Versus Battle Tou Vs Earl Shi Ei

[Elder Lee Hung]

Name: Tou
Rank: Great General Of Qin, Ouki’s Right Hand Man (Former)
Accomplishments: Stated by Ouki to be his equal in ability, slayed Rinbukun Of Chu (Rinbukun had slain over 100 Xiongnu Commanders)

Name: Earl Shi
Rank: Great General Of Wei, Wei Fire Dragon
Accomplishments: Had slain over 500 Men by the time he turned 15, was thrust into battles with the intent of killing him at a young age but did not die, personally slayed 3 of the Wei Fire Dragons

Who Wins and Why?

I would personally favor the Earl, his martial hype/story is just unreal, Tou is obviously extremely strong but Earl Shi is just a complete maniac. Plus Spear > Sword so there’s that lol.

@Owl Ki @Yo Tan Wa @Finalbeta @Edward Teach etc

 

[Owl Ki]

Alright, off the top of my head since I am out and I rarely reread the Wei Fire Dragon Arc as it is my least favorite. Lol.

I would say that Prime Earl Shi would defeat Tou. His hype, skill, feats, fighting style, and choice of weaponry are all going against Tou.

Current Shi (i.e. the one Ouhon turned into a Shi Kebab) has that whole “no will to live” deal going on, which all other Dualists on Shi’s level will capitalise on. He is also 15 years out of practice which will affect his skill and overall ability.

Prime Shi vs Tou = Prime Shi victorious, high diff.

Current Shi vs Tou = Tou victorious, high or extreme diff.

 

[Xione]

Stats: 96 - 96
Experience S - S

Hype - Tou > Earl Shi imo, since Tou is recognized as the general that stands shoulders above the others by the likes of Gouhoumei, his abilities Ouki considered to be on par with his own, and his own personal confident is ridiculous.

Hara has made sure to keep Tou's true strength hidden, during the Coalition arc and during the Wei Dragon arc.

I will give it to Tou high-extreme diff, both in their primes.

As for Spear > Sword, that's only true if you're talking about on horses, and even then it depends on who the sword-wielder is. In a sheer duel, the sword is effectively better than the spear, as it's a weapon specifically designed for dueling.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

As for Spear > Sword, that's only true if you're talking about on horses, and even then it depends on who the sword-wielder is. In a sheer duel, the sword is effectively better than the spear, as it's a weapon specifically designed for dueling.

Historically, the spear is 10/10 times better than the sword. The spear is better up close obviously but the problem is spear users have historically not allowed Sword users to get anywhere near them before killing them.

The first time Ouhon and Yoku fight, Yoku couldn't get anywhere even close to him because Ouhon was pressing him at range with the spear.

Make no mistake, spear >> sword.

This wouldn't make a huge difference with Tou however, who has the experience/skill to work around the weapon disadvantage. Dude went up against a war mace with a sword after all lol.

As for Tou hype > Earl Shi, can't see that tbh. Tou served under a GG for the majority of his career, Shi was a GG and even more so, Shi slayed 3 other GGs lol.

Shi has slayed more GGs than anyone else in the history of Kingdom lol. Only Houken comes close to his record

 

[Xione]

Historically, the spear is 10/10 times better than the sword. The spear is better up close obviously but the problem is spear users have historically not allowed Sword users to get anywhere near them before killing them.

The first time Ouhon and Yoku fight, Yoku couldn't get anywhere even close to him because Ouhon was pressing him at range with the spear.

Make no mistake, spear >> sword.

This wouldn't make a huge difference with Tou however, who has the experience/skill to work around the weapon disadvantage. Dude went up against a war mace with a spear after all lol.

As for Tou hype > Earl Shi, can't see that tbh. Tou served under a GG for the majority of his career, Shi was a GG and even more so, Shi slayed 3 other GGs lol.

