Questions & Mysteries Why Roger îs not a swordman

#81
He is not a swordsman, though. At least not in sense of Zoro and Mihawk.
He is a swordsman. It's just that Zoro and mihawk are better swordsmen.
I don't think you understand what a swordsman is. A swordsman is anyone who is good at using a sword. Kizaru is good at using a sword, hence he is a swordsman. Period. That is the literal dictionary definition of that word.

If I were to say:
"Kizaru is a good swordsman, but he is a much better in other styles of combat."

That sentence would make sense because being a swordsman and knowing other styles of combat isn't mutually exclusive. Law is a confirmed swordsman and we know he is also trained in martial arts and with the gun.

People who act as if you can only be a swordsman if you only use a sword are being intellectually dishonest. They would never say such a thing in the real world and are only acting that way because they think that whether or not someone is a swordsman affects Mihawk's power level.

That is not true. It is possible for a character to be a swordsman and be stronger than mihawk if said character is not as good of a swordsman. Take Big Mom. She clearly is a swordsman but her strongest techniques are weather manipulation hence you can make the argument that she is stronger than mihawk. In a sword duel, she would lose against mihawk but in an all out death match, she would win.

and Oda has never validated this argument that the only swordsmen are pure swordsmen. He has confirmed that both Fujitora and Law are swordsmen.
 
#82
Yes, Kizaru is a swordsman

he was strong enough with the sword to spar with Rayleigh and in a pure sword fight, he could have easily beaten people who are confirmed swordsmen like Law and pre-skip zoro.

Does that mean that he has to be weaker than mihawk? No, because Mihawk's title, presumably is only relevant if he beats his opponent in a sword duel. For example, if Mihawk fights big mom and big mom beats mihawk with a hurricane instead of with Napoleon, then big mom ISN'T WSSM.

Kizaru has many fighting styles, swordsman being one of them
Thats how i see it as well.
Swordsmanship is simply fighting with a sword, and someone who does or can is a swordsman.
It would be ludicrous to claim kizaru is not one when his swordsmanship is good enough to compete with rayleigh, but yes, he is not limited by his swordsmanship.

This does not apply to Roger yet though, since he only showed that and haki is not a separate fighting style.
 
#83
still headcanon at this point because you are assuming he had to clash with garp with his fist . its possible
but so far
roger has only shown his skill in swordmanship
we need to see more to arrive at a conclusion.
Your argument also counteracts another one for those who insist shanks isnt a swordsman if his biggest rival is a swordsman, then he probably is as well.
I would wait and see.
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also dont know why roger is just a basic swordssman when he is capable of using adv coa with his sword
or besting oden in a clash with his sword . oden being another capable master swordsman
if anything , roger skill with the sword > oden's.
 
#85
Skill isn't enough to become WSS, that is set in a stone in the manga.
WSS need to be a top tier as well ... unless he is a dead meat ... but how can some one like Mihawk be WSS?

we know as a fact he never beat any top tier
we know he didn't fought any Yonko (Shanks wasn't Yonko at the time)

so it's not like he beat a single person to do that to stood equal to a man of Yonko statue


he either


- beat any man who wanted to be WSS
- he unlocked black blade (highest skill in swordsmanship)

or both ...


and that's it
 
#86
we know as a fact he never beat any top tier
we know he didn't fought any Yonko (Shanks wasn't Yonko at the time)
It is false we don’t know any of that. We do not know Mihawk’s history and Shanks is not the only Yonko.

What we do know is that Mihawk fought a great numbers of people and he became a Warlord when there were no one else to fight. Implied that he fought top tiers.
 
#87
It is false we don’t know any of that. We do not know Mihawk’s history and Shanks is not the only Yonko.

