General & Others Boa Hancock's fate

[True God Moe]

You think Smoker is going to be stronger than Zoro EoS?

Post automatically merged: Dec 26, 2019

anyways Coby's power level aside, given Oda's statement and the fact that a raid on Amazon lily was foreshadowed as far back as the Amazon lily arc, I think its pretty likely the marines will capture Hancock. Given that Coby has been the only marine of merit shown on this mission as well as the fact that he is one of the most significant marines plot wise and has yet to do anything major post skip, I think he will be at least indirectly responsible for Hancock's capture, allowing him to become a vice admiral, like Garp.

I think this is all building up to a mariejois arc/ New Marineford arc. Luffy will have to team up with Dragon in order to save Hancock, Coby, and Vivi. I think we'll see a bunch of cool stuff. Mainly, what I am looking forward to:

• Monkey D Family reunion(luffy meets dragon, dragon meets garp)
• Garp betraying the celestial dragons and possibly dying
• Ryokugyo reveal
• Smoker vs Luffy rematch(since Smo was headed to vegapunk's lab, I think its very likely he got a science power up)
• Luffy vs akainu rematch
• Zoro vs Fujitora rematch
• Garp and Sengoku going all out
• more stuff about IM

Yeah. Better than imagining Coby stronger than Zoro and Sanji. I can't imagine him being Luffy lvl. Doesn't fit him. Smoker on his hand has push that more on his agenda as well being Garp-like in many ways on his end to be honest.

Don't see him beating Boa. Only that someone less take her on. He isn't beating someone COC user and Warlord like that. Doubt he will do anything to her at all if he can't fight her DF powers.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Yeah. Better than imagining Coby stronger than Zoro and Sanji. I can't imagine him being Luffy lvl. Doesn't fit him. Smoker on his hand has push that more on his agenda as well being Garp-like in many ways on his end to be honest.

Luffy himself acknowledged that Coby will eventually become strong enough to fight him. Even if you don't believe that he will become admiral within the time it takes for Luffy to become pirate king, it thematically does not make sense for Coby not to be admiral.

At worst coby won't become admiral until the epilogue which will be 20-30 years in the future but even still, he will be admiral.

 

[Gintoki]

Maybe Koby knows that Hancock helped Luffy to hide and train through Law in Rocky Port incident and Koby will help her with her current predicament.

 

[True God Moe]

Luffy himself acknowledged that Coby will eventually become strong enough to fight him. Even if you don't believe that he will become admiral within the time it takes for Luffy to become pirate king, it thematically does not make sense for Coby not to be admiral.

At worst coby won't become admiral until the epilogue which will be 20-30 years in the future but even still, he will be admiral.

Yes for his dream, but never to the point of fighting to the death. Coby at best could get Midd, but never all out make Luffy go out to kill him or defeat him so badly like his enemies as he will hold back. He can give a challenge, but that is putting it mildly. Also you can use Luffy factor as much as Smoker as Luffy stated he like fighting him when he is 100% and believe in his power handling things like in PH, so kinda push away Coby if he sees Smoker more up there on his end.

Smoker will be FA, Coby be Admiral, that be good for him as he can fight with Luffy, but never to level that Oda pushing more with Smoker on being the one to next one as his major marine rival. Can't see that especially given's Coby's fanboy nature to Luffy contrast Garp having frenenemy relationship with Roger. Smoker fits that dynamic more than Coby does as well nothing shows Coby going to surpassed him and Smoker won't get stronger himself.

 

[Haoshoku]

He hasnt, he was a few months under him pre-ts and then over the ts, which like i said, is hinderee by garp being an active Marine still, so having responsibilities.

Even so Bogard was also involved in training, meaning they got extra training on top of what Garp was giving them. Either way, Coby has always had the higher growth rate by far.

Its a big jump, whixh does not change that your argument is incredibly flawed.
Its the equivalent of "look this completely poor guy made a significant amount of money (50000 for example), of course he can also be a millionaire now, one is significantly higher to achieve than the other.

My argument would look flawed if everyone held this view:

Now you are also exaggerating, he will probably end up in the high tier spectrum somewhere.