Shi has slayed more GGs than anyone else in the history of Kingdom lol. Only Houken comes close to his record

Historically, for dueling Spear is not better than the sword. All/most ancient martial arts since the sword was created when it comes to specifically dueling, specialize in the sword as the main weapon for dueling. It has more area to inflict damage, it provides more mobility, it is more versatile to attack with. Which is also why you have more legendary swords in the real world than you have legendary spears.

The spear historically is a weapon that is easier to make and in an overall war it is better if you equip an army with it, since it provides long range to pick off the enemy and such, not possible with a sword. And the spear, just like the glaive, is a weapon that is one of the best for horse-riding, hence you see spears and glaives or polearms in general for people who ride horses than you see the swords in kingdom. With swords being reserved for the fast/agile/quick ones like Yotanwa, Tou and Kyoukai.

Your example for Ouhon and Yoku was already taken into account when I made my initial reply, it was a battle happening on top of horses, where a spear or any other polearm is effectively better. Which was acknowledged in the initial post. However, that does not equate to it being better in an actual duel where both fighters are on their feet, which I assume is what's happening here.

Kyoukai has served under Shin majority of her career, she would lay to waste Shin, Ouhon, Mouten, Futei, Yoku, and etc. Serving under doesn't take away from Tou's hype, especially when Ouki states his abilities aren't inferior to his own. Him slaying other 3 Wei Dragons, who's fighting prowess is essentially unknown doesn't give him any hype.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Historically, for dueling Spear is not better than the sword. All/most ancient martial arts since the sword was created when it comes to specifically dueling, specialize in the sword as the main weapon for dueling. It has more area to inflict damage, it provides more mobility, it is more versatile to attack with. Which is also why you have more legendary swords in the real world than you have legendary spears

This is wrong.

The sword has existed for longer, that's the reason sword culture is prominent but the spear historically made the sword semi-obsolete.

However, that does not equate to it being better in an actual duel where both fighters are on their feet.

Watch those videos I posted, even on feet, sword users have tremendous trouble bridging the gaps created by the spear.

Kyoukai has served under Shin majority of her career, she would lay to waste Shin, Ouhon, Mouten, Futei, Yoku, and etc. Serving under doesn't take away from Tou's hype, especially when Ouki states his abilities aren't inferior to his own. Him slaying other 3 Wei Dragons, who's fighting prowess is essentially unknown doesn't give him any hype.

Okay time out lol, Kyoukai might be able to slay Mouten but her superiority over current Shin, Ouhon, Yoku, etc is highly questionable, Yoku was fighting on par with Tou 4 years ago...

Him slaying the other Fire Dragons does give him higher hype than Tou, whether you acknowledge it or not lol. Tou's only comparable hype would be if he slayed GGs of equivalent skill but so far as we know, the strongest character he's ever slayed was Rinbukun who was below the GGs.

 

[Xione]

This is wrong.

The sword has existed for longer, that's the reason sword culture is prominent but the spear historically made the sword semi-obsolete.



Watch those videos I posted, even on feet, sword users have tremendous trouble bridging the gaps created by the spear.



Okay time out lol, Kyoukai might be able to slay Mouten but her superiority over current Shin, Ouhon, Yoku, etc is highly questionable, Yoku was fighting on par with Tou 4 years ago...

Him slaying the other Fire Dragons does give him higher hype than Tou, whether you acknowledge it or not lol. Tou's only comparable hype would be if he slayed GGs of equivalent skill but so far as we know, the strongest character he's ever slayed was Rinbukun who was below the GGs.

I've already seen those videos. They try too hard to create various scenarios where the spear could be victorious, they try to do the same for Axes and other such weapons. Where as in reality a skilled swordsman would only really use 1 scenario, which is to deflect and rush in to close the gap, and if that works as a failure then the next would be to grab hold of the spear with the off-hand and slice up the opponent's arm. It's really that easy to takeout a spear in an actual duel. I also, won't comment on the actual skills being displayed in the video for sword & spear.