What we do know is that Mihawk fought a great numbers of people and he became a Warlord when there were no one else to fight. Implied that he fought top tiers.
he didn't fough Vista
he didn't fought Big Mom
he didn't fought Dark King
he didn't fought Fujitora
he didn't fought Rain
he didn't fought King

and we still don't know if he ever been in Wano or not and there are many good swordsman there

saying other wise base on some unclear words in data book is not logical


it's not like Mihawk only fought big names

even FODDER SWORDSMAN were among his enemies and we saw that as a fact during MF


saying he fought all above swordsman , he won and become warlord simply cause there was no other person is just so fan fiction

he only beat people who wanted to rival him in having WSS ... and NO top tier is among that list
 
#89
Roger had many extreme battles with garp, as in GARP THE FIST. Unless You think Rogers sword was clashing with garps fist all this time in all these battles, and that îs stupid.

Roger îs Like wb, when needed he can pull his sword bisento to fight weapons, or he punches You into the ground. He îs versatile fighter, not limited to Something.
Zoro(Oda) considered Daz bones a swordsman despite Daz bones not even having a sword.

Now you guys want to tell me a man that fights his most formidable rival (Rocks) with a sword, fights his equal (WB) with a sword etc is not swordsman.

:odenugh::colorbeardugh:
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- Chapter 112: "Let's find out who's stronger the swordsman or the fighter"
Represented by Zoro vs Luffy.

- Golden era: Garp vs Roger, the iconic team up of the top swordsman and the top fighter vs Xebec/Wb/Bm/Shiki/Kaido/etc. Then they proceed to ruthlessly clash against each other in their primes, in the swordsman vs the fighter match up.
Key thing to note is that Oda has never made any implications of Garp being inferior or Roger being superior.

So who's superior the Swordsman or the Fighter? We don't know.

Roger is the only swordsman from the golden era with a named sword attack and you want to say he's not a swordsman. While we're at it might as well declare Garp a non-fighter.
Preach brother preach.
:goyea::cheers::finally:
 
M

MD Zolo

#90
So, exactly what proofs are required by deniers before they accept that Roger is a swordsman?

List all of the proofs you will need. And don't leave any room to change the goalpost either. Make sure to list every proof you need before you will accept Roger as a full-fledged swordsman (and not a sword-user).
 
#92
If Daz bones who doesnt use a sword is a swordsman to according to Zoro, then Kizaru and everyone else that actually have and use swords are swordsmen.
Like i said, i think the same way, but iirc, zoro never called him that
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Look at chapter 195, daz literally points out he is not a swordsman, or not just a swordsman.
 
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#94
Like i said, i think the same way, but iirc, zoro never called him that
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Look at chapter 195, daz literally points out he is not a swordsman, or not just a swordsman.
Bruh, Daz who doesnt even have a sword said that he is not just a swordman cause he has other weapons.

A swordsman is someone who uses a sword.

According to Daz bones he is a not just a swordsman he can use other weapons thus he is an assassin.

This however, doesnt take away from the fact that Daz doesnt have a sword.

Zoror afterwards mocks Daz by saying, if he isnt a swordsman then what is he a miner. This statement alone shows that Zoro thought of Daz as a swordsmanthe entire time.

Daz says he is not only a swordsman but an assassin cause he can use multiple weapons other than a sword. Zoro thought of Daz as a swordsman despite Daz not having a sword.


Another thing to consider is that is using multiple weapons makes you more than just a swordsman, then Zoro by this definition is also not aswordsman now cause we have seen him use a dagger, scythe.

Mihawk is not a swordsman as he uses a dagger as well.

Afterthe Daz bones fight, anyone that uses asword is a swordsman irrespective of otherabilities you have. Otherwise, if we exclude daz bonesfrom being a swordsman cause he can use multiple weapons then by that logic, Zoro is no longer a swordsman.

However we know Zoro is still a swordsman despite being skilled at using other weapons. Couple that with the factthat he thought of Daz as a swordsman despite Daz havin no sword. Then all people are swordsmen so long as Zoro thinks they are swordsmen and so long as they have the skills of a swordman

There is only 1 person in the entire series that Zoro didnt think of as a swordsman despite him having a sword. That person is Luffy. The difference between Luffy and everyone else is that he doesnt know how to use a sword whereas everyoneelse we have seen with a sword knows howto use it.
 