He probably is not that far off from Robin and Franky now, while having a greater advancement rate

So Coby is barely on the level of the Adult Trio despite unlocking haki during the Marineford Arc and already learning the basics and displaying above average CoO. No wonder why you were staunch in response to the possibility in Coby playing a significant role vs Hancock if you think he’s barely as strong as Robin and Franky.

Now we see the second massively flawed assumption from you: Thinking that Coby will be an admiral at the end of the series.

That’s not a flawed assumption, its rooted in the narrative, read chapter 433, you are clearly not seeing where Oda is headed with Coby but then again if everyone held this following view my argument would indeed look massively flawed:

Thankfully this absurd fanfic has zero chance of happening. Coby would have to be extremely lucky to pose a challenge to guys like Franky or Robins at EoS.

Him being an admiral is waaaaay down the future.

I mean how do you even reach this conclusion lmao? Not gonna even get into that. But about when he becomes an Admiral....He’s already a Rear Admiral and with the way he’s growing its completely illogical to think he won’t end up as an Admiral by the Final Arc. Again read chapter 433. Oda wouldn’t just have Luffy and Zoro accomplish their goals while a character who was introduced around the same time wouldn’t.

And btw, the statement "Coby with assist by SSG/Vegapunk´s invention" makes it seem like Coby is the essential part, since he is "only" assisted by the invention or unit, pretty much disregarding the fact that it is or they are such a game changer that the WG pretty much oked the dissolution of the Shichibukai, a group they held onto due to the balance despite their significant past and even present crimes, and a group that pretty much equals one Yonkou crew with Mihawk being a full fledged top tier and having several high tiers.
So such a power, yeah of course Coby could manage if he had that as "assist".

Yeah and so? I don’t think you are clearly reading everything I’m posting, I said I think this is what happened and already made my overall point very clear:

Btw I’m not saying I think Coby can defeat Hancock, I’m saying if it happened, there’s no reason to see it as an asspull of any kind.

And we don’t know what the SSG is, whether its some newly made Pacifistas or straight up artillery.... you are reading into what I said too much, all I was trying to say is that I think the SSG shit helped Coby in a winning team effort to take Hancock down, the only reason I used the word “assist” is because I think the whole purpose of Oda having Coby go fight Hancock is to give him the first real feats that will matter in relation to Luffy and so Coby will become the hero of this incident and share a good portion of the credit when Hancock’s defeat is revealed to the world.

But back to my point, I will say it again: I still do not see the issue in Oda using Hancock’s capture and defeat at the hands of Coby as a momentous feat for his character especially when he has been steadily on the rise and from a narrative standpoint his goal dictates for him to accomplish greater feats. Again it is well within the realm of possibility that Oda would have Coby achieve a feat as big as this considering his character, goals and how that bodes for his overall future narrative.

Would it be an overachievement? Sure, but overachievement wouldn’t even be the word you’d use for some of the victories Luffy has managed to pull off. It just means Coby was farther along than we thought, which wouldn’t be much of surprise considering his growth rate. Which means there’s nothing stopping Oda from giving Coby a similar victory to Luffy, how people personally judge it is not my business. All I’m saying is that its possible and there wouldn’t be much of an issue with it if it occurred.
There would be absolutely no reason of having this panel if Coby was not going to be playing a significant role vs Hancock. Why would Oda bother himself to even include such a panel if he stood “zero chances” or wasn’t playing a significant role? like that ain’t even make sense from a narrative standpoint at all if a fight happened.

Some of yall are also overrating Hancock and putting her on a level (Doflamingo/YC3 echelon) that she hasn’t shown she’s in and acting like its something well established when it isn’t. But since some of yall also think Coby is weaker than Robin (a pretty baseless take) then of course if Hancock was even = to base Sanji, he’d get beat the living shit out of him lmao.

That all being said, maybe I’m overestimating Coby and he will get one shot after all the proclamations of becoming an Admiral and challenging Luffy in chapter 433, the feat of the Rocky Port Incident, the hype to his CoO and the recent jump in ranks frankly we will have to wait and see I don’t really like discussing unknown events all that much until we properly see it. If I’m wrong Imma own up to it.

