Speculations Are all the Tobi Roppo Defeated (as of Chapter 1021)?
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Yeah when Robin used Demonio Fleur she one shotted Black Maria, it felt like Zoro pulling out Ashura at Enies Lobby..
Her fight differed from Franky and Jinbei.. And for Franky he was able to fight Sasaki one on one due to Franky Shogun, he himself didn't use any new moves.. Then Jinbei basicly just went all out for the first time..
Now i can see Sasaki and WsW fight being over and having dialogues left for lore info.. I hope they're not though
Her fight differed from Franky and Jinbei.. And for Franky he was able to fight Sasaki one on one due to Franky Shogun, he himself didn't use any new moves.. Then Jinbei basicly just went all out for the first time..
Now i can see Sasaki and WsW fight being over and having dialogues left for lore info.. I hope they're not though
Lol I don't even understand the point you are trying to make. The OP was made to show how all 5 F6 members were defeated/shown to be defeated. I then asked if people thought if they were truly defeated based on the info presented.
That's literally it lol. Thats not headcanon. My opinion is separate from that, just like everyone else posting in this thread, including you
That's literally it lol. Thats not headcanon. My opinion is separate from that, just like everyone else posting in this thread, including you
For me they are out, the arc is already long, Oda didn't give the tobiroppos much space to instead show a lot of other stuff: Scabbards action, Momo escape then a lot of time for the rooftop time (and actually that was good) and so the tobiroppos, or better the lesser SHs, get only the leftovers. Like it is happening since the time skip. Also they should be done even because the plot usually goes this way. The lesser SHs get their fights introduced, Oda shos other stuff the next chapters and then they end in a chapter or 2. Then when the arc is closing to ots end there is the Sanji and Zoro fight, which has been ibtroduced a bit before as well (Sanji is already there, Zoro is about to meet King most likely) and finally the long ass fight of Luffy. Just look at Enies lobby. This tine there was the rooftop variant but in the end it didn't impact the formula so much, Oda even brought back Zoro with a magic medicine..
I agree. That does in fact make sense.
Imo, I just think there is a possibility that the awkward transitions for Sasaki/WsW could mean 1/2 extra chapters dedicated to their battles. They never technically ended, unlike Robin's. That's my opinion though, 1022 might just explain that they are, that's all.
There is some unresolved stuff for Sasaki (Denjiro) and WsW (Jinbe/Nika/Sun Pirate relationship, the eye symbol relating to the Mary's, his identity is still not known outside of his CP9 position), but maybe that doesn't matter either.
No I literally have no idea what you are trying to argue lol. You just keep responding in a dumb insulting manner without actually making a point
Imo, I just think there is a possibility that the awkward transitions for Sasaki/WsW could mean 1/2 extra chapters dedicated to their battles. They never technically ended, unlike Robin's. That's my opinion though, 1022 might just explain that they are, that's all.
There is some unresolved stuff for Sasaki (Denjiro) and WsW (Jinbe/Nika/Sun Pirate relationship, the eye symbol relating to the Mary's, his identity is still not known outside of his CP9 position), but maybe that doesn't matter either.
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No I literally have no idea what you are trying to argue lol. You just keep responding in a dumb insulting manner without actually making a point
So we got like maybe as early as next chapter to have this discussion so I feel like it is worth having now.
Most of you know my opinions about this, so I'm going to stay out of it for the most part. But I'm making this thread to at least present everything in one thread since its a good time for everyone to discuss in one place.
So lets begin.
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Chapter 1011/Page One: Had a relatively awkward fight with Nami/Usopp up until this point, but defeated in one punch by Big Mom
- Interesting distinction to make is that while Page One had his body shown in 1012, and people did acknowledge he was hurt, you can see him twitching/struggling in the ground here. Could be he's just convulsing, or maybe not. Make of it what you will.
Another interesting distinction to make about Page One is that he is the only F6 member without named moves. Was he always meant to be fodderized? Or is he meant for more?
___________________________________________________________________________________
Chapter 1013-1016/Ulti: Ulti is an interesting case. She is the only F6 member (thus far) to have been defeated multiple times (discounting her and P1's run in with Luffy and Yamato). Not only was she also hit by Big Mom in 1013, you can also see that she was knocked out plainly on the floor:
- Fodder acknowledges she is hurt. She is very clearly knocked out here at least for the time being, until 1016, where she gets back up and loses to Nami:
NOW, very important here is the fact that Bao Huang herself announced both Page 1 and Ulti are defeated on the next page:
Within the same page, we see the reactions from Sasaki, Whos Who and Black Maria. Conversely however, we don't see closeups of Ulti and Page 1's faces showing that they are done. Nami never gets a "victory" moment after defeating Ulti. Usopp didn't either for Page 1, in fact, Usopp really hasn't gotten anything lol.