The sword existed for longer is not true, spears were the basic weapons that ancient humans used for hunting, with predictions going back to 500,000 years. Where as the latest findings of anything that could be considered a sword is less than 3500 years ago. The sword was treated as a rarity even during the roman days, due to how much material it required to build a single sword contrast to building a single spear. And on top of that the sword weren't as good as the spears when it came to actual war, because of the issue of range, hence most infantries from ancient times had spears as the default weapon (something you see in Kingdom as well). In same eras where swords were used prominently for dueling.

As I said I won't comment on the actual skills being displayed or their sloppiness in the video, I would rather recommend you going to martial art exhibitions of some sort in reality, where the martial art focuses on all various weapons.


And nothing about Kyoukai's superiority is in question, until proven otherwise by Ouhon. Yoku or Shin. Yoku during the coalition arc gave Tou a pretty nice challenge. Kyoukai during the bayou arc gave Houken himself a nice challenge, with the only issue being her breath, which has far extended now in addition to her actual growth in skills. If you did want to argue about anybody surpassing her, it would only be the MC, other than Shin nobody will surpass her or be her equal.

Great General =/= Top notch fighting skills. Gokei was nothing impressive as a fighter, regardless he was the Wei's fire dragon and at the time the top Wei General.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

I would say Tou actual strength is still hidden from us fans, i always felt the author has kept him reserved for something and has not let the man Ouki said to be of same strength as him, go all out to his heart content. I also see him as a growing men, who is still progressing and becoming a better General by each day.

But as far as hype goes i will give to Earl Shi, who single handly slained 3 of Wei Fire Dragons. Tou on the other hand have slayed Rinbukun of Chu and was then matched by a new kid of Chu, 5000 men Yoku, which to me felt somewhat dissappointing.

Earl Shi was also later on slayed by Ou hon, when he wasn't self preservant about his own life. Given we have Tou much above Ou hon in terms of Strength, i would overall favour Tou to win this matchup. As for strategies part goes if their armies fought each other, i would have renew my memory on that, so can't comment on that.

Post automatically merged: Sep 11, 2019

I've already seen those videos. They try too hard to create various scenarios where the spear could be victorious, they try to do the same for Axes and other such weapons. Where as in reality a skilled swordsman would only really use 1 scenario, which is to deflect and rush in to close the gap, and if that works as a failure then the next would be to grab hold of the spear with the off-hand and slice up the opponent's arm. It's really that easy to takeout a spear in an actual duel. I also, won't comment on the actual skills being displayed in the video for sword & spear.

The sword existed for longer is not true, spears were the basic weapons that ancient humans used for hunting, with predictions going back to 500,000 years. Where as the latest findings of anything that could be considered a sword is less than 3500 years ago. The sword was treated as a rarity even during the roman days, due to how much material it required to build a single sword contrast to building a single spear. And on top of that the sword weren't as good as the spears when it came to actual war, because of the issue of range, hence most infantries from ancient times had spears as the default weapon (something you see in Kingdom as well). In same eras where swords were used prominently for dueling.

As I said I won't comment on the actual skills being displayed or their sloppiness in the video, I would rather recommend you going to martial art exhibitions of some sort in reality, where the martial art focuses on all various weapons.


And nothing about Kyoukai's superiority is in question, until proven otherwise by Ouhon. Yoku or Shin. Yoku during the coalition arc gave Tou a pretty nice challenge. Kyoukai during the bayou arc gave Houken himself a nice challenge, with the only issue being her breath, which has far extended now in addition to her actual growth in skills. If you did want to argue about anybody surpassing her, it would only be the MC, other than Shin nobody will surpass her or be her equal.

Great General =/= Top notch fighting skills. Gokei was nothing impressive as a fighter, regardless he was the Wei's fire dragon and at the time the top Wei General.

