[FNZ] Salem of Lies Round 2 - Town of Salem Test Take 2

[Ratchet]

no you are the one that fails to understand that the post is only weak alone, but has to be completed in a full clause.

But it doesn't Usopp, this is what you keep missing. I don't need to consider the entirety of your posts holistically. I need to consider context, sure, but I've done that, because the posts were made as an independent clause, not one part of a larger whole. I am of the belief that you find scum by finding mistakes in their posts, and that means isolated mistakes that are indicative of a thought process that does not belong to the Town. I feel like I've established all of this, which is why my vote is where it is.

again the post itself is NAI.

But it isn't... you even said it was weak alone. How can it be weak alone, and also NAI? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth, here.

this whole streamline is nothing but townish

You saying it is Townish, does not make it so, no matter how many times you repeat it.

ratchet... this is pure shade because u ONLY focus on one thing and try to get me to be suspected for it, you dont see everything else. its a tunnel AND a shade both dropped in one. if you admit that u r missing the gameflow then i urge you to go back and read b4 we can continue this because it literally has no value if u havent read my posts

Tunneling I can see. I don't think tunneling is inherently scummy, because in many ways it is affected by playstyle rather than motivation, but sure, my play has been almost entirely focused on you so far, at the expense of commenting on everything else. That's because I haven't read everything else. Tunneling is only scummy when ignorance isn't a factor (though, you can argue I'm merely pretending to be ignorant). I've addressed your "it's shading!" claim enough times by now, I don't feel the need to repeat it again.

 

[krogothwolf]

yeah this is nothing compared to what he used to do tbh

I'm just kinda happy to see him putting the walls of text again, Ive missed them so much. Naturally I've fallen for his scum walls of text genius plans a few times.

 

[Lindltaylor]

Among all of these Text walls, why was Drago's so verbose about Ekko's town read, though? Don't think it needed so many words imo.

Either way, @Dragomir still waiting on the Odd case.

and no i meant rej's hololive game. i dont think u played it tho

Yeah, Fuji told me. I died night 1 in that game. First death lol. Then I stopped following it.

 

[Emil]

No Usopp. Townies can attempt tosolve the game by finding fellow Townies, sure. But "you might be town, but you might be scum" is the same as saying nothing. It doesn't establish that the post it is referring to is town-like, because while saying it seems town-like, it also deters people from latching onto it as a town read by giving an example of how it could come from scum too. It's completely redundant, which is why it makes more sense to come from scum than Town. Let me provide some hypotheticals -

no its not the same as nothing
are u saying everyone that says they have a null read is saying nothing?
dont twist the way it was worded ratchet. the post clearly refers to fuji is likely town based off of his different thread opener than last game, BUT he could be faking it so im wary of him. its already hinting at me wanting to give him a town read depending on whether or not i can determine if he is faking his play or not, and guess what? i was able to determine his play and gave him the town read. i made this post for lind, melon, flower, tris and honestly everyone that i attempt to read.

Usopp is Town, Fuji is ???
In this example, Usopp has saw behaviour from Fuji he feels is town-like. It's not a strong read, though. For some reason, Usopp immediately discredits his thought process, leaving him back where he started, and then posts it, because apparently we needed to know this. This is very unsound.

yea usopp saw fuji's thread opener is different from last game so he wants to give him a town read, but also he is wary that fuji could be faking his play. its a 100% townie PoV usopp who is being careful and not just giving the town read for free. it could also be scum usopp, how do we know? town usopp continues the post right after and tries to determine fuji's alignment, scum usopp either discredits fuji, or opposes him to avoid building a potential town leader, or simply ignores the post all together. i mean ive been playing mafia for awhile too if ur gna bring that argument, you can go into my past games as scum and see if i ever drop a post like that from the first page. i have never done something like that off my recent memory as mf.

Usopp is Scum, Fuji is Town (or Scum that Usopp
In this example, Usopp is trying to ingratiate himself with the thread, and needs this as a launching point. He doesn't want other people to town read Fuji, because that would make Fuji harder to potentially mislynch, but he wants to have a post he can point back to later on if people feel like Usopp isn't really looking at who could be town. This makes sense as scum play. Also, if Fuji ends up dead, Usopp has an "accurate" read to his name, which would potentially give his other reads more credibility.

this only makes sense if i left the post as it is. literally the next page ratchet i started giving fuji stronger town read, and it continued forward from there. you should stop because u r just repeating the same points over and over now without making any sense. u just said urself scum usopp doesnt want others to town read fuji cuz it makes him hard to mislynch but what ive done is exactly the opposite, right on page 2, so its donezo for this theory.

Usopp is Scum, Fuji is Scum (with Usopp)
In this example, Usopp is trying to kill several birds with one stone. He is putting out content with a partner of his, because avoiding partners is a giveaway if one of the two flip scum, but he also doesn't want to go too far with town reading his buddy, because if he does, then his reads may later be called into question should Fuji be lynched or killed. This way, if someone points back to this post, Usopp can point out he acknowledged it could come from scum.