Its interesting because it took Oda 6 chapters (1011-1016) to do this. And yet 2 chapters later....
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Chapter 1018/Who's Who: And here is where, in my opinion, things seem to get a little weird. If you followed what I was saying above, then this should make sense. Here is the last page we've seen so far of Jinbe/WsW. They haven't been shown again since:
- 1019 transitions immediately to Sanji and Zoro. No aftermath shown. No exposition of WsW's unconscious/defeated body. No closeup of his face. And yes, the above DOES look like a finishing move, that much is understood. Interesting observation is that Jinbe still looks like he's in battle mode here. There are also still plenty of questions left unanswered about WsW, his identity, and the relationship between the Sun Pirates, Jinbe and Nika. The eye symbol on his body relative to the Marys and Bao Huang
Then peculiarly enough, the same thing happens to Franky vs Sasaki.
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Chapter 1019/Sasaki: This time however, it happens all within the same chapter. You can see the transition immediately following the attack:
- Its a bit different. A closeup of Sasaki's face, but no acknowledgement of victory. No instance of Sasaki laying defeated. The scene transitions immediately to Yamato after. Franky is relatively unhurt and usually has a full arsenal of weapons on his own person, not just the General. Again, make of it what you will.
___________________________________________________________________
Chapter 1021/Black Maria: Now here's something interesting. The conclusion to Robin's fight actually plays out differently from Franky and Jinbe's. She gets the standard double spread finisher:
But Oda didn't transition from the fight immediately, she gets full closure:
With this you can very, very clearly see Black Maria has been defeated. Her subordinates react to her defeat, Robin reacts to winning ("I overdid it a bit"), and she can barely stand after. Compare this to Franky and Jinbe ^^
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So to summarize the alleged defeats:
1011: Page One
1016: Ulti
1018: WsW
1019: Sasaki
1021: Black Maria
One argument that can be made since Bao Huang only announced Page One's defeat 5 chapters after he was punched, WsW and Sasaki's defeats just weren't announced and will be in 1022 or 1023. I can understand that. The peculiar thing however is that Page One did get panel shots of him laying defeated (or twitching lol), while WsW and Sasaki did not. Can we use this as a basis to say they are done? Can we make the opposing argument?
So with that I conclude. Are they all down? Will some of them recover like Ulti/Page One/Jack has several times already? Do some of them have awakening? Is there a distinction going on for WsW and Sasaki? Are Page One and Ulti's defeats unorthodox too? Leave some thoughts.
edit: some tags...
Most of you know my opinions about this, so I'm going to stay out of it for the most part. But I'm making this thread to at least present everything in one thread since its a good time for everyone to discuss in one place.
So lets begin.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Chapter 1011/Page One: Had a relatively awkward fight with Nami/Usopp up until this point, but defeated in one punch by Big Mom
- Interesting distinction to make is that while Page One had his body shown in 1012, and people did acknowledge he was hurt, you can see him twitching/struggling in the ground here. Could be he's just convulsing, or maybe not. Make of it what you will.
Another interesting distinction to make about Page One is that he is the only F6 member without named moves. Was he always meant to be fodderized? Or is he meant for more?
___________________________________________________________________________________
Chapter 1013-1016/Ulti: Ulti is an interesting case. She is the only F6 member (thus far) to have been defeated multiple times (discounting her and P1's run in with Luffy and Yamato). Not only was she also hit by Big Mom in 1013, you can also see that she was knocked out plainly on the floor:
- Fodder acknowledges she is hurt. She is very clearly knocked out here at least for the time being, until 1016, where she gets back up and loses to Nami:
NOW, very important here is the fact that Bao Huang herself announced both Page 1 and Ulti are defeated on the next page:
Within the same page, we see the reactions from Sasaki, Whos Who and Black Maria. Conversely however, we don't see closeups of Ulti and Page 1's faces showing that they are done. Nami never gets a "victory" moment after defeating Ulti. Usopp didn't either for Page 1, in fact, Usopp really hasn't gotten anything lol.
