Zoan with some connection to Kaido's (e.g. "Byakko", but a form of "Western Dragon" would also work as well), it would reinforce my expectations.
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Kaido isn't hiding Yamato's Devil Fruit to have her quickly beaten by her Father.
But also because of the nature of their conflict. Kaido is the one who trained her and he gave her the Devil Fruit she uses. He may have some interest in testing and measuring her when they battle.
Kaido is going to use his Hybrid form against her.
I mean her Devil Fruit is most likely a Mythical Zoan with some connection to his (e.g. White Tiger or Western Dragon). If it's indeed the White Tiger and Oda goes for Tiger vs Dragon, we'll see them fight each other in all their forms.
But also because of the nature of their conflict. Kaido is the one who trained her and he gave her the Devil Fruit she uses. He may have some interest in testing and measuring her when they battle.
Kaido is going to use his Hybrid form against her.
I mean her Devil Fruit is most likely a Mythical Zoan with some connection to his (e.g. White Tiger or Western Dragon). If it's indeed the White Tiger and Oda goes for Tiger vs Dragon, we'll see them fight each other in all their forms.
I'm expecting a Mythical Zoan of similar calibre to Kaido's. In particular, "Byakko" or a form of Western Dragon.
I think Yamato will be the 3rd strongest Strawhat at the end of Wano, but I don't think that is necessarily the case now.
I don't think Oda is reasoning:
"Yamato must be weaker than Luffy and Zoro, therefore her fight with Kaido goes like this".
I think Oda's reasoning is more:
"Hmm, I want to tell this kind of story through Yamato and Kaido's fight."
How strong she is would be determined from her fight with Kaido and not the other way around.
We can say with confidence that she wouldn't be the one to finally defeat Kaido, so she isn't on his level. But if Oda wanted to write a medium or high difficulty fight for Kaido vs Yamato, fandom expectations of Yamato's "power level" wouldn't stop him.
I think Yamato will be the 3rd strongest Strawhat at the end of Wano, but I don't think that is necessarily the case now.
I don't think Oda is reasoning:
"Yamato must be weaker than Luffy and Zoro, therefore her fight with Kaido goes like this".
I think Oda's reasoning is more:
"Hmm, I want to tell this kind of story through Yamato and Kaido's fight."
How strong she is would be determined from her fight with Kaido and not the other way around.
We can say with confidence that she wouldn't be the one to finally defeat Kaido, so she isn't on his level. But if Oda wanted to write a medium or high difficulty fight for Kaido vs Yamato, fandom expectations of Yamato's "power level" wouldn't stop him.
I never said anything about Oda thinking of Yamato in terms of power level though.
As you understand, Yamato is not defeating Kaido. I think understanding Kaido is a pretty huge advantage so Yamato can be written to look good. But looking good in a way that doesn't undermine Luffy's contribution to the goal the story has established to be the impossible. And also good in a way that doesn't undermine the beheading. I don't think there is a whole lot of the pie left to be claimed.
As you understand, Yamato is not defeating Kaido. I think understanding Kaido is a pretty huge advantage so Yamato can be written to look good. But looking good in a way that doesn't undermine Luffy's contribution to the goal the story has established to be the impossible. And also good in a way that doesn't undermine the beheading. I don't think there is a whole lot of the pie left to be claimed.
It's fitting that Yamato confronts her father and settles things with him soon. Breaking ties with him before she joins Luffy's crew if that's Oda's intention. Even if she doesn't give Kaido a high difficulty fight, 1v1, she's still his daughter so I don't think it'll just be him going crazy on her from the start. We'll see, Yamato has a lot to offer, maybe she'll give Kaido a good fight or maybe she'll just be used to stall Kaido and for us to get insight on her and Kaido's pasts.
If Luffy was being written to be solely responsible for defeating Kaido, then ZKK wouldn't happen.
So if you think ZKK is happening, then Oda doesn't intend for Luffy to be solely responsible for defeating Kaido.
Not really. Kaido is a Mythical Zoan with amazing recovery; this is a regenerating pie.
So if you think ZKK is happening, then Oda doesn't intend for Luffy to be solely responsible for defeating Kaido.
Not really. Kaido is a Mythical Zoan with amazing recovery; this is a regenerating pie.
I'm not sure how you read words I'm not saying. If I say Luffy's contribution toward the impossible, there is no "solely responsible" implied
And also, if you point to Kaido's recovery the arguing for damage caused before his final match is kinda moot. Yamato looking great only for him to have an amount of stamina left to prove a credible accomplishment for one or both of the other two means that it wasn't so great after all. See all the people who were complaining about Kaido getting lit up by the Scabbards. Their showings are irrelevant by this point in the story even if Oda didn't actually fail at making them look good in the moment.
And also, if you point to Kaido's recovery the arguing for damage caused before his final match is kinda moot. Yamato looking great only for him to have an amount of stamina left to prove a credible accomplishment for one or both of the other two means that it wasn't so great after all. See all the people who were complaining about Kaido getting lit up by the Scabbards. Their showings are irrelevant by this point in the story even if Oda didn't actually fail at making them look good in the moment.
Not looking forward to it as a fight (except Yamato's devil fruit) but more so as a confrontation between two characters that I care a lot about and that have a deep connection. That's pretty rare, and most big fights that happen are for the sake of someone else. With Yamato this might be partly so as well, but she has a lot more personal reasons.
Although the fact that Yamato thinks of herself as Oden could mean that Kaido could offer a deal that Yamato will accept, just like Oden had done before. That would postpone an actual fight even more - which doesn't mean that we couldn't get at least a small clash soon.
Although the fact that Yamato thinks of herself as Oden could mean that Kaido could offer a deal that Yamato will accept, just like Oden had done before. That would postpone an actual fight even more - which doesn't mean that we couldn't get at least a small clash soon.
