Roger had 3 and his ship went to laugh tale while they were singing along the way. I don't understand what makes you think WB was referring to coc users and that there's an arbitrary limit. Not only did he accept Oden, he forced Ace to join his crew without ever bringing up that complaint. If Oden was still on the ship, you think he'd go "Nope, sorry Ace. I already got my 1 extra coc user on my crew"?
General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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- Tags #carrot4prison #furries4carrot #larrot #yamato4nakama #yamatofansunite #yamatoisnakama carrot blows cry about carrot furries for nakama furries scurries i need my support carrot body pillow oni princess and the pirate king this thread stupid we're here for jew vs dizzy who wants rabbit stew yamato > carrot yamato best girl yamato finds the one piece yamato hype yamato is the last crew mate
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Yamato does not want to join the crew because of Ace. But (and this is technique) Luffy is Ace brother. Nowhere in the story it is said that Yamato wants to join the crew as an "hommage" or as "for ace".. like Jinbe.. nah. Yamato clearly said.. "as Ace brother, you SHOULD be giving me a ride a your ship" Meaning that Yamato consider that because she was friend with Ace, Luffy should naturally accept her..
It's that premisse that is corrupted, you don't get on the ship of someone because of simple relationship, who need to actually earn you place in the eyes of the captain. (that's all the point of Oden's voyage in fact, Oden had to be accepted, just wanting to go wasn't enough)
Although there is the fact that just stating to someone that he should do something in a clear indicator that this won't happen. One Piece always give promisse that are not fulfilled.
It's that premisse that is corrupted, you don't get on the ship of someone because of simple relationship, who need to actually earn you place in the eyes of the captain. (that's all the point of Oden's voyage in fact, Oden had to be accepted, just wanting to go wasn't enough)
Although there is the fact that just stating to someone that he should do something in a clear indicator that this won't happen. One Piece always give promisse that are not fulfilled.
Eh, really? Poor WB... Can't handle more than 2... I think that could be a "hint" for a reason why Xebec and later the Yonkos failed to dominate... They are afraid of handling "kings", in short, they can't be "king of kings"...
To be fair, even Kaido is that allergic to CoC users... No wonder they can't lead the way...
To be fair, even Kaido is that allergic to CoC users... No wonder they can't lead the way...
No you get that wrong. My point is not that Yamato didn't care of who Luffy was. She cares. My point is that she cares for the WRONG reasons. You can check this back to the story, each mugiwara are following Luffy for his actions, not his words. This is a constant in One Piece.
Yamato may have heard Luffy's thinking, but it's not enough. Yamato (to becomes a strawhat) needs to be changed by Luffy on a foundamental level during the her present story. That might happen once Kaido is beaten, but that's not a certitude.
Yamato (right now) is like a fan of a good actor who is saying to the actor "you should work with me as I knew a member of your family" - You can't just go see a personn and I say that, and expect to be welcomed. Life just doesn't work that way. Tat's why this sentances are false promises.
Impressed her, not changed her complete mindset.
Yamato may have heard Luffy's thinking, but it's not enough. Yamato (to becomes a strawhat) needs to be changed by Luffy on a foundamental level during the her present story. That might happen once Kaido is beaten, but that's not a certitude.
Yamato (right now) is like a fan of a good actor who is saying to the actor "you should work with me as I knew a member of your family" - You can't just go see a personn and I say that, and expect to be welcomed. Life just doesn't work that way. Tat's why this sentances are false promises.
Impressed her, not changed her complete mindset.
Luffy is very selfish. He cared about Ace and cares about his devil fruit for example. But Ace wishes are not his own. (Plus Yamato being part of Luffy's crew was never Ace wishes). Luffy cares about the wishes of Luffy. That's one of the reason he made it so far.
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Yup in term of narration, Carrot biggest challenge will be the sea, not Perospero.
Luffy tends to change the mindset of the protagonists by his actions. But it's the protagonist themself that do the real work. That how it has always been on One Piece.
He did it also for all the strawhat and.. they are here now.. What's your point ?
CORRECTION
Luffy defeated the CP9 for Robin, not Franky. Franky freed himself from the CP9. And it's VERY debatable that the CP9 were really Franky's main nemesis. Of course they wanted him dead, but it's not enough on a narrative level.
Plus if you REALLY want to play that game. Luffy indirectly saved the mink from Jack so .. yeah..