Its interesting because it took Oda 6 chapters (1011-1016) to do this. And yet 2 chapters later....
_______________________________________________________________________
Chapter 1018/Who's Who: And here is where, in my opinion, things seem to get a little weird. If you followed what I was saying above, then this should make sense. Here is the last page we've seen so far of Jinbe/WsW. They haven't been shown again since:
- 1019 transitions immediately to Sanji and Zoro. No aftermath shown. No exposition of WsW's unconscious/defeated body. No closeup of his face. And yes, the above DOES look like a finishing move, that much is understood. Interesting observation is that Jinbe still looks like he's in battle mode here. There are also still plenty of questions left unanswered about WsW, his identity, and the relationship between the Sun Pirates, Jinbe and Nika. The eye symbol on his body relative to the Marys and Bao Huang
Then peculiarly enough, the same thing happens to Franky vs Sasaki.
___________________________________________________________________________
Chapter 1019/Sasaki: This time however, it happens all within the same chapter. You can see the transition immediately following the attack:
- Its a bit different. A closeup of Sasaki's face, but no acknowledgement of victory. No instance of Sasaki laying defeated. The scene transitions immediately to Yamato after. Franky is relatively unhurt and usually has a full arsenal of weapons on his own person, not just the General. Again, make of it what you will.
___________________________________________________________________
Chapter 1021/Black Maria: Now here's something interesting. The conclusion to Robin's fight actually plays out differently from Franky and Jinbe's. She gets the standard double spread finisher:
But Oda didn't transition from the fight immediately, she gets full closure:
With this you can very, very clearly see Black Maria has been defeated. Her subordinates react to her defeat, Robin reacts to winning ("I overdid it a bit"), and she can barely stand after. Compare this to Franky and Jinbe ^^
_______________________________________________
So to summarize the alleged defeats:
1011: Page One
1016: Ulti
1018: WsW
1019: Sasaki
1021: Black Maria
One argument that can be made since Bao Huang only announced Page One's defeat 5 chapters after he was punched, WsW and Sasaki's defeats just weren't announced and will be in 1022 or 1023. I can understand that. The peculiar thing however is that Page One did get panel shots of him laying defeated (or twitching lol), while WsW and Sasaki did not. Can we use this as a basis to say they are done? Can we make the opposing argument?
So with that I conclude. Are they all down? Will some of them recover like Ulti/Page One/Jack has several times already? Do some of them have awakening? Is there a distinction going on for WsW and Sasaki? Are Page One and Ulti's defeats unorthodox too? Leave some thoughts.
edit: some tags...
Sanji prob beats that piece of crap Queen in one chapter
Marco owns King
Inu takes down Jack
I mean, if you can't see how petty you are being at trying to start an argument the last 2 pages then I have nothing else to say. And by reducing the entire thread as "based my headcanon", I'd say that's pretty insulting, cause clearly you don't understand the point of the thread
but whatever let end it here
Ulti was still able to get up after taking a hit from Yamato and even after a beam to the stomach. Oven also continued to fight after taking Ichiji's laser attack in WCI. So to me, THAT is the amount of damage I expect this level of fighter to be able to take without being down for good.
And except for Ulti and maybe Sasaki, I don't feel like the Tobi Roppo are quite there yet. It's not like I 100% believe that they will get back up, but a clarification that if they stay down, I wouldn't be happy with the level of consistency.
And except for Ulti and maybe Sasaki, I don't feel like the Tobi Roppo are quite there yet. It's not like I 100% believe that they will get back up, but a clarification that if they stay down, I wouldn't be happy with the level of consistency.
I think this regeneration works in such a way that you can fight again, but each time you have less energy than before. It would be strange if at least Sasaki and Who's Who didn't get up again. Ulti got up twice after being knocked out by Yamato and later by Big Mom. Jack also regenerated once. The fight between Franky and Sasaki could be exciting again in this case, since Franky no longer wears his shogun armor. But I think Jimbei could beat Who's Who two more times. What speaks in favor of Who's Who getting up again is that we haven't even seen him fight in his beast form.
I rate Page 1 as the weakest and he couldn’t defeat Nami anyway, and Maria’s body could be so broken that a regeneration doesn’t work. Anyway, I doubt we'll see these two fight again.
I rate Page 1 as the weakest and he couldn’t defeat Nami anyway, and Maria’s body could be so broken that a regeneration doesn’t work. Anyway, I doubt we'll see these two fight again.