If Hancock indeed got captured, so much for her "badass" reaction to her being stripped of her Warlord status. I hope she had something planned because that would just make her look like a donkey.

The marines probably outschemed anything she planned and as an element of surprise probably tested the new SSG weaponry shit on the Warlords themselves. Which could explain why she wouldn’t see it coming even if she planned something.

 

[Cyrus the Cactus]

It’s pretty hypocritical for people to think Zoro and Sanji can defeat King and Queen despite their lack of feats and say Koby can’t beat Hancock for the same reason...

For Oda, plot >>>> preconceived power levels. Will the plot necessitate Koby beating Hancock though? That’s the million dollar question.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Even so Bogard was also involved in training, meaning they got extra training on top of what Garp was giving them. Either way, Coby has always had the higher growth rate by far.

My argument would look flawed if everyone held this view:

So Coby is barely on the level of the Adult Trio despite unlocking haki during the Marineford Arc and already learning the basics and displaying above average CoO. No wonder why you were staunch in response to the possibility in Coby playing a significant role vs Hancock if you think he’s barely as strong as Robin and Franky.


That’s not a flawed assumption, its rooted in the narrative, read chapter 433, you are clearly not seeing where Oda is headed with Coby but then again if everyone held this following view my argument would indeed look massively flawed:

I mean how do you even reach this conclusion lmao? Not gonna even get into that. But about when he becomes an Admiral....He’s already a Rear Admiral and with the way he’s growing its completely illogical to think he won’t end up as an Admiral by the Final Arc. Again read chapter 433. Oda wouldn’t just have Luffy and Zoro accomplish their goals while a character who was introduced around the same time wouldn’t.


Yeah and so? I don’t think you are clearly reading everything I’m posting, I said I think this is what happened and already made my overall point very clear:

And we don’t know what the SSG is, whether its some newly made Pacifistas or straight up artillery.... you are reading into what I said too much, all I was trying to say is that I think the SSG shit helped Coby in a winning team effort to take Hancock down, the only reason I used the word “assist” is because I think the whole purpose of Oda having Coby go fight Hancock is to give him the first real feats that will matter in relation to Luffy and so Coby will become the hero of this incident and share a good portion of the credit when Hancock’s defeat is revealed to the world.

But back to my point, I will say it again: I still do not see the issue in Oda using Hancock’s capture and defeat at the hands of Coby as a momentous feat for his character especially when he has been steadily on the rise and from a narrative standpoint his goal dictates for him to accomplish greater feats. Again it is well within the realm of possibility that Oda would have Coby achieve a feat as big as this considering his character, goals and how that bodes for his overall future narrative.

Would it be an overachievement? Sure, but overachievement wouldn’t even be the word you’d use for some of the victories Luffy has managed to pull off. It just means Coby was farther along than we thought, which wouldn’t be much of surprise considering his growth rate. Which means there’s nothing stopping Oda from giving Coby a similar victory to Luffy, how people personally judge it is not my business. All I’m saying is that its possible and there wouldn’t be much of an issue with it if it occurred.
There would be absolutely no reason of having this panel if Coby was not going to be playing a significant role vs Hancock. Why would Oda bother himself to even include such a panel if he stood “zero chances” or wasn’t playing a significant role? like that ain’t even make sense from a narrative standpoint at all if a fight happened.

Some of yall are also overrating Hancock and putting her on a level (Doflamingo/YC3 echelon) that she hasn’t shown she’s in and acting like its something well established when it isn’t. But since some of yall also think Coby is weaker than Robin (a pretty baseless take) then of course if Hancock was even = to base Sanji, he’d get beat the living shit out of him lmao.

That all being said, maybe I’m overestimating Coby and he will get one shot after all the proclamations of becoming an Admiral and challenging Luffy in chapter 433, the feat of the Rocky Port Incident, the hype to his CoO and the recent jump in ranks frankly we will have to wait and see I don’t really like discussing unknown events all that much until we properly see it. If I’m wrong Imma own up to it.

The marines probably outschemed anything she planned and as an element of surprise probably tested the new SSG weaponry shit on the Warlords themselves. Which could explain why she wouldn’t see it coming even if she planned something.

