Speculations Having a hax DF prevents the user from having much better haki

[ardym]

We know that the best haki user are not DF user , best exampe Roger , Garp , Rayleigh , Mihawk and Shanks
so i assume the main reason for that is that having a hax DF have a major draw back for the user as well
those people who have such DF can win most their fights without the need to use haki , and as Rayleigh said
haki blooms in extreme fights , sure there is still a possibility of growing but only if they fight someone with equal hax DF or much better haki . but such person are rare.
for example Akainu vs Aokiji they fought 10 days i imagine now they have better haki then they had in MF
Magellan for example i think he has really weak haki , because he win his fights with one strike usually
I imagine Kaido doesn't have the best armament because he already have a tough body and a DF that make his body tougher
that goes for Kizaru i think he doesn't have the best armament either because he is faster and is logia but at the end an old Rayleigh went with toe to toe
Buggy will not have a good armament since he doesn't have to defend himself against swords.
Blackbeard will not have better armament than shanks because he has the gura gura no mi
Sabo will be more powerful with mera mera no mi because he has good haki before he ate it .
even Zoro seemed to have better armament than Luffy as they just entered the new world because Luffy's DF make him strong enough for the time being now after he had to fight people like Katakuri and Kaido he improved his haki.
so Law doesn't have a good haki because of his hax DF as well i bet he never has such difficulties before he fought Doffy

 

[Gol D. Roger]

It has to do with their own innate potential with Haki and the amount of time being invested to train Haki. People without a devils fruit have more time to train their physical stats and Haki than DF users, so they usually have better stats.

 

[Dark Knight Sanji]

Whitebeard says hello!

 

[ardym]

Whitebeard says hello!

sure but he had to fight the likes of Garp and Roger normal he has good haki as well

 

[Inspector_Mu]

Having a powerful or hax df doesn't make you have weaker haki tho

It's just that if you focused on df more than haki then yeah

 

[Finalbeta]

Haki might be as important as hax

After all Luffy can low-mid diff his previous self just after grasping the basics of the new haki stage

 

[KiriNigiri]

Interesting enough, a lot of wielders of hax Devil fruits are typically not strong individuals themselves. Sugar, Foxy, Magellan, Vander Decken, Perona, Bonney, Toki, Enel, Moria all have ridiculous powerful abilities, but are either not combatants or they rely on their powers too much, they neglect their other traits.

It's an interesting dichotomy. Even a strong fruit can only take you so far, while innate hardwork, and a bit of creativity, has endless possibilities.

 

[Rmstorm]

I wonder if it has something to do with the idea of DFs having to do with accepting a “devil” and its will into your body that coexists with your actual spirit/Haki...the power that Haki grants you can’t serve two masters at once.

Devil Fruit Awakening is acieved by working together with the spirit in the Devil Fruit.

 

[Mr. Anderson]

Whitebeard says hello!

The admirals were able to block WB's quake with a barrier. Chances are people like Roger and Garp pushed WB to strengthen his haki

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Whitebeard says hello!

WB´s ability is not hax though, it just creates such a powerful blast by shifting theoretical plates that not many can withstand it.

There is nothing external preventing anybody from learning something.

 

[Dark Knight Sanji]

WB´s ability is not hax though, it just creates such a powerful blast by shifting theoretical plates that not many can withstand it.

There is nothing external preventing anybody from learning something.

WB's fruit is literally called the Strongest Parameica that there is, also we haven't seen all the fruit can do, and shifting tectonic plates is still a hax ability. When you have paramecia like BM's fruit and Law's Ope Ope no mi, and you take into consideration the fact that the Tremor Tremor fruit supersedes both, well if that isn't hax I don't know what is!

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2020

The admirals were able to block WB's quake with a barrier. Chances are people like Roger and Garp pushed WB to strengthen his haki

It took 3 admirals using advanced haki to block it! I would call that pretty hax! Also, my point was that having an op fruit doesn't mean you aren't the top of tiers when it comes to haki, as Whitebeard clearly shows!

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

WB's fruit is literally called the Strongest Parameica that there is, also we haven't seen all the fruit can do, and shifting tectonic plates is still a hax ability. When you have paramecia like BM's fruit and Law's Ope Ope no mi, and you take into consideration the fact that the Tremor Tremor fruit supersedes both, well if that isn't hax I don't know what is!

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2020

It took 3 admirals using advanced haki to block it! I would call that pretty hax! Also, my point was that having an op fruit doesn't mean you aren't the top of tiers when it comes to haki, as Whitebeard clearly shows!

Nothing of this equals to hax ability. I think we have a discrepancy in what hax means in context with combat abilities.

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2020

WB's fruit is literally called the Strongest Parameica that there is, also we haven't seen all the fruit can do, and shifting tectonic plates is still a hax ability. When you have paramecia like BM's fruit and Law's Ope Ope no mi, and you take into consideration the fact that the Tremor Tremor fruit supersedes both, well if that isn't hax I don't know what is!

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2020

It took 3 admirals using advanced haki to block it! I would call that pretty hax! Also, my point was that having an op fruit doesn't mean you aren't the top of tiers when it comes to haki, as Whitebeard clearly shows!

It took 3 Admirals to protect what they were to protect, meaning create a barrier to stop the entire shockwave area.
Which is entirely different than protecting yourself.

 

[Lampyris]

Where are these talented haki fighters hiding then? Roger's crew, Garp, Mihawk and the Shanks crew are the exceptions.

