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[Red Admiral]

OK I finished Western Zhao Invasion Arc

it was really good and enjoyable ... but I think people overhyped it for me too much ...

Coalition Invasion Arc still stand as pinnacle of Kingdom for me ...


p.s
Western Zhao was too long and too empty compare to other arcs tbh ...
and to me made Kingdom a bit weaker plot wise ...
I don't know if I'm the only one who think like this

still a very good arc

 

[Xlaw]

OK I finished Western Zhao Invasion Arc

it was really good and enjoyable ... but I think people overhyped it for me too much ...

Coalition Invasion Arc still stand as pinnacle of Kingdom for me ...


p.s
Western Zhao was too long and too empty compare to other arcs tbh ...
and to me made Kingdom a bit weaker plot wise ...
I don't know if I'm the only one who think like this

still a very good arc

You are not alone.
None arc will top coalation arc. Possibly future Chu arc could surpass it.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

OK I finished Western Zhao Invasion Arc

it was really good and enjoyable ... but I think people overhyped it for me too much ...

Coalition Invasion Arc still stand as pinnacle of Kingdom for me ...


p.s
Western Zhao was too long and too empty compare to other arcs tbh ...
and to me made Kingdom a bit weaker plot wise ...
I don't know if I'm the only one who think like this

still a very good arc

Western Zhao empty? Bruh. This is my favorite Arc in Kingdom so you know I must defend.

This was the arc where Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten all elevated their talents even among extremely powerful Generals. Where each of them reached Great General levels of ability in their own respects.

This was the arc where Ousen shocked everyone including Riboku with his delicious-ass plan.

How did the arc feel “empty?” Lol

 

[Red Admiral]

Western Zhao empty? Bruh. This is my favorite Arc in Kingdom so you know I must defend.

This was the arc where Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten all elevated their talents even among extremely powerful Generals. Where each of them reached Great General levels of ability in their own respects.
This was the arc where Ousen shocked everyone including Riboku with his delicious-ass plan.
How did the arc feel “empty?” Lol

I'm talking about empty compare to the amount of chapters ...

Western Zhao was 147 chapters
while
State of Ai Arc was 47 chapter
Coalition Arc was 99 chapters

so Western Zhao was longer than State of Ai and Coalition arcs combine.
you really want to tell me Western Zhao had equal amount of story and events?

that's what I means by "empty" ...
pacing in this arc is really weak ....

I remember ... I stayed awake and read through Coalition arc until 6 AM ... and I couldn't even dream about putting away the manga
but it took me more than a week to finish Western Zhao


again ... I DO like it and I can even say it's 2nd best so far ...
but I couldn't help but feel story cared too much about pointless things, too much build up and beating around the bushes


I think the god tier pacing I felt during 80% of manga got damaged by Western Zhao and for that ... I can't say it's perfect

p.s
reading Western Zhao ongoing should've been a very hard thing to do
btw
I don't give a fuck about how Shin Vs houken ended as 1 Vs 1 fight don't mean much in a realist human fights
but story legit added fantasy element to a historical story ... that was wired

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

you really want to tell me Western Zhao had equal amount of story and events?

Yes. And the events that did happen at Western Zhao were more meaningful to the main cast than what happened during the Coalition Arc.

The Coalition Arc was mainly focused on Qin generals flexing on weaker opponents or similar opponents.

Western Zhao was full of our main characters surpassing their limits and entering the realm of Great Generals, being directly compared to Great Generals and the Qin 6 multiple times.

The stakes in Western Zhao were just as great as the Coalition Arc too. We were venturing deeper into Zhao territory than we had ever gone before, and if we failed, bye bye unification. If the Qin failed, their entire army would’ve been destroyed in Zhao.

I thought just the stakes of Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten surpassing their own limits were much more hype than anything we got during Coalition. I also rank Sei’s Coronation above Coalition.

 

[Red Admiral]

Yes. And the events that did happen at Western Zhao were more meaningful to the main cast than what happened during the Coalition Arc.

The Coalition Arc was mainly focused on Qin generals flexing on weaker opponents or similar opponents.

Western Zhao was full of our main characters surpassing their limits and entering the realm of Great Generals, being directly compared to Great Generals and the Qin 6 multiple times.

The stakes in Western Zhao were just as great as the Coalition Arc too. We were venturing deeper into Zhao territory than we had ever gone before, and if we failed, bye bye unification. If the Qin failed, their entire army would’ve been destroyed in Zhao.

