Questions & Mysteries The Kurozumi Hag

#1
Chapter 965 has introduced the character who is basically the mastermind behind the entire existence of this arc and in true Oda fashion, she is dead and buried already. I'm gonna call her the Kurozumi hag for lack of a better term




Mysteries that have arisen:
1. How can she see the future to prophecise that Orochi will be Shogun? This is of course similar to Toki who we assume has time fruit and Madam Shirley who has her crystal ball Voodoo but how does this Kurozumi hag know this?

2. What is her relationship with the Kurozumi family? I call her Kurozumi hag because I assume she has a blood tie to them since she cried at the death of Orochi's grandfather but the actual relationship hasn't been confirmed

3. Who is this old shamisen player dude seated there listening to all this providing an ominous soundtrack and is he still alive?

4. Why the hell doesn't she just tell Orochi who she is? I mean Orochi is desperate enough to listen to whoever but usually it's easier to form a bond of trust with a person when you tell the person who you are.

5. When did she leave Wano and what was she doing outside of Wano?

6. How does she have access to these "big players" in the outside world in order to know what they would want from Wano to begin with?

7. What is that fruit she gives to Orochi? It's not a devil fruit since it doesn't have the swirl patterns.

8. If Orochi basically got all his power by following this hag's plan, where did Orochi get his Mythical Zoan devil fruit? Like I said before, the fruit she gives Orochi in this chapter is NOT a devil fruit.

9. Why does she have the face of an younger Golden lion shiki? I say younger because this is all happening around the time of the Edd war and Shiki does not look like that at the time.


10. How did she die and where for her fruit to end up in paradise with Bon Clay?

11. How are all or most of the above questions going to answered in the present time in the story since she's dead and Orochi himself apparently didn't know much about her?
 
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#3
Another thing to note-
She has the same ideology as Doflamingo, could just be a coincidence but what if this ideology is inspired by the same source?
 
M

MD Zolo

#4
Another thing to note-
She has the same ideology as Doflamingo, could just be a coincidence but what if this ideology is inspired by the same source?
She has no ideology (well...everybody does, but for her case, so far it is not mentionable). But Doflamingo's ideologies have been explored in great details, so the comparison feels off to me.
 

Plex

Powerscaling Snob
#6
In order to transform into a specific person with the mane fruit the user must first touch that specific person. Considering he/she can transform into shiki means that this person was probably in Xebec's crew and got the opportunity to touch Shiki. After Xebec defeat this person decided to follow Kaido, hence the talk of "weapons manufacturing" and "big players will back you".

The beast pirates were already planning this far ahead on how to tackle Wano.
 
#7
6. How does she have access to these "big players" in the outside world in order to know what they would want from Wano to begin with?
Now that I've read chapter 965 again, could these "big players" mean "Kaido"?

She says "manufacture weapons", and about Wano's craftsmanship being "exceptional", it kind of links to present day Wano, with Orochi exporting Wano's weaponry and having Kaido on his side, allowing him to rule Wano and oppose any resistance, as long as Kaido's backing him up. :unsure:
 
#8
She has no ideology (well...everybody does, but for her case, so far it is not mentionable). But Doflamingo's ideologies have been explored in great details, so the comparison feels off to me.
I was pointing specifically to Doflamingo's quote on his views on the definition of justice and power in Marineford and exactly the same was echoed by the old hag. Sure she could be saying that to beguile Orochi, but the idea was eerily similar and that too coming from an anonymous identity as of now who has been outside of Wano.
 
M

MD Zolo

#9
I was pointing specifically to Doflamingo's quote on his views on the definition of justice and power in Marineford and exactly the same was echoed by the old hag. Sure she could be saying that to beguile Orochi, but the idea was eerily similar and that too coming from an anonymous identity as of now who has been outside of Wano.
I understand.

But the hag (I really dislike that) was in Wano at least 41 years ago if not longer. While Doflamingo is 42 I think. That doesn't exclude same source influencing both, but does diminish the probability of it.
 
#10
Chapter 965 has introduced the character who is basically the mastermind behind the entire existence of this arc and in true Oda fashion, she is dead and buried already. I'm gonna call her the Kurozumi hag for lack of a better term






Mysteries that have arisen:
1. How can she see the future to prophecise that Orochi will be Shogun? This is of course similar to Toki who we assume has time fruit and Madam Shirley who has her crystal ball Voodoo but how does this Kurozumi hag know this?

2. What is her relationship with the Kurozumi family? I call her Kurozumi hag because I assume she has a blood tie to them since she cried at the death of Orochi's grandfather but the actual relationship hasn't been confirmed

3. Who is this old shamisen player dude seated there listening to all this providing an ominous soundtrack and is he still alive?

4. Why the hell doesn't she just tell Orochi who she is? I mean Orochi is desperate enough to listen to whoever but usually it's easier to form a bond of trust with a person when you tell the person who you are.