I certainly don't think Kyou kai would be absolutely disadvantage against Shin or Ou hon bt they recently had much more growth in comparison during the last few battles. So i think you are overestimating Kyou kai here a lot, especially if you place her against Shin, Mou ten, Ou hon or Yoku(who are promised to rise to the Top) or strong Generals. Kyou kai still have so much more to learn and is yet to slay big names, is rather shown better to slay more numbers. Kyou kai is yes fast bt lacks strength kinda like Fu tei.

 

[Xione]

I certainly don't think Kyou kai would be absolutely disadvantage against Shin or Ou hon bt they recently had much more growth in comparison during the last few battles. So i think you are overestimating Kyou kai here a lot, especially if you place her against Shin, Mou ten, Ou hon or Yoku(who are promised to rise to the Top) or strong Generals. Kyou kai still have so much more to learn and is yet to slay big names, is rather shown better to slay more numbers. Kyou kai is yes fast bt lacks strength kinda like Fu tei.

You're forgetting that Kyoukai herself also grew in strength during this war. She's pushed herself to the limit twice during this very arc as well, so it's not as if she's remained stale and has made no gains. They all had about the same growth, aside from Shin who might've gotten more growth than the rest with the experience of strategist against Gyou'un this war.

Kyoukai back at Bayou Arc was already as strong as the top generals (not the ones on the level of Moubu/Houken and such, but the ones inferior to them). Kyoukai's base combat stat right now is 96, same as Tou. You add on her boost, she goes above even Houken's 100 for the short duration. I think yourself and the others are underestimating Kyoukai, because she's never gotten a huge highlighted fight aside from the Houken one & and then the one against the Shiyuu. But if she were to be put in every combat situation Shin or Ouhon or Koku or Mouten or Futei have been put into, Kyoukai would achieve better results.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

And nothing about Kyoukai's superiority is in question, until proven otherwise by Ouhon. Yoku or Shin. Yoku during the coalition arc gave Tou a pretty nice challenge. Kyoukai during the bayou arc gave Houken himself a nice challenge, with the only issue being her breath, which has far extended now in addition to her actual growth in skills. If you did want to argue about anybody surpassing her, it would only be the MC, other than Shin nobody will surpass her or be her equal.

Kyoukai gave Houken trouble but she ultimately got overwhelmed by him.

Yoku fought Tou as a complete equal and never got overwhelmed. Not a fair comparison.

Ouhon and Mouten have both been > Shin in ability since they were introduced, not sure why only Shin will surpass Kyoukai when I doubt he’ll ever truly surpass the other two tbh. Maybe in achievements but not actual ability.

Great General =/= Top notch fighting skills. Gokei was nothing impressive as a fighter, regardless he was the Wei's fire dragon and at the time the top Wei General.

You could’ve picked much better examples than Gokei Who was actually a strong fighter lol.

Regardless, for someone like Earl Shi who has literally no ability hyped outside of his fighting prowess, the fact that he was a purely martial GG is monstrously impressive, as opposed to Tou who was hyped as both a fighter and a tactician.

Not only was the Earl hyped as a purely martial General, but with nothing but his martial ability hyped, he still killed the 3 of the biggest heavyweights you can possibly slay in Kingdom. Tou has only slayed Rinbukun.

 

[Xione]

Kyoukai gave Houken trouble but she ultimately got overwhelmed by him.

Yoku fought Tou as a complete equal and never got overwhelmed. Not a fair comparison.

Ouhon and Mouten have both been > Shin in ability since they were introduced, not sure why only Shin will surpass Kyoukai when I doubt he’ll ever truly surpass the other two tbh. Maybe in achievements but not actual ability.



You could’ve picked much better examples than Gokei Who was actually a strong fighter lol.

Regardless, for someone like Earl Shi who has literally no ability hyped outside of his fighting prowess, the fact that he was a purely martial GG is monstrously impressive, as opposed to Tou who was hyped as both a fighter and a tactician.