I thought just the stakes of Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten surpassing their own limits were much more hype than anything we got during Coalition. I also rank Sei’s Coronation above Coalition.

did main character got better focused tho?
I think the 2nd half of Coalition Arc was much better in this term ... we got our 2 main character , a King and a future general fighting an impossible fight and that hit me much harder than the Young Trio simply kill much stronger people

and the ending was actually GREAT and calculated ...
while Western Zhao ending was too random ... it didn't feel like a master plan to me AT ALL ...
cause it was done with almost zero foreshadowing
and it was an unfair ending ... cause they won that by luck ... if Riboku was there Ousen would lost the fight
while in Coalition Arc they actually out smarted Riboku and defeated him fairly ... so a much more rewarding ending


and we had more iconic moment then there as well
I mean as you can see I clearly love Ousen ...
but I think Mobu shined better in Coalition Arc than Ousen in Western Zhao ... he had a climatic moment
Mobu had a defining great moment so he can become the strongest man in china
while Ousen never got a defining and iconic moment like him or even Ouki
sure Ousen had many epic moment but none of them were a huge climatic moment for him
he only proved he is almost as good as Riboku ...
Shin had a climatic and iconic moment but he didn't


Shin, Ouhon, and Mouten did better than ever ... sure I agree

but it took them far too long ... if Western Zhao was around 100 chapters ... the plot could've been far better
I mean ... I think I can remember this arc better than you :)
if you go back and read it you can see MANY chapters have a VERY slow pacing and almost nothing happens in them

I don't know what would've been my reaction if I was an weekly reader tbh

 

[Owl Ki]

To be fair, the Western Zhao Invasion Arc was basically two arcs worth of content shoved into one between the Siege of Ryouyou and the Battle of Shukai Plains. The length was justified for the amount of awesome shenanigans that happened. Lol.

 

[Red Admiral]

To be fair, the Western Zhao Invasion Arc was basically two arcs worth of content shoved into one between the Siege of Ryouyou and the Battle of Shukai Plains. The length was justified for the amount of awesome shenanigans that happened. Lol.

it was a great arc ... Hara even hyped Zhao far more than he should :)
I won't blame him cause this is history after all
he couldn't give us an ending and pacing like Coalition Arc

I don't want to bitch about something I really enjoyed ... I'm only saying why it's not the best arc in my opinion

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

did main character got better focused tho?
I think the 2nd half of Coalition Arc was much better in this term ... we got our 2 main character , a King and a future general fighting an impossible fight and that hit me much harder than the Young Trio simply kill much stronger people

The Hi Shin Unit (and Gyoku Hou) awakening was more emotional and hype than anything we saw in Coalition. And that includes Moubu. Gyou’Un and Chou Garyuu were also much better antagonists than any that we saw in Coalition. Gyou’Un in particular was a Dark Ouki parallel, and it was the first time we actually fought opponents who also wanted to unify China.

Shin slaying Houken was also, no question, the fight with more buildup in Kingdom than any other bar Sei’s “fight” with Ryofui.

but I think Mobu shined better in Coalition Arc than Ousen in Western Zhao

I don’t see how lol.

Shouheikun literally spent an entire year straight coming up with the Western Zhao strat, and Ousen came up with a new strat in less than 12 hours and defeated Riboku in the process.

Plus with Riboku and Ousen, we got more hints about Ousen’s overall goal: to become the King of a United China (this is what I believe anyway). Ousen’s intellectual battle with Riboku was way more incredible to me than Moubu’s flex-fest. We actually got to see the two greatest minds in Kingdom go blow for blow, and that was way more incredible to me than Kanmei and Moubu swinging maces at each other.

 

[Red Admiral]

We actually got to see the two greatest minds in Kingdom go blow for blow, and that was way more incredible to me than Kanmei and Moubu swinging maces at each other.

yes than was a great ... but Ousen didn't DO anything there ...

Mobu killing strongest man and become strongest was an action ... and actions matter (to me) more than epic talks

let's say Shanks stopping the war > Shanks talking to Whitebeard

seeing an epic action is always more climactic to me than 2 people merely talk ... no matter how important and epic that is
that's why I loved Shin moment ... he actually did something there
Ousen COULD have get something like that ... and I felt he did many good and great thing but not single climactic action

but don't worry ... we have all the time in the world ... we can have a debate thread about it if you like ... but later not now :)

p.s
can you post a random thing on please?
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/chinas-top-10-all-time-generals.5262/page-2

I want to post my top 10 so far

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

yes than was a great ... but Ousen didn't DO anything there ...

Ousen was the mastermind of Qin bro. Everything that happened on that battlefield happened according to his direct calculations and decision-making.

He stepped onto a battlefield with virtually a 0% chance from the start, threw the entire grand strategy out of the window while creating his own, and captured a city that he himself described as “perfect” and “impervious to attack” in spite of all odds. There were several micro-decisions he made that I won’t even mention, including personally riding out to Gyou to analyze it, personally talking to the “locusts” he sent to Gyou, and more..just because he didn’t fight doesn’t mean this guy was doing stuff. Like I said, he was Qin’s mastermind and chief mover this arc.