And who is Bogard supposed to be? No portrayal, hype and so forth, Oda pretty much forgot about him.
And once again, the lower you start, the higher is your rate, something you over and over seem to ignore.

Yep, Haki does not automatically turn you into a beast, Luffy literally beat a dude with above average CoO that spun the entire island, a feat so far only matched by Rayleigh, and one of the greatest abilities there is, without any gears.
Same as Snake sisters, one of them even had advanced CoA, didn´t mean much.
On the other hand you have Franky taking on the Marines and some DD pirates by himself and continuing on to beat one of them while completely refraining from using all his powerups over the TS, and Robin humiliating a 330 million pirate.
Haki is a significant powerup for anyone, it´s always better to have it, but Haki does not make you automatically stronger than those that do not have it.

Oda is following Luffy being a hugely inspirational figure for the next generation due to his personality and mental strength, so much so that they will follow their dreams and achieve it, even if said dream seems incredibly outlandish.
This is Coby, Aisa, Vivi, Rebecca, Shirahoshi, Momo.
Coby is not the grand enemy of Luffy that will challenge him in the end, that´s your mistake.
Down the line? Definitely, i would not even be surprised if we see at some point Coby challenging Luffy in a kind of epilogue.
But until Luffy becoming PK and pretty much saving the world? Nope.

Rear Admiral and Admiral is the difference between having a steady income and being a billionaire.

I did read it, your claim is, Coby will be the main factor and Hancock is gonna be success story for him that will make his ascend more credible, and he will "only" get an assist.
And that´s where the problem is, assist literally implies only that, assist, meaning it´s a help but is not the crucial thing, i disagree wholeheartedly, it´s a power that made the Gorosei go "ok, we might not need the Shichibukai anymore", a power that has Mihawk, a rival to one of the Yonkou, and a top tier, so highly relevant to the balance. Even if you disregard the other Shichibukai, Mihawk alone is an argument for it, he hardly has any significant crimes on his belt, and is a huge asset.
So VP´s invention and the SSG is such a power that makes losing Mihawk not so bad.
And such a power is not an assist, no matter how you try to spin it.
Coby might use that power, so the SSG power is confirmed while Coby still gets some of the credit, but that´s still different from the events you are talking about.

And i both already denied that Coby underestimation and Hancock overestimation is the root of denying Coby a credible chance against Hancock.

 

[Den_Den_Mushi]

For Oda, plot >>>> preconceived power levels. Will the plot necessitate Koby beating Hancock though? That’s the million dollar question.

I think the plot necessitates Hancock being taken down and captured. Coby is not alone, he has a whole fleet and the SSG behind him. I don’t get why people are freaking out over the whole Coby vs Hancock thing, it’s clear that Oda won’t rough her up too much (because she’s a beautiful woman) but it’s also clear that Oda wants to show off the results of Coby’s training and Vegapunk’s genius. Those two combined should be enough to defeat her. Meanwhile Weevil and Mihawk, who are being saved as future opponents/antagonists will defeat the SSG, thus hyping themselves by defeating the weapon that beat Hancock.

I think people need to stop clinging onto preconceived notions of powerscaling and power levels. Oda is exhausted from 20+ years of writing and wants to end the series in 5 years. Zoro and Sanji will be taking on top commanders with little experience. Just sit back, relax and hope that Oda will do the fights and characters justice.

 

[dirtyLarry]

That’s not a flawed assumption, its rooted in the narrative, read chapter 433, you are clearly not seeing where Oda is headed with Coby but then again if everyone held this following view my argument would indeed look massively flawed:

I mean how do you even reach this conclusion lmao? Not gonna even get into that. But about when he becomes an Admiral....He’s already a Rear Admiral and with the way he’s growing its completely illogical to think he won’t end up as an Admiral by the Final Arc. Again read chapter 433. Oda wouldn’t just have Luffy and Zoro accomplish their goals while a character who was introduced around the same time wouldn’t.

Unfortunately I for one understand the concepts and writing of OP better than most of you guys ever will.

It was obvious on Orojackson, where my points and predictions about general writing ideas turned out true the vast majority of time, it is still true today.