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If this isnt the biggest load of BS I've heard all day
..danger of the seas..
..danger of the seas..
Luffy changes alot of characters lives the problem is how to differentiate it from a side character and a strawhat.
so now all luffy has to do is get a person out of their "comfort zone" to be enough of a personal conflict to join the crew?
so now all luffy has to do is get a person out of their "comfort zone" to be enough of a personal conflict to join the crew?
He did it also for all the strawhat and.. they are here now.. What's your point ?
When it comes to crewmates..like I and many others have said...
*Luffy had to defeat axe hand morgan and helmeppo for Zoro
*Luffy had to defeat arlong for nami
*Luffy had to defeat Kuro for Usopp
*Luffy had to defeat Kreig for Sanji
*Luffy had to defeat wapol for chopper
*Luffy had to defeat croco-boy and cp9 for Robin
*Luffy had to defeat Cp9 for franky
*Luffy had to defeat Moria for brook
*Luffy had to defeat Arlong and Hody for jinbe
.....
Luffy had to defeat. no..wait...
*Nekomamushi had to defeat perospero for carrot?
and perosperro isn't even a MAIN antagonist..
Luffy defeats MAIN arc villians for his crewmates so please stop with that "enemy of the seas" Bullcrap.
*Luffy had to defeat axe hand morgan and helmeppo for Zoro
*Luffy had to defeat arlong for nami
*Luffy had to defeat Kuro for Usopp
*Luffy had to defeat Kreig for Sanji
*Luffy had to defeat wapol for chopper
*Luffy had to defeat croco-boy and cp9 for Robin
*Luffy had to defeat Cp9 for franky
*Luffy had to defeat Moria for brook
*Luffy had to defeat Arlong and Hody for jinbe
.....
Luffy had to defeat. no..wait...
*Nekomamushi had to defeat perospero for carrot?
and perosperro isn't even a MAIN antagonist..
Luffy defeats MAIN arc villians for his crewmates so please stop with that "enemy of the seas" Bullcrap.
Luffy defeated the CP9 for Robin, not Franky. Franky freed himself from the CP9. And it's VERY debatable that the CP9 were really Franky's main nemesis. Of course they wanted him dead, but it's not enough on a narrative level.
Plus if you REALLY want to play that game. Luffy indirectly saved the mink from Jack so .. yeah..
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So can anyone explain why Oda would have her say this without saying its meant to be a red herring? Given that Oda knows fully well that his intended audience of 13 year olds would see this as her joining the crew.
On top of that, Shonen Jump is willing to officially promote this panel on the vol 101 poster that was approved by the editorial.
On top of that, Shonen Jump is willing to officially promote this panel on the vol 101 poster that was approved by the editorial.
Edit: I forgot to specify. Anyone but C4N?
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Because the 13 years old of today are not the 13 years old of yersteday.
Yersteday, to access media, you had at best DVDs..
Today. You have everything. Which means that today, 13 years old individual are MUCH MORE educated to the medias and stories that we were at their time.
It's logical, to adapt to this audiance. Trust me, Oda made a lot of bolder move in his story that just this fake out. You can recall for example two twist of that nature:
- Raizo is safe
- The samourai time travelled.
The Raizo is safe twist is so well crafted that even someone with high litterature education will be fooled
Oda loves to mastermind his audiance, that's one of the qualities of his writing, he doesn't take his audience lightly
Yersteday, to access media, you had at best DVDs..
Today. You have everything. Which means that today, 13 years old individual are MUCH MORE educated to the medias and stories that we were at their time.
It's logical, to adapt to this audiance. Trust me, Oda made a lot of bolder move in his story that just this fake out. You can recall for example two twist of that nature:
- Raizo is safe
- The samourai time travelled.
The Raizo is safe twist is so well crafted that even someone with high litterature education will be fooled
Oda loves to mastermind his audiance, that's one of the qualities of his writing, he doesn't take his audience lightly
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That's not exactly what I meant. The connection with Ace is why Luffy would accept her (or at least part of the reason). The reason she wants to join is because Ace convinced her that Luffy is amazing. She cried when she heard his dream and followed his journey since he set out, hence why she can recite the strawhats' names, epithets, and bounties. Luffy also freed her from the physical chains keeping her captive by breaking her cuffs, and he's about to free her from the emotional chains keeping her captive by ousting Kaido from Wano. All of this is far more reason to want to join than most of the strawhats.