#96
bet ya if roger only shows sword attacks
he wouldnt be a swordsman for some reason
no point searching for it.
apparently garp cant fight xebec cause he only uses his fist.
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Zoro was mocking daz and being sarcastic in his statement.

His statement also shows that he truly did think of Daz as a swordsman despite Daz having no sword.

There is one 1 person that zoro doesnt consider a swordsman when that individual carries a sword. That is Luffy. The reason being is Luffy doesnt know how to fight whilst using a sword. Everyone else we have seen fight with a sword, have all had the skill to use it.
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At this point in time, we may as well make a "Who is an official Swordsman?" thread
True that.

However the funny thing is that Zoro and Mihawk will fail this contest cause they can use other weapons and are skilled at using them.

Zoro has shown he is skilled at using a dagger and scythe. Mihawk has shown he is skilledat using a dagger.

If we go by the definition of people that can use weapons other thathan swords as notswordsmen, then only people like Kyros, Vista etc will be classified as swordmen
 
#97
Bruh, Daz who doesnt even have a sword said that he is not just a swordman cause he has other weapons.

A swordsman is someone who uses a sword.

According to Daz bones he is a not just a swordsman he can use other weapons thus he is an assassin.

This however, doesnt take away from the fact that Daz doesnt have a sword.

Zoror afterwards mocks Daz by saying, if he isnt a swordsman then what is he a miner. This statement alone shows that Zoro thought of Daz as a swordsmanthe entire time.

Daz says he is not only a swordsman but an assassin cause he can use multiple weapons other than a sword. Zoro thought of Daz as a swordsman despite Daz not having a sword.


Another thing to consider is that is using multiple weapons makes you more than just a swordsman, then Zoro by this definition is also not aswordsman now cause we have seen him use a dagger, scythe.

Mihawk is not a swordsman as he uses a dagger as well.

Afterthe Daz bones fight, anyone that uses asword is a swordsman irrespective of otherabilities you have. Otherwise, if we exclude daz bonesfrom being a swordsman cause he can use multiple weapons then by that logic, Zoro is no longer a swordsman.

However we know Zoro is still a swordsman despite being skilled at using other weapons. Couple that with the factthat he thought of Daz as a swordsman despite Daz havin no sword. Then all people are swordsmen so long as Zoro thinks they are swordsmen and so long as they have the skills of a swordman

There is only 1 person in the entire series that Zoro didnt think of as a swordsman despite him having a sword. That person is Luffy. The difference between Luffy and everyone else is that he doesnt know how to use a sword whereas everyoneelse we have seen with a sword knows howto use it.
https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-195-page-8.html
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Daz Bones: I am not a swordsman, there is no just

Zoro mocks him and calls him a tool, it has no implication of what Zoro thought or did not think of him
 
S

Shin'ya🎭

#98
Bruh, Daz who doesnt even have a sword said that he is not just a swordman cause he has other weapons.
Stephen Paul's translation:

Zoro: Hah... Hah...
Tough little bugger...!!!

Mr. 1: Likewise.
By the way, don't think of me as a "swordsman"...
I have an unlimited number of weapons I can use to cut you to shreds...!!!
"SPIRAL HOLLOW"

- Page 172 -

Zoro: So you're not a swordsman,
You're a "MINER"!!!

Mr. 1: I'M AN ASSASSIN.
 
#99
Before the thread derails any further
this argument however is based on what we havent seen roger do
what we have seen from roger is swordmanship
if you assume he has something else, then thats a possibility as well. To say what he has shown this chapter is anything but that is a whole other level that well....
 
M

MD Zolo

https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-195-page-8.html
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Daz Bones: I am not a swordsman, there is no just

Zoro mocks him and calls him a tool, it has no implication of what Zoro thought or did not think of him
Boy the link is full of NSFW ads, and I am at work! :ROFLMAO:

In any case, is this official translation? Because here basically Zoro mocking him and Zoro considers him a swordsman. Daz Bones doesn't though.
 
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