I'm a bit sorry that you can't understand that Coby will never even sniff at being an admiral by the time this series ends though. He's still lightyears away from that and in a few years you will also see that I was 100% right in this case, too. Being a VA is his best shot for EoS and that's already really generous.

To easily shoot down your claim about chapter 433: Coby vows that he will be much stronger next time they meet. That's all. Well, he has accomplished that, congrats. Then before they say goodbye he literally states - original quote - "O-one day ... I'll become a marine a-a-admiral."
"One day" being the key phrase here. That literally underlines my point even more. He will be much stronger when they meet again (check), he will one day - way down the future - become an admiral.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

I think the plot necessitates Hancock being taken down and captured. Coby is not alone, he has a whole fleet and the SSG behind him. I don’t get why people are freaking out over the whole Coby vs Hancock thing, it’s clear that Oda won’t rough her up too much (because she’s a beautiful woman) but it’s also clear that Oda wants to show off the results of Coby’s training and Vegapunk’s genius. Those two combined should be enough to defeat her. Meanwhile Weevil and Mihawk, who are being saved as future opponents/antagonists will defeat the SSG, thus hyping themselves by defeating the weapon that beat Hancock.

I think people need to stop clinging onto preconceived notions of powerscaling and power levels. Oda is exhausted from 20+ years of writing and wants to end the series in 5 years. Zoro and Sanji will be taking on top commanders with little experience. Just sit back, relax and hope that Oda will do the fights and characters justice.

I agree, especially after Oda pretty much referred to it, Hancock will get captured, but Oda will not completely throw away any notion of logic, even if it is regarding power levels. If he had done that, WCI would have gone completely different, Luffy would not have gotten oneshotted by Kaidou and so forth.
And to justify them taking commanders on, he is doing anything he can, from Sanji accepting a suit he swore to never use, to giving Zoro significant powerups before he even starts fighting seriously (we have not even seen both of them in a straightforward match-up since Thriller Bark), so it does not lose all credibility.

 

[dirtyLarry]

I think the plot necessitates Hancock being taken down and captured. Coby is not alone, he has a whole fleet and the SSG behind him. I don’t get why people are freaking out over the whole Coby vs Hancock thing, it’s clear that Oda won’t rough her up too much (because she’s a beautiful woman) but it’s also clear that Oda wants to show off the results of Coby’s training and Vegapunk’s genius. Those two combined should be enough to defeat her. Meanwhile Weevil and Mihawk, who are being saved as future opponents/antagonists will defeat the SSG, thus hyping themselves by defeating the weapon that beat Hancock.

I think people need to stop clinging onto preconceived notions of powerscaling and power levels. Oda is exhausted from 20+ years of writing and wants to end the series in 5 years. Zoro and Sanji will be taking on top commanders with little experience. Just sit back, relax and hope that Oda will do the fights and characters justice.

I think we can all agree on that she will be captured. That's what the plot dictates and what Oda himself heavily alluded to.
Coby won't have anything to do with it (directly) for several reasons.
Even if we leave powerscaling issues aside, there are many other problems.
The biggest one: Oda simply wouldn't let a generally likable character like Coby beat up a beautiful woman and fan-favorite in a brawl ( and Coby IS a melee fighter, that would be his only chance of defeating her). Zero chance of that happening. Actually below zero to be honest.

 

[Albino 👑]

If we taking into account all the other marines, vegapunk's, invention, and potentially an admiral then yeah coby definitely has a chance lol

At the same time coby helped beat whitebeard. He did fight in marineford against them but just nah. Tho tbh hell more than likely play a bigger role here than against newgate

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Yes for his dream, but never to the point of fighting to the death. Coby at best could get Midd, but never all out make Luffy go out to kill him or defeat him so badly like his enemies as he will hold back. He can give a challenge, but that is putting it mildly. Also you can use Luffy factor as much as Smoker as Luffy stated he like fighting him when he is 100% and believe in his power handling things like in PH, so kinda push away Coby if he sees Smoker more up there on his end.