For someone who claims to analyze One Piece in order to recreate it, you sure don't understand the main character at all. If you really believe he only cares about his own wishes, you're reading a different story.
This right here is why nobody takes you seriously. First "Robin was a side character in Alabasta" and now this. You say you analyze One Piece, but it really seems like you only analyze Whole Cake Island, because you don't appear to remember the plot of the other arcs. Spandam framed Tom using Franky's own creations and then executed him. There was a whole big flashback, remember? Luffy may have taken down Lucci and Spandam for Robin and not Franky, but he didn't take down Krieg for Sanji or Hody for Jinbei either. The fact remains that he defeated their villain. Also Luffy wasn't even present when the Minks were saved. This is disingenuous and you know it.
For someone who claims to analyze One Piece in order to recreate it, you sure don't understand the main character at all. If you really believe he only cares about his own wishes, you're reading a different story.
This right here is why nobody takes you seriously. First "Robin was a side character in Alabasta" and now this. You say you analyze One Piece, but it really seems like you only analyze Whole Cake Island, because you don't appear to remember the plot of the other arcs. Spandam framed Tom using Franky's own creations and then executed him. There was a whole big flashback, remember? Luffy may have taken down Lucci and Spandam for Robin and not Franky, but he didn't take down Krieg for Sanji or Hody for Jinbei either. The fact remains that he defeated their villain. Also Luffy wasn't even present when the Minks were saved. This is disingenuous and you know it.
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I agree with the second part of this, not the first part. Still to this day and EVEN if Yamato was impressed by Luffy, we don't have the narrative confirmation that Yamato wants to follow Luffy because of the impression he gave to her. And even then, impression by words in One Piece, is not enough. A character that join the strawhat Yamato or Carrot included, needs - to be consider a nakama - be SO impressed by Luffy that their mind must shift to the point they are willing to fight for him alone.
We don't have that for Yamato right now (we don't even have that for Carrot in fact)
Don't start to be like that, you are the only one that I respect, don't change that.
Luffy IS selfish, this is acted by the narration and not debatable. And he only cared about others desires when they are in alignment with his own. What Luffy cares for is his friends and only his friends wishes. Yamato is not a friend.. yet.
Wrong, and you can start being toxic about it, it won't change anything.
Narratively, and I really mean narratively, Spandam is the antagonist related to Robin AND Tom.. not Franky.
Same for Jinbe. Hody was not his antagonist, the antagonist of Jinbe is the world gouvernment, it has never been hody. Hody is the antagonist of Shiraoshi not Jinbe.
And again, same for Sanji. Krieg was not Sanji's antagonist, it was Gin.
It's very important to make these distinctions in term of narration, as the values put on the field are not the same.
Krieg, Spandam, Hody are only the main antagonists of those arc, not per say the antagonist of said strawhat.
Little example: who do you think is Sanji's real antagonist in Whole Cake ? Katakuri ? Big Mom ? The germa ? Luffy ? Pudding ? Himself ?
Noo.. the real antagonist of Sanji in that arc is Judge and only him. Because of the value put in conflict.
It's even clearer in Wano. Different characters, different antagonist. Not only Kaido:
Hiyori is bound to Oroshi
Momo is bound to Kaido
Other example, I'm sure you think that Brook's antagonist was Moria ? Well.. wrong, it was narratively the Zombie of Ryuma. Because - again - of the different values put in conflict.
So trust me when I say that Robin was mainly bound to spandam and not really Franky.
In fact, I also say that because there are reasons to believe Franky will have a real antagonist in the future.
When we look at One Piece, it's easy to say that each strawhat had all their conflict resolved by Luffy and their main antagonist beaten by Luffy... but when we look very closely to what the story says... it's not that clear.
So..
I understand that what I say is not really something you and others are used to read about One Piece. But this is what a glimps of a real analysis of the narration of One Piece looks like. Of course I could dive into the details of those.. but it would be a bit too long and I'm lazy.
So please.. refrain from calling me a clown like the others, you have the potential to understand what I'm actually talking about and if you don't.. well .. I will have no choice but to scrap the respect I have for you.