Not only was the Earl hyped as a purely martial General, but with nothing but his martial ability hyped, he still killed the 3 of the biggest heavyweights you can possibly slay in Kingdom. Tou has only slayed Rinbukun.

Well right if we're getting into the details, then not really the same. Houken was solely focused on Kyoukai. Where as Yoku vs Tou was an exchange where it kept getting interfered and such. Yoku also failed to land any hit on Tou, who slashed up Yoku a bit. And of course the huge gap between Tou and Houken ofc.

Mouten & Ouhon were > Shin in combat, but not anymore. Ouhon before Zhao arc was at 93, Shin was at 91 with in-combat boost pushing him to 94+, so in a full on all-out fight Shin would beat Ouhon. For Mouten, shin doesn't even need the boost. Shin also has had the biggest growth out of all of them, including Kyoukai. Taking into account he's never had actual formal training until recently where he's able to spar with Kyoukai. Then you throw in this arc, where Shin has pushed himself much more than Ouhon has on a day to day basis, and even now will have a growth moment with either Riboku or Houken possibly. If you mean overall as commanders, then yea he's pretty lacking probably will take a arc or two more before he can surpass them. Kyoukai herself has also pushed herself on a day to day basis as much as or more than Ouhon and Mouten, so naturally you'd expect a growth similar to Ouhon or Mouten.

Shin is the only one, because his growth rate and peak is higher than anybody else's not named Kyoukai. And his goal is to be the strongest (so will be surpassing Moubu as well) & the greatest general.


Ahaha I see what you mean, but Gokei wasn't even strong as Rokuomi from Ouki's army, so when I said not really an impressive fighter, i'm using the top folks who are 90+ as the standard.


See now that's not exactly fair, we have next to no information on Tou's achievements under Ouki. And Tou being hyped up as both a fighter and a tactician is what makes him Qin's "perfect general". Plus, to me the hype Ouki gave him is superior to him slaying 3 unknown GGs.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Well right if we're getting into the details, then not really the same. Houken was solely focused on Kyoukai. Where as Yoku vs Tou was an exchange where it kept getting interfered and such. Yoku also failed to land any hit on Tou, who slashed up Yoku a bit. And of course the huge gap between Tou and Houken ofc.

Mouten & Ouhon were > Shin in combat, but not anymore. Ouhon before Zhao arc was at 93, Shin was at 91 with in-combat boost pushing him to 94+, so in a full on all-out fight Shin would beat Ouhon. For Mouten, shin doesn't even need the boost. Shin also has had the biggest growth out of all of them, including Kyoukai. Taking into account he's never had actual formal training until recently where he's able to spar with Kyoukai. Then you throw in this arc, where Shin has pushed himself much more than Ouhon has on a day to day basis, and even now will have a growth moment with either Riboku or Houken possibly. If you mean overall as commanders, then yea he's pretty lacking probably will take a arc or two more before he can surpass them. Kyoukai herself has also pushed herself on a day to day basis as much as or more than Ouhon and Mouten, so naturally you'd expect a growth similar to Ouhon or Mouten.

Shin is the only one, because his growth rate and peak is higher than anybody else's not named Kyoukai. And his goal is to be the strongest (so will be surpassing Moubu as well) & the greatest general.


Ahaha I see what you mean, but Gokei wasn't even strong as Rokuomi from Ouki's army, so when I said not really an impressive fighter, i'm using the top folks who are 90+ as the standard.


See now that's not exactly fair, we have next to no information on Tou's achievements under Ouki. And Tou being hyped up as both a fighter and a tactician is what makes him Qin's "perfect general". Plus, to me the hype Ouki gave him is superior to him slaying 3 unknown GGs.

I disregard stats entirely, there are too many inconsistencies lol.

Mouten and Ouhon are both > Shin tactically and Ouhon is > him martially. Current Shin has pulled off strength feats that Kyoukai cannot (smashing through CGR’s Sifting sands). Not saying Shin would beat her or anything, but the gap that used to exist between them is closing fast.