Mobu killing strongest man and become strongest was an action ... and actions matter (to me) more than epic talks

It’s not about dialogue, it’s about Ousen’s decision making and problem solving in action. The problems Ousen solved at Gyou were nearly insurmountable. Shouheikun himself believed that Moubu was capable of defeating Kanmei, but Shouheikun didn’t believe that succeeding in Western Zhao would be a near impossible task for Qin even with 3 GG level commanders leading armies into Zhao. Ousen not only succeeded, but he did so in a nearly impossible manner that was also believable.

let's say Shanks stopping the war > Shanks talking to Whitebeard

What did Shanks even do at Marineford? He just showed up and the war immediately ended. Nowhere near as impressive as Ousen’s masterminding of Western Zhao and Gyou.

can you post a random thing on please?
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/chinas-top-10-all-time-generals.5262/page-2

I want to post my top 10 so far

Inbound

 

[Red Admiral]

Ousen was the mastermind of Qin bro. Everything that happened on that battlefield happened according to his direct calculations and decision-making.

He stepped onto a battlefield with virtually a 0% chance from the start, threw the entire grand strategy out of the window while creating his own, and captured a city that he himself described as “perfect” and “impervious to attack” in spite of all odds. There were several micro-decisions he made that I won’t even mention, including personally riding out to Gyou to analyze it, personally talking to the “locusts” he sent to Gyou, and more..just because he didn’t fight doesn’t mean this guy was doing stuff. Like I said, he was Qin’s mastermind and chief mover this arc.

don't just read one part of my post :)
I just finished the arc ... I know Ousen did any things ... by DO I mean

he didn't had an ICONIC and CLIMACTIC moment

like what shin did
like what Mobu did
like what Ei Sei did at the end of Coalition Arc

Ousen was the leader who controlled every single bit of war but in my opinion he didn't got one single moment to shine with full power (his brain power) ... maybe I'm asking too much of him? idk ...

I expected a big master plan from him and Riboku but none of them gave me this ...
none of gave me a twist like master plan that blow me away

maybe if arc would end by Riboku getting captured this could've happened
but it wasn't up to Hara

It’s not about dialogue, it’s about Ousen’s decision making and problem solving in action. The problems Ousen solved at Gyou were nearly insurmountable. Shouheikun himself believed that Moubu was capable of defeating Kanmei, but Shouheikun didn’t believe that succeeding in Western Zhao would be a near impossible task for Qin even with 3 GG level commanders leading armies into Zhao. Ousen not only succeeded, but he did so in a nearly impossible manner that was also believable.

that might be another problem with this arc ... again with history not Hara ...

but in story he is telling us

=> if King of Zhao wasn't a fucking bitch and send his full army
=> if Riboku didn't got captured in last moment

Qin could never won this war
for me this makes the arc VERY anticlimactic ...

but in Coalition Arc Qin won fairly

 

[MarineHQ]

Unpopular Opinion but i think Riboku was working Ousen's ass for the majority of the battle on the Shukai plains.

 

[Red Admiral]

Unpopular Opinion but i think Riboku was working Ousen's ass for the majority of the battle on the Shukai plains.

another Unpopular Opinion
both Riboku and hou ken were disappointing to me ... compare to their "100" hype at least
in fact ... hou ken was TOO disappointing

 

[Owl Ki]

another Unpopular Opinion
both Riboku and hou ken were disappointing to me ... compare to their "100" hype at least

Oh yeah, the stat system. You must have seen Shouheikan vs Wategi by now, right?

 

[MarineHQ]

another Unpopular Opinion
both Riboku and hou ken were disappointing to me ... compare to their "100" hype at least
in fact ... hou ken was TOO disappointing

I heavily disliked so many supernatural moments during that arc, especially near unconscious Shin defending full power Houken blows from the ground or Kyoukai's shitty dance.

Riboku though, no way i am disappointed in him. Riboku was everywhere. Riboku foresaw Ousen's entire plan for Mouten/Kisui and slayed Makou on the first day, then found the weakness of Akou's defence which stomped Bananji, Gyou'un and garyuu.

Ousen's plan was more off hoping that the New gen awakens....

 

[Red Admiral]

Oh yeah, the stat system. You must have seen Shouheikan vs Wategi by now, right?

Shouheikan don't even make sense to me
story implied he was as powerful or above him few years ago but 90
and yet his leadership was 96 MORE THAN Ousen ... without really being a general

either don't give us a number or make it means something

 

[Owl Ki]

Shouheikan don't even make sense to me
story implied he was as powerful or above him few years ago but 90
and yet his leadership was 96 MORE THAN Ousen ... without really being a general

either don't give us a number or make it means something

Yeah, nobody I know that reads Kingdom takes the stat system seriously. It is the one aspect of Kingdom that makes zero sense.

Kingdom without the stat system makes perfect sense. Kingdom with the stat system is nonsensical. Lol.

Shouheikan is the most egregious example of stat system abuse.

 

[Arara]

Vol. 62 Cover

Spoiler

 

[RayanOO]

Sanyou and Coalition arc were the best arcs !

Riboku did good in Shukai plaines his tactics were top notch

Just don’t like how Houken came each time to seal the deal for his battles. And that Houken fight