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Funny.. if Oda were to make such an announcement.. (of course it would be in a different form like: "Yamato will soon join a group and find her true purpose") I would actually take that as a confirmation that Yamato will stay in Wano xD
We don't have that for Yamato right now (we don't even have that for Carrot in fact)
Don't start to be like that, you are the only one that I respect, don't change that.
Luffy IS selfish, this is acted by the narration and not debatable. And he only cared about others desires when they are in alignment with his own. What Luffy cares for is his friends and only his friends wishes. Yamato is not a friend.. yet.
Wrong, and you can start being toxic about it, it won't change anything.
Narratively, and I really mean narratively, Spandam is the antagonist related to Robin AND Tom.. not Franky.
Same for Jinbe. Hody was not his antagonist, the antagonist of Jinbe is the world gouvernment, it has never been hody. Hody is the antagonist of Shiraoshi not Jinbe.
And again, same for Sanji. Krieg was not Sanji's antagonist, it was Gin.
It's very important to make these distinctions in term of narration, as the values put on the field are not the same.
Krieg, Spandam, Hody are only the main antagonists of those arc, not per say the antagonist of said strawhat.
Little example: who do you think is Sanji's real antagonist in Whole Cake ? Katakuri ? Big Mom ? The germa ? Luffy ? Pudding ? Himself ?
Noo.. the real antagonist of Sanji in that arc is Judge and only him. Because of the value put in conflict.
It's even clearer in Wano. Different characters, different antagonist. Not only Kaido:
Hiyori is bound to Oroshi
Momo is bound to Kaido
Other example, I'm sure you think that Brook's antagonist was Moria ? Well.. wrong, it was narratively the Zombie of Ryuma. Because - again - of the different values put in conflict.
So trust me when I say that Robin was mainly bound to spandam and not really Franky.
In fact, I also say that because there are reasons to believe Franky will have a real antagonist in the future.
When we look at One Piece, it's easy to say that each strawhat had all their conflict resolved by Luffy and their main antagonist beaten by Luffy... but when we look very closely to what the story says... it's not that clear.
So..
I understand that what I say is not really something you and others are used to read about One Piece. But this is what a glimps of a real analysis of the narration of One Piece looks like. Of course I could dive into the details of those.. but it would be a bit too long and I'm lazy.
So please.. refrain from calling me a clown like the others, you have the potential to understand what I'm actually talking about and if you don't.. well .. I will have no choice but to scrap the respect I have for you.
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Funny.. if Oda were to make such an announcement.. (of course it would be in a different form like: "Yamato will soon join a group and find her true purpose") I would actually take that as a confirmation that Yamato will stay in Wano xD
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In a story, characters are advancing in a story mostly because of their weaknesses.
For example, if you create the story about a sexist man and want to make it believable, you will use this precise defaut as a way to construct your story around it.. with the help of a good narration and antagonist showing the same problems, you will create a story about the importance of not being sexist. (and If you ask, this is what the movie Tootsie is all about).
Luffy being selfish is the reason, the main reason why he and his friends will be bombarded by dangerous, strange and wonderful experience. The main example of Luffy's selfishness happens - in fact - in Sabaody.
Luffy punching that tenryubito is the pure representation of a selfish wish transformed into narrative insentive..
So of course, Luffy is constructed as a pure hero and Oda is a smarty, so every wish Luffy makes are seen as logical and even encouraged by the readers, and Oda don't put the same value on the word "selfishness" that we do.. but they are still.. selfish wishes.
And those are not my word. Those are the words of Luffy's own Nakama.
The selfishness of Luffy, is behind the core of Luffy's dream. One Piece is the story of a selfish acting character, who beyond any rationnal reason is actually making the world a better place.
That the precise reason why Luffy does not see himself as the hero but a pirate.
I don't know if my words will change the way you see the story, but trust me, just take a little look back everytime Luffy decided to recrute someone..
Nah, don't trust me.. Just go read the first interaction between Luffy and Sanji...
And you will understand how Oda really crafted his hero.
In a story, characters are advancing in a story mostly because of their weaknesses.
For example, if you create the story about a sexist man and want to make it believable, you will use this precise defaut as a way to construct your story around it.. with the help of a good narration and antagonist showing the same problems, you will create a story about the importance of not being sexist. (and If you ask, this is what the movie Tootsie is all about).
Luffy being selfish is the reason, the main reason why he and his friends will be bombarded by dangerous, strange and wonderful experience. The main example of Luffy's selfishness happens - in fact - in Sabaody.