As for Tou, there aren’t that many GGs he could’ve possibly slain lol, at best if we assume he slayed both the 3rd Great Heaven and Gakuki (I highly, highly, highly doubt he slayed either), he’s still slayed less GGs than the Earl.

I don’t think Tou’s martial ability is going to be hyped any harder than it already was. Tou > Rinbukun > Kaishibou/Bananji/Akou by feats and hype. There’s no need to expand on his martial ability any harder than that.

Meanwhile, the Earl
1. Is one of the strongest GGs in the history of Wei and its greatest spear weilder ever
2. Is ONLY known for his monstrous martial prowess while Tou has both martial and tactical talent
3. Has slain more GGs than it’s literally possible for Tou to have slain over his career.

If you want to argue Tou will capitalize on the Earl’s non-will to live anymore, that’s one thing. But I think it’s indisputable that Prime Earl Shi is one of the absolute strongest generals in Kingdom history, stronger than Tou.

 

[BossYimz]

Going by feats earl Shi.
Going by hype, Tou. Ouki who was regardedas the best said Tou's fighting ability was not inferior to his.

 

[Xione]

I disregard stats entirely, there are too many inconsistencies lol.

Mouten and Ouhon are both > Shin tactically and Ouhon is > him martially. Current Shin has pulled off strength feats that Kyoukai cannot (smashing through CGR’s Sifting sands). Not saying Shin would beat her or anything, but the gap that used to exist between them is closing fast.

As for Tou, there aren’t that many GGs he could’ve possibly slain lol, at best if we assume he slayed both the 3rd Great Heaven and Gakuki (I highly, highly, highly doubt he slayed either), he’s still slayed less GGs than the Earl.

I don’t think Tou’s martial ability is going to be hyped any harder than it already was. Tou > Rinbukun > Kaishibou/Bananji/Akou by feats and hype. There’s no need to expand on his martial ability any harder than that.

Meanwhile, the Earl
1. Is one of the strongest GGs in the history of Wei and its greatest spear weilder ever
2. Is ONLY known for his monstrous martial prowess while Tou has both martial and tactical talent
3. Has slain more GGs than it’s literally possible for Tou to have slain over his career.

If you want to argue Tou will capitalize on the Earl’s non-will to live anymore, that’s one thing. But I think it’s indisputable that Prime Earl Shi is one of the absolute strongest generals in Kingdom history, stronger than Tou.

Not really I think. If you mean things such as Ouki (98) beating Houken (100), then that's actually related to another stat of experience, in manga relating to the whole "strength of 100, will of a 100, etc" which bring a load on the persons' shoulder. But other than that, they're fairly reliable imo. But there might be few other inconsistencies, but for the main characters they're fairly reliable since they're capturing their progress.


I agree tactically, I don't agree or disagree on the martially and here's why. Shin when pushed to the extreme is stronger than Ouhon pushed to the extreme (thanks to the alpha boost), but in general Ouhon is the superior fighter. And I would disagree with that, I think you're forgetting that it was Kyoukai who then got Shin and co out of CGR's defensive formation with sheer strength and going all out. If she were the one leading, she could break through that as well. Just she'd be cutting them into pieces, rather than throwing their bodies in the air like shin lol. I agree, the gap is closing tho.


Yea but GG doesn't really equate to top fighter, there are Great Generals who don't possess the combat strength that high like gokei for example or some of the other fire dragons like Rei' Ou


I think it is when Tou actually goes all out. Whether it will be used as hype tool for another younger commander of another country or something, would remain to be seen. But Tou going all out in combat is still something that's not been showed so far. Heck, his main hype as the general that stands above the rest in Qin came after the Coalition Arc, where his last combat feat was.