I've actually thought through all of these before I said anything, which is why my conclusion is "this comes from scum".

this is outright a joke scenario and im gna just discredit and ignore it all together
just read more of mine and fuji's posts...

 

[Ratchet]

@Ratchet what are your reads?

Usopp - Scum
Drago - Scum
Fuji - Town

Drago because I do not buy that his defence of Usopp was ignorant of certain elements, and Fuji because, in the hypotheticals I posted earlier, both Fuji and Usopp being scum is a risky proposition for both and Usopp's read feels more to me trying to gain credibility than to distance, precisely because of how he tried to discredit the initial read, and then later built it up as a strong town read of his.

 

[Lindltaylor]

I'm just kinda happy to see him putting the walls of text again, Ive missed them so much. Naturally I've fallen for his scum walls of text genius plans a few times.

Seeing prime ratchet play really is a sight for sore eyes. Been sooo long since I've seen this from him. I feel happy too, haha.

The mafia champion flexing his skills. Too bad it's so rare these days.

 

[Flower]

Among all of these Text walls, why was Drago's so verbose about Ekko's town read, though? Don't think it needed so many words imo.

Either way, @Dragomir still waiting on the Odd case.


Yeah, Fuji told me. I died night 1 in that game. First death lol. Then I stopped following it.

Tbh I don‘t see the Odd case. He hasn‘t shown any of his scum tells yet.

 

[Flower]

Seeing prime ratchet play really is a sight for sore eyes. Been sooo long since I've seen this from him. I feel happy too, haha.

The mafia champion flexing his skills. Too bad it's so rare these days.

What are your thoughts?

 

[krogothwolf]

Seeing prime ratchet play really is a sight for sore eyes. Been sooo long since I've seen this from him. I feel happy too, haha.

The mafia champion flexing his skills. Too bad it's so rare these days.

Indeed.

Who is saying odd is scum and why?

Ekko vs Ratchet though right now doesn't look like anything right now really, I'm not sure on it between those to from reading those walls of text.

I fell behind due to work though so I'm missing shit, whats going on with Al and Melon as well as Ekko mentioned them?

 

[Emil]

Odd, feels town to me. He really didn't do the scummy things I remember him doing in Favs. Hasn't tunneled, buddied and his initial posts looked genuine.

What are your reasons for a lynch?

hes only voted on me and never bothered explaining, and tried hard to force me to claim
thats auto scum in my book. hes not looked at any direction other than mine so its tunnel as well

 

[Emil]

I am town.

Lemon seems to be too outgoing and putting herself out there arguing with multiple people and pushing back against the Flowa lynch. Don't think she'd be playing this way as scum. Compared to the last TOS game where she barely posted and wasn't really going at it with players, this game is the opposite. So a slight town lean.

AL. LOL. His tunneling feels ingenuine and forced af. He isn't explaining the supposed slip properly and isn't really being cooperative.

Odd. I am looking at his post and there really isn't much there. He's focusing solely on Sussop, and voted him on the first page off of Susopp's answer about who is scum.


Drago. Had plenty of interactions with various players. One thing I didn't like is his excuse about the other game. Has defended Susopp and Fuji. I read his text on why he believes Susopp is town. Imma put him null for now and let's see what he does with the Odd case.




Don't worry Lindie. It's town Light SZN.

where is ur vote going today? id like more contributions from u, former scummate

 

[Ratchet]

I'm truncatingUsopp's replies, as I don't feel like repeating myself or making my posts redundant.

no its not the same as nothing
are u saying everyone that says they have a null read is saying nothing?

I have not said anything of the sort. A null read can mean anything, from "this person's play is full of NAI posts" to "this person doesn't have enough posts" to "I don't know how to read this player". A read that goes out of its way to say "I think this is townie behaviour, but might be from scum too" is redundant and contributes nothing, while giving the appearance of contributing something.

dont twist the way it was worded ratchet. the post clearly refers to fuji is likely town based off of his different thread opener than last game, BUT he could be faking it so im wary of him.

That's... kinda the problem, lol.

yea usopp saw fuji's thread opener is different from last game so he wants to give him a town read, but also he is wary that fuji could be faking his play. its a 100% townie PoV usopp who is being careful and not just giving the town read for free.

Again, you telling me it is Town!Usopp doesn't really mean what you think it means to me, because when I see you aware of this, I must then consider that you're capable of repeating this as scum.

this only makes sense if i left the post as it is.

This is untrue, and I have demonstrated why it is untrue over and over again by this point.

this is outright a joke scenario and im gna just discredit and ignore it all together

So let me get this straight. You go through each scenario, point by point, and try (but ultimately fail, in my opinion) to dismantle them, but then you come to this one and just... give up? Why would you do this, especially when you alledgedly think I'm scum?