5. When did she leave Wano and what was she doing outside of Wano?

6. How does she have access to these "big players" in the outside world in order to know what they would want from Wano to begin with?

7. What is that fruit she gives to Orochi? It's not a devil fruit since it doesn't have the swirl patterns.

8. If Orochi basically got all his power by following this hag's plan, where did Orochi get his Mythical Zoan devil fruit? Like I said before, the fruit she gives Orochi in this chapter is NOT a devil fruit.

9. Why does she have the face of an younger Golden lion shiki? I say younger because this is all happening around the time of the Edd war and Shiki does not look like that at the time.


10. How did she die and where for her fruit to end up in paradise with Bon Clay?

11. How are all or most of the above questions going to answered in the present time in the story since she's dead and Orochi himself apparently didn't know much about her?
1 Imo she isn't actually seeing the future but just trying to drill her will the best she can so her greatest desire, pretty much her drive in life at that point, and the one of their clan, in Orochi who is the heir of the former clan head so the one, and only one, who can fulfill it and take revenge for their disbanded clan.

2 Just fan theories here, she probably is not gonna appear again nor be talked about after this chapter just like Gyukimaru. Anyway most likely she is Orochi grandmother and the wife of the last kurozumi clan leader. She is way too desperate to have this revenge, had to flee the country (so she was heavily involved with the clan, most likely an important head figure too), spent years to plan this revenge, she is old, Orochi himself started saying "so you are my... or Kozumi's clan" this could be her mother or Kurozumi clan head (at this point), hates the kozuki clan and his members with a passion, evil as Orochi.. Most likely his grandma.

3 That imo is just a japanese thing, like when the act startes there is the lady playing her instrument nowbthere is this guy. I don't know but I guess that in japanese plays you have people supporting the scenes with music to define them better, it can be compared to the anarrator: a figure who somewhat helps to tell the story but doesn't take part in it. It is not even an actual character imo. Don't know if I have explained this well anyway.

4 Oda, like always, wants to keep the mystery like with the Shimotsuki dude, we have heavy hints implying he is Zoro's father but Oda will just never confirm it fully. Helps to keep high the curiosity of the reader.

5 She left when the trachery was exposed and she spent all these years planning her revenge iver the Kozuki.

6 Imo it is not that she has access to them but she knows that the powers ofbthe world are always hungry for stringer weapons and she know Wano can provide them, anyway since she managed to take mr 2 devil fruit (did she have it even before leaving Wano? It could also be how she managed to leave the country if other people didn't know about it but if that was the case she could even tried and suceed in killing the shogun directly).

7 it has not the usual patterns of a devil fruit... But imo it has to be the orochi devil fruit.. What could it be otherwise? Even the leafs on the top of it resemble somewhat heads (too bad the exact number is not visible, yet it should be 9, like the heads of the orochi df). Anyway like forbthe other points this is just a guess, like you said it lacks the swirl patterns a df should have.

8 If that is not the orochi df then it could be a another treasure of his clan, or maybe a treasure of Wano. Anyway most likely that fruit has to come from Wano (japanese mythology and all).

9 Good coo, I was wondering who that guy could be, would have never guessed a younger Shiki XD from this we can say that she met him and maybe he is the one who helped her outside of Wano (afterall Shiki, at least going from his dresses, should have some tie with this country). She is his grandmother (imo) so way older and her time outside of Wabo started decades before that moment, maybe Shiki helped her years and years before and now that was the last face she has memory of Shiki. Could also be that the hag rentered Wano itself years ago after she got what she needed fromn the outside and now she is planning her revenge from the inside of the country.. Who knows.

10 It will never be explained imo. Yet most likely theory for me is that she died, the fruit was reborn on a tree, it fell from the tree in a river, then go down all the way to the sea and all the way... To Bon Chan.

11 Oda will just leave this as it is and make millions of fans like you and me keep wondering on these points (see Gyukimaru, or emerald city, or the monsters of the Florian triangle etc etc).
 
I

Inspector_Mu

#11
In order to transform into a specific person with the mane fruit the user must first touch that specific person. Considering he/she can transform into shiki means that this person was probably in Xebec's crew and got the opportunity to touch Shiki. After Xebec defeat this person decided to follow Kaido, hence the talk of "weapons manufacturing" and "big players will back you".