Tou:
- Abilities on par with Ouki, the strongest of the Qin 6

Earl:
- Inferior to Gaimou, who was inferior to Ouki


Tou being hyped in martial prowess & tactics, just means Tou is a superior general.
Earl slaying more GGs, the ones from his own country, just means he's slayed more generals. This doesn't really mean much, when he was inferior to the guy on his side, Gaimou, during the rebellion.

 

[Finalbeta]

Are they prime? Then Earl otherwise I dunno

 

[Blackbeard]

Tou. the man's still hiding his true strength. after the Zhao arc, Hara will almost definitely give him or Moubu the second campaign, in which we will see his true potential.

 

[Desolate Smaug]

The Wei GG takes this if we are considering the at their prime. Tou though can probably defeat him in a war. He is a much better-balanced general just like Ou Ki.

And Yes Spear>sword. Even a glaive is better than a sword. The range the two provides is not something can be underestimated.

Post automatically merged: Sep 13, 2019

Tou. the man's still hiding his true strength. after the Zhao arc, Hara will almost definitely give him or Moubu the second campaign, in which we will see his true potential.

Yea Tou is a much better general than Shi but in a straight-up duel Shi probably takes it. He has the feats of killing three other GG.
Here is a list of other Generals who have killed GGs. The ones that we know anyway.
1. Houken (4)
2. Mou Bu (1)
3. Ou Hon (dude is an elite company) (1)
4. Duke Hyou (1)
4. Heki

Shi belongs to an elite class of dualist.

 

[Blackbeard]

He did kill three GGs but we have no clue how powerful they were compared to the other Wei Great Generals. The Wei 7 Dragons vary in physical power as well, from Rei Ou who was killed in one strike to Gaimou.


Also we should refer to what Rinbunkun said :

Tou killing only a Chu General without even going all out is actually a great feat since Chu's population dwarfs every single state. killing a GG is good portrayal depending on which GG we are talking about. Great General Gekishin was cut in half by one armed Houken like a random Qin soldier, meanwhile General Tou is stated to be extremly close to Ouki's strength.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

He did kill three GGs but we have no clue how powerful they were compared to the other Wei Great Generals. The Wei 7 Dragons vary in physical power as well, from Rei Ou who was killed in one strike to Gaimou.


Also we should refer to what Rinbunkun said :

Tou killing only a Chu General without even going all out is actually a great feat since Chu's population dwarfs every single state. killing a GG is good portrayal depending on which GG we are talking about. Great General Gekishin was cut in half by one armed Houken like a random Qin soldier, meanwhile General Tou is stated to be extremly close to Ouki's strength.

And yet, if we go by sheer hype, Rinbukun is not on the level of any of the GGs that Shi slayed. He’s close, perhaps very close but there is still a difference between Rinbukun and a real GG. Real GGs Who Shi himself slayed.

No one should downplay Rinbukun, but acting like he’s on the same level as the same generals Shi slayed for no other reason than just “we don’t know” is a fallacy.

 

[Blackbeard]

And yet, if we go by sheer hype, Rinbukun is not on the level of any of the GGs that Shi slayed. He’s close, perhaps very close but there is still a difference between Rinbukun and a real GG. Real GGs Who Shi himself slayed.

No one should downplay Rinbukun, but acting like he’s on the same level as the same generals Shi slayed for no other reason than just “we don’t know” is a fallacy.

You missed my point, it has nothing to do with Rinbunkun being above the Wei GGs, that was a pure example to how Tou's strength is unknown yet.

The main point is, saying Earl Shi is superior in combat because he killed three Wei GGs and Tou didn't kill any great general during his time is the fallacy since we know the 7 Wei Dragons vary in power drastically from the pure strategical Great General Rei Ou who was killed with one hit from Shin to Gaimou who could easily keep up with him. how can we determine whether the 3 generals killed by Earl Shi were pure strategical like Great General Gouhoumei and Rei Ou or physically powerful, and if it's the latter, are we just going to scale them to Tou's combat strength without seeing them in combat ?