 

[Ratchet]

Ekko vs Ratchet though right now doesn't look like anything right now really, I'm not sure on it between those to from reading those walls of text.

I mean I don't know how you came away with this, Kro.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

where is ur vote going today? id like more contributions from u, former scummate

Don't know yet. It's on Rhea now lol. Imma go watch football now and be back in around 2 hours. I wouldn't mind voting out Odd. Would give us some info on his tunneling on you as well as on Flowa who has soft defended him in a couple of posts.

 

[Lindltaylor]

Tbh I don‘t see the Odd case. He hasn‘t shown any of his scum tells yet.

I don't see it either. I ISO'd him and he has 27 posts. He scum read Ekko, Fuji and Drago as I recall. Says Ekko's reply to him could have been better. Then he suspected Fuji as being scum since his Exe play was a bit too obvious apparently. Then he said he found Drago's posts a bit scummy.

His meta is definitely different than in favs. I think the reason they suspect him is because he really hasn't given proper reasons for his suspects. He also mentioned that he would like Ekko to claim after a few votes on him and then proceed to Light.

I admit he's jumping from suspects and his weird asks for claims have pinged me. But I don't know why he would act that way as scum imo.

What are your thoughts?

Currently, I think Ratchet is town. Although I think he may have to catch up with the thread to give us his thoughts on other players but his focus on Usopp looks very genuine to me. Especially his post about different cases where Usopp is scum/town and Fuji is scum/town. I'd give that a town read for now.

Indeed.

Who is saying odd is scum and why?

Ekko vs Ratchet though right now doesn't look like anything right now really, I'm not sure on it between those to from reading those walls of text.

I fell behind due to work though so I'm missing shit, whats going on with Al and Melon as well as Ekko mentioned them?

Drago is saying Odd is scum and he has yet to give this reason as of my writing.

Al is being scum read by Ekko and me to some extent since I found him tunneling Ekko almost all day a bit much. However, Ekko apparently town reads melon now and she's not really considered for a lynch right now by others.

 

[Dragomir]

you wont see a huge meta change particularly early on when he's town or when he's scum
he can come across the same way
a better indicator is to look into the people he's pushing and how he's pushing it ( aggressively or not) imo.

Let me ask you something, Lanji. Do you remember the games we've played together where I was town? The ones that come to mind for me was Death Note and Covid-19. Try your best to remember how I played in those two games.

Was I aggressive? Was I laid back? If apparently, my town meta is to be laid back and not aggro, then I would say those two games contradict that meta.

In Covid-19, I was aggressive from the jump and got pissed off at Rej D1 telling him off for how bad he was playing. No way no how would I say I was laid back in that game.

Death Note, sure I would say I was laid back. But the main difference between Death Note and this is I wasn't mad at something in Death Note to make me start aggressively defending myself. Here I am, that thing being, calling me a lazy town.

I would say, outside of the lazy town thing, I would say I've been pretty laid back. The Drago is laid back as town is another misconception. The way I play is dependent on my mood, not my alignment.

This is pretty much what I got from Al. But if that is his conclusion, what do you think of it?

Al was tunneling too much on Ekko. Tunneling is usually scum indicative.

No, he wasn't. There's a big difference between tunneling and applying pressure. What Al did was the latter. He thought he caught Usopp slipping and proceeded to question and prod him over it. That's applying pressure. Tunneling would be continuously hounding Usopp for the same thing for several day phases with no progression of reads. That is tunneling and that is suspicious. Undeveloped reads are unnatural and forced. It's what scum do when they're struggling with their fake reads so they latch on to reads from previous day phases.

When players say someone is tunneling, most of the time, that player is just applying pressure.

This can be you, me and Drago someday, somewhere in the Town of Salem

@Fruitji I'm still sad that you left me in the game that must not be spoken about.

You wanna be town core, Linda?

 

[Emil]

But it doesn't Usopp, this is what you keep missing. I don't need to consider the entirety of your posts holistically. I need to consider context, sure, but I've done that, because the posts were made as an independent clause, not one part of a larger whole. I am of the belief that you find scum by finding mistakes in their posts, and that means isolated mistakes that are indicative of a thought process that does not belong to the Town. I feel like I've established all of this, which is why my vote is where it is.

no ratchet, u do need to consider all my posts as one because i often time tend to just speak my mind out. who said posts have to be done in one whole wall of text always? not everyone posts in the same style as u. i will drop my posts how i like them as long as they flow together toward the ultimate goal that is my wincon to yeet scum this game and identify town. u not wanting to read my posts is ur fault so i dont have to defend anything rly. and even if my post is a mistake u think town dont make mistakes? ur being hella tunneling rn ngl