There are thousands and thousands of pirates out there who have no DF but all this free time to work on their haki skills. Instead we see:

- Every Emperor except Shanks has a powerful DF
- Every Warlord except Jinbe and Mihawk uses a powerful DF (Film Z strongly hinted Weevil has one)
- Every Admiral pre-TS and post-TS has a powerful DF. Zephyr didn't, but he's not in the manga.
- Every Worst Gen member except Zoro and Killer has a DF. Only about a third of them can be called overpowered.
- The top fighters in every Emperor crew and Rev Army except the Red Hair pirates are predominately DF users.. Vista and Burgess are not. The higher you go, the more likely their DF is overpowered like Marco, Katakuri and Sabo for the Revs.

It looks like rather than becoming proficient in haki, you will just end up with a small-time pirating career. The only thing I can say for sure is that having a strong DF and strong haki is the combination the big names strive for.

 

[soultrain]

It will all go down to what a character wants. If the goal is King of Pirates, he/she will have to be good at everything, because even hax fruits can be fodder to the top tiers of One Piece. But if said character just wants to be among the 1000 strongest, a hax fruit will be enough. Because one rarely improves if not by struggle or discomfort.

 

[Camie]

This is why I love Luffy's DF so much. He has no choice but to train his haki to the fullest. All his attacks are all physical. Punches and kicks.

I'd imagine for Logias, they dont train their haki as much cause they rely on the fruit mostly.

 

[Garps tekkai]

I think your definition of "hax" is a little bit off, but I get what you mean and I agree. Some very good examples in there, especially Magellan, totally forgot about that guy. Enel would be a good example aswell.

It's like you said, the need to improve in a certain way just wasn't, isn't or shouldn't be there.
And therefore it's practically impossible to be the best in everything.
For people that do point out WB for example, him developing great CoO for example would be a must, cause otherwise guys simply could snipe him/catch him off guard with different abilites, while he doesn't have the durability of BM or Kaido to just take it unharmed. Kizaru basically did that in MF.

And who knows what's up with his versatility. There are still things like mobility, movement speed, agility, the ability to fly via various means, which Oda himself seemingly highly values aswell, where a guy like Marco for example is probably superior in within every single attribute. He doesn't necessarily need it, but it just shows that there would still be potential room to grow.

All in all it goes to show, that in reverse, for specific cases, their absence of certain techs/skills is very much explainable aswell.
I think BM and Kaido are the best recent examples. They are the ones that rather force guys into developing adv.CoA and great CoO, not the other way around. It doesn't mean that its impossible for them to have it, just that for now I think the chance is rather slim.

Narrative wise, it obviously helps to keep things interesting, cause it boosts diversity and powerlvl wise it simply balances things out.

 

[Rmstorm]

I think your definition of "hax" is a little bit off, but I get what you mean and I agree. Some very good examples in there, especially Magellan, totally forgot about that guy. Enel would be a good example aswell.

It's like you said, the need to improve in a certain way just wasn't, isn't or shouldn't be there.
And therefore it's practically impossible to be the best in everything.
For people that do point out WB for example, him developing great CoO for example would be a must, cause otherwise guys simply could snipe him/catch him off guard with different abilites, while he doesn't have the durability of BM or Kaido to just take it unharmed. Kizaru basically did that in MF.

And who knows what's up with his versatility. There are still things like mobility, movement speed, agility, the ability to fly via various means, which Oda himself seemingly highly values aswell, where a guy like Marco for example is probably superior in within every single attribute. He doesn't necessarily need it, but it just shows that there would still be potential room to grow.

All in all it goes to show, that in reverse, for specific cases, their absence of certain techs/skills is very much explainable aswell.
I think BM and Kaido are the best recent examples. They are the ones that rather force guys into developing adv.CoA and great CoO, not the other way around. It doesn't mean that its impossible for them to have it, just that for now I think the chance is rather slim.

Narrative wise, it obviously helps to keep things interesting, cause it boosts diversity and powerlvl wise it simply balances things out.

Only Kaido needs Advanced CoA to be hurt.

Big mom needed to use her haki combined with her divil fruit( G4 flame pattern, Katakuri sticky mochie flame pattern), and her body weight to block a normal G4 Boundman Kong Gun without Advanced Haki.

It still shook her arm indicatiing she felt that hit. Only Kaido can take attacks G4 without haki.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

to be fair, Akainu has better haki feats than Garp. He showed ACoA deflection against a gura gura no mi shockwave as well as possible Future sight against Marco and vista

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2020

even Zoro seemed to have better armament than Luffy as they just entered the new world because Luffy's DF make him strong enough for the time being now after he had to fight people like Katakuri and Kaido he improved his haki.

I don't think this is true. Nothing suggests it is true.

Luffy's strongest techniques are based off his CoA so if anything, Luffy's CoA should be stronger

Post automatically merged: Jan 9, 2020

so Law doesn't have a good haki because of his hax DF as well i bet he never has such difficulties before he fought Doffy

This is straight up false.

He was able to fully block Doffy's strings with his CoA. Id argue he might have had better CoA than Luffy in dressrosa

 

[dirtyLarry]

 

[Jack Newgate]

Interesting enough, a lot of wielders of hax Devil fruits are typically not strong individuals themselves. Sugar, Foxy, Magellan, Vander Decken, Perona, Bonney, Toki, Enel, Moria all have ridiculous powerful abilities, but are either not combatants or they rely on their powers too much, they neglect their other traits.

It's an interesting dichotomy. Even a strong fruit can only take you so far, while innate hardwork, and a bit of creativity, has endless possibilities.

Or Oda designed the characters with balance issues in mind. If they have hax DF abilities they'll likely get weaker physical attributes so as not be overpowered. But there are a few exceptions. BM has an incredibly hax fruit, and was basically born with top tier strength, durability and haki - barely any training involved.