The beast pirates were already planning this far ahead on how to tackle Wano.
:unsure:what if it was actually Shiki plan to invade wano and get materials and make a powerful army

But then Shiki got captured and taken down 24 years ago and 22 years ago, he went hiatus after escaping Impel down

So Orochi didnt have any back up and thought no big play will come back him up... and then Kaido shows up 20 years ago
 
#12
That imo is just a japanese thing, like when the act startes there is the lady playing her instrument nowbthere is this guy. I don't know but I guess that in japanese plays you have people supporting the scenes with music to define them better, it can be compared to the anarrator:
But with Komurasaki she's always shown in a none specfic place whereas This Guy is literally in the same panel as the characters talking... As in Komurasaki is outside of the story when she opens and closes acts but this guy is literally right there seated among the characters while playing the instrument
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we have heavy hints implying he is Zoro's father
This is fan speculation though... no character has atually hinted this... Kawamatsu was able to recognize Onimaru but after meeting Onimaru with his master but looked straight at Zoro (who supposedly looks like this guy) and got Zilch

I don't like this thing where a fan theory gets so popular yet they are unfounded that people actively rag on Oda for not fulfilling their fan theory... If nothing comes from guy then its not Oda just leaving things in the air, it's the fans having been wrong from the start and having made stuff up to begin with
 
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#13
I understand.

But the hag (I really dislike that) was in Wano at least 41 years ago if not longer. While Doflamingo is 42 I think. That doesn't exclude same source influencing both, but does diminish the probability of it.
It does lessen the probability considering the timeline but getting into speculation territory that quote kind of perfectly fits in with WGs victory over the ancient kingdom. Doflamingo with his condescending attitude for being a part of the gods would say something similar along the lines (on the legacy of their conquest over the ancient kingdom).
I can't shake the feeling that this 5 family system feels like a microcosm of that era where the Kurozumi clan are like the celestial dragons in a feud with the other clans (having moon in their names). The old hag must have left Wano for similar reasons, maybe seeking contact with their ancient peers the celestial dragons and this is where it all stems from. This is where I'm kinda coming from.
But that's just me rambling lol, I have tons of thoughts on this chapter.
 
#14
Going to be bold and say it:

The “old hag” is a CP0 Agent. It’s kind of obvious.

Therefore, she has no actual ties to the Kurozumi Family, she simply learned the basics of the history behind the Daimyo Kurozumi’s plot to kill the other daimyos and used her knowledge to manipulate Orochi.

A major point that you brought up is that her ideology is the same as that of Doflamingo. What is a Doflamingo? A Celestial Dragon. Who are intrinsically tied to the Celestial Dragons? CP Aeigis 0.

The reason they have Shiki’s face is also because of an event that we were told about several chapters ago... The Gods Valley incident.


When Xebec attacked the Celestial Dragons, the “old hag” (a Shield of the Celestial Dragons) somehow managed to touch Shiki’s face and subsequently acquired his persona.

The WG sent the “old hag” to Wano so that they could install a shogunate that would end the centuries old policy of not cooperating with the WG.

Feel free to @ me.
 
M

MD Zolo

#15
The reason they have Shiki’s face is also because of an event that we were told about several chapters ago... The Gods Valley incident.


When Xebec attacked the Celestial Dragons, the “old hag” (a Shield of the Celestial Dragons) somehow managed to touch Shiki’s face and subsequently acquired his persona
The God Valley incident happened 38 years ago. The Hag has been manipulating Orochi at least 41 years ago.
 
#17
The God Valley incident happened 38 years ago. The Hag has been manipulating Orochi at least 41 years ago.
True, although that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have left Wano and returned, leaving Wano is difficult for naves but an experienced agent could definitely do it.

Also they could have touched Shiki’s face during the Beehive Incident instead
 
M

MD Zolo

#18
True, although that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have left Wano and returned, leaving Wano is difficult for naves but an experienced agent could definitely do it.

Also they could have touched Shiki’s face during the Beehive Incident instead
Not impossible. I am really confused about the timeline now.

If it IS Shiki, that could mean that Shiki was famous more than 41 years ago. Or there is a more obvious solution: Shiki is from Wano and he left Wano at least 41 years ago.
 
#19
she was probably a member of Rocks crew, I think the face of the young woman she showed is young BM, she showed young shiki as well

how did she know about Wano history? I would guess the samurai who left wano more than 40 years ago met her ( i believe he was a shimotsuki) and told her, he maybe was member of Rocks too

its a bit far fetched but its the only explanation I could come up with

her motivation could be related to Kaido, or just wanted to rule wano in the shadow
 
#20
But with Komurasaki she's always shown in a none specfic place whereas This Guy is literally in the same panel as the characters talking... As in Komurasaki is outside of the story when she opens and closes acts but this guy is literally right there seated among the characters while playing the instrument
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This is fan speculation though... no character has atually hinted this... Kawamatsu was able to recognize Onimaru but after meeting Onimaru with his master but looked straight at Zoro (who supposedly looks like this guy) and got Zilch

I don't like this thing where a fan theory gets so precedent when ts unfounded that people actively rag on Oda for not fulfilling their fan theory... If nothig comes from guy then its not Oda just leaving things in the air, it's the fans having been wrong from the start and having made stuff up to begin with
Probably to do that he would have wasted too much space and at the same time given the same level of importance ofbthe opening of an act which is way too much.

It is a theory with some hints but not enough to confirm anything and honestly I'm fine if Oda leaves it just like it is right now.
 
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