But it isn't... you even said it was weak alone. How can it be weak alone, and also NAI? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth, here.

yea its weak alone hence NAI. thats exactly how it works, if u left it alone it looks like a scum just dropping a summary (which is very weird to have as a post in page 1 btw) but if u continued the whole flow of posts u will realize its towny af. look im repeating the points over and over but u refuse to go and read back my other posts so what even is this case that ur making here? why am i town reading fuji now? why is that post completely meaningless now since the read on fuji has evolved right on the next page within 5 mintues of that post time. why dont u analyze that and tell me

You saying it is Townish, does not make it so, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Tunneling I can see. I don't think tunneling is inherently scummy, because in many ways it is affected by playstyle rather than motivation, but sure, my play has been almost entirely focused on you so far, at the expense of commenting on everything else. That's because I haven't read everything else. Tunneling is only scummy when ignorance isn't a factor (though, you can argue I'm merely pretending to be ignorant). I've addressed your "it's shading!" claim enough times by now, I don't feel the need to repeat it again.

and you saying its scummy does not make it so, no matter how many times you repeat it.
yea im sure u dont think its scummy because u are doing it right now even when u r told multiple times to go read back but you refuse to and instead just assume you are automatically right because u read one post out of like 200 and have absolutely no context whatsover of how that post evolved. it was a shade before and it evolved into a tunnel now

 

[Dragomir]

Among all of these Text walls, why was Drago's so verbose about Ekko's town read, though? Don't think it needed so many words imo.

Either way, @Dragomir still waiting on the Odd case.

Can you have some patience? I already said I will do it later after I catch up. Relax. I'm not going anywhere.

 

[Dragomir]

I love how you've made this sweeping, blasé statement, without actually mentioning anything I've said on the matter whatsoever. Duly noted, Drago.

Yes, but you're not seeing my point. While you may not actually be solving the game for the Town, as scum, you'd want to maintain at least the appearance of doing so. So using your established Town meta as a point in your favour doesn't really work, because by mentioning it you demonstrate that you are aware of it, and by being aware of it, you then possess the ability to appear to be following said meta, without actually following said meta. While solving the game itself is hard to do as scum (not impossible, especially with multiple scum factions present), presenting yourself as solving the game while not actually solving the game isn't just possible, it's intrinsic to playing as scum. It's er, it's kinda the point lol.
But I don't agree that I'm throwing shade, nor do I feel like I've given an activity excuse. I feel like my reasoning here is sound - your read was weak and poorly founded, and ultimately didn't even really serve as a read, because it boiled down to "well he could be town, but he may be scum too". It tells us nothing, and is exactly the kind of faux-contribution I'm looking for when hunting for scum, especially active scum. Your defence of it was "well it was page 1, so of course it was weak and poorly-founded". But here lies the rub. I don't see why, as town, you would feel any reason to make that read. As scum, I could see it being you trying to find town reads to latch onto, but town have next to no motivation to invest reasons to give town reads,as opposed to them coming naturally.

It's one of the biggest difference in how a townie approaches the game and how scum approach the game. And so, even if you may not agree to my point in terms of it being scummy, dismissing and downplaying my argument as "shade" is both disingenuous and sloppy, and it's within this defence that my impression of you in this game goes from "awkward early posts, potentially scum" to "rambling, waffley defence of behaviour that is pretty cut and dry". And that, Usopp, is a more developed scum read.

Vote: Ekkologix

Is this what you're talking about?

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Let me ask you something, Lanji. Do you remember the games we've played together where I was town? The ones that come to mind for me was Death Note and Covid-19. Try your best to remember how I played in those two games.

Was I aggressive? Was I laid back? If apparently, my town meta is to be laid back and not aggro, then I would say those two games contradict that meta.

In Covid-19, I was aggressive from the jump and got pissed off at Rej D1 telling him off for how bad he was playing. No way no how would I say I was laid back in that game.

Death Note, sure I would say I was laid back. But the main difference between Death Note and this is I wasn't mad at something in Death Note to make me start aggressively defending myself. Here I am, that thing being, calling me a lazy town.

I would say, outside of the lazy town thing, I would say I've been pretty laid back. The Drago is laid back as town is another misconception. The way I play is dependent on my mood, not my alignment.

No, he wasn't. There's a big difference between tunneling and applying pressure. What Al did was the latter. He thought he caught Usopp slipping and proceeded to question and prod him over it. That's applying pressure. Tunneling would be continuously hounding Usopp for the same thing for several day phases with no progression of reads. That is tunneling and that is suspicious. Undeveloped reads are unnatural and forced. It's what scum do when they're struggling with their fake reads so they latch on to reads from previous day phases.

When players say someone is tunneling, most of the time, that player is just applying pressure.

You wanna be town core, Linda?

lmao that gif
fair enough
btw whats with the odd vote and thoughts on the text wall on usopp