Smoker will be FA, Coby be Admiral, that be good for him as he can fight with Luffy, but never to level that Oda pushing more with Smoker on being the one to next one as his major marine rival. Can't see that especially given's Coby's fanboy nature to Luffy contrast Garp having frenenemy relationship with Roger. Smoker fits that dynamic more than Coby does as well nothing shows Coby going to surpassed him and Smoker won't get stronger himself.

regardless I think that Coby and Smoker will be like Garp and Sengoku to Luffy

as for who is Garp and who is sengoku, idk.

 

[True God Moe]

regardless I think that Coby and Smoker will be like Garp and Sengoku to Luffy

as for who is Garp and who is sengoku, idk.

Hmmm...Feel like Hina is next Sengoku as don't her and Smoker relationship close like theirs and seem to have same mentality like Sengoku in ways. Though then again she could next Tsuru too as well.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

You guys watched too much Naruto, not everything has to have a parallel, nor are they completely the same.
Roger did not have a Coby, and Garp and him nearly killed each other many times.
Smoker is like Garp in the sense of being focused on their targets, taking it personal, yet still can not bring themselves to dislike their target.
Smoker will never be dangerous for Luffy though, and in the end probably fight against the WG together.

 

[True God Moe]

You guys watched too much Naruto, not everything has to have a parallel, nor are they completely the same.
Roger did not have a Coby, and Garp and him nearly killed each other many times.
Smoker is like Garp in the sense of being focused on their targets, taking it personal, yet still can not bring themselves to dislike their target.
Smoker will never be dangerous for Luffy though, and in the end probably fight against the WG together.

I can't visible see Coby to that with Luffy given his goal and personality is more inspired and fanboyism than actually like Garp and Roger. Smoker fits the build more and it's to downplay him for one arc when Oda still values him highly as shown as one of Top Tiers as well with Hancock in beating Bullet with Luffy in last movie. Both Smoker and Coby were included in there yet Smoker was given more important role than Coby overall in there.

Doubt we see last of Smoker and he going to hit big times just like Luffy later on and EOS.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

I can't visible see Coby to that with Luffy given his goal and personality is more inspired and fanboyism than actually like Garp and Roger. Smoker fits the build more and it's to downplay him for one arc when Oda still values him highly as shown as one of Top Tiers as well with Hancock in beating Bullet with Luffy in last movie. Both Smoker and Coby were included in there yet Smoker was given more important role than Coby overall in there.

Doubt we see last of Smoker and he going to hit big times just like Luffy later on and EOS.

Yep that is true.

I think Smoker will get significantly stronger, maybe even have Awakening, due to learning stuff from Vegapunk, who is the biggest expert on DFs.
But Luffy is now reaching top tier spectrum, so once again getting ahead.

 

[Erkan12]

Hancock has one disadvantage in comparison with Mihawk, Weevil and Buggy. She has to protect her island, because that's where she is living.

Mihawk told Perona that it's good that she is leaving because he can't protect people on his own island apparently, Buggy already said he is going to run and Weevil doesn't have anyone other than his mama to protect and they are both running as well.

We know Amazon Lily is Hancock's country and she is the Empress of that nation, she wouldn't want to leave the country even if she doesn't care about her own citizens. I think that's what would make her get captured, staying and not running away like the rest of them does.

 

[True God Moe]

Yep that is true.

I think Smoker will get significantly stronger, maybe even have Awakening, due to learning stuff from Vegapunk, who is the biggest expert on DFs.
But Luffy is now reaching top tier spectrum, so once again getting ahead.

Or course Luffy will be strongest in the series, but there be those who are very close to his lvl at EOS being certain few who at PK lol like how Roger had Whitebeard, Shiki, Garp, and maybe Sengoku.

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2019

Hancock has one disadvantage in comparison with Mihawk, Weevil and Buggy. She has to protect her island, because that's where she is living.

Mihawk told Perona that it's good that she is leaving because he can't protect people on his own island apparently, Buggy already said he is going to run and Weevil doesn't have anyone other than his mama to protect and they are both running as well.

We know Amazon Lily is Hancock's country and she is the Empress of that nation, she wouldn't want to leave the country even if she doesn't care about her own citizens. I think that's what would make her get captured, staying and not running away like the rest of them does.

You saying Hancock might choose to give herself up or retreat in favor to save others than all out fight in worried for her people?

 

[Albino 👑]

Captain koby got this