Luffy punching that tenryubito is the pure representation of a selfish wish transformed into narrative insentive..
So of course, Luffy is constructed as a pure hero and Oda is a smarty, so every wish Luffy makes are seen as logical and even encouraged by the readers, and Oda don't put the same value on the word "selfishness" that we do.. but they are still.. selfish wishes.
And those are not my word. Those are the words of Luffy's own Nakama.
The selfishness of Luffy, is behind the core of Luffy's dream. One Piece is the story of a selfish acting character, who beyond any rationnal reason is actually making the world a better place.
That the precise reason why Luffy does not see himself as the hero but a pirate.
I don't know if my words will change the way you see the story, but trust, just take a little look back everytime Luffy decided to recrute someone..
Nah, don't trust me.. Just go read the first interaction between Luffy and Sanji...
And you will understand how Oda really crafted his hero.
For example, if you create the story about a sexist man and want to make it believable, you will use this precise defaut as a way to construct your story around it.. with the help of a good narration and antagonist showing the same problems, you will create a story about the importance of not being sexist. (and If you ask, this is what the movie Tootsie is all about).
Luffy being selfish is the reason, the main reason why he and his friends will be bombarded by dangerous, strange and wonderful experience. The main example of Luffy's selfishness happens - in fact - in Sabaody.
Luffy punching that tenryubito is the pure representation of a selfish wish transformed into narrative insentive..
So of course, Luffy is constructed as a pure hero and Oda is a smarty, so every wish Luffy makes are seen as logical and even encouraged by the readers, and Oda don't put the same value on the word "selfishness" that we do.. but they are still.. selfish wishes.
And those are not my word. Those are the words of Luffy's own Nakama.
The selfishness of Luffy, is behind the core of Luffy's dream. One Piece is the story of a selfish acting character, who beyond any rationnal reason is actually making the world a better place.
That the precise reason why Luffy does not see himself as the hero but a pirate.
I don't know if my words will change the way you see the story, but trust, just take a little look back everytime Luffy decided to recrute someone..
Nah, don't trust me.. Just go read the first interaction between Luffy and Sanji...
And you will understand how Oda really crafted his hero.
Why would Luffy puts the life of Marguerite before his Friends. The same friends who performed, as you say, shining nakama actions for him?
Or when he fought Lovoon and destroyed his own ship?
Or when he accepted Vivi on board?
There are other examples, but we can start from these. Then I would address the goalposts that you moved, but the strawhats tagged along because all of their dreams align with Luffy's.
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If Luffy he is selfish, he doesn't give a damn about what others do for him.
Then why is a "Shining Nakama Action" needed to join the crew?
Stop dodging..we arnt talking about what her biggest challenge will be. we are talking about what MAIN Villian has luffy personally defeated for carrot before she joins?
ALL the strawhats have this carrot does not.
you completely missed the point...changing the mindset of any character IS NOT ENOUGH...or we would have hundreds of strawhats by now Including shirahoshi...whom he change WAY more deeply than carrot
there are SPECIFIC things that differentiate all those side characters from main strawhats...one of them being, Luffy DIRECTLY deafeating the crewmembers‘ antagonist.
all strawhats have this..carrot does not.
did you just skip frankys whole flashback? Lol
what spandam did to tom?
Nope luffy wasnt there.
ALL the strawhats have this carrot does not.
you completely missed the point...changing the mindset of any character IS NOT ENOUGH...or we would have hundreds of strawhats by now Including shirahoshi...whom he change WAY more deeply than carrot
there are SPECIFIC things that differentiate all those side characters from main strawhats...one of them being, Luffy DIRECTLY deafeating the crewmembers‘ antagonist.
all strawhats have this..carrot does not.
did you just skip frankys whole flashback? Lol
what spandam did to tom?
Nope luffy wasnt there.
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I think we don't have the same name for the characters lol.
Anyway.. No goal post have been move, don't search for a reason to bash me when there are none.
Luffy is as selfish is those situation you are mentionning that in the others I mentionned. That's the core of his character (but I guess you didn't read what I just said, too bad, I'm actually proud of that post)
Luffy IS selfish, this is not something you can argue with, it's part of the core of his characterization. Again, read what I wrote.
The Shining Nakama action are not requested by Luffy lmao, they are requested by the story itself. Without those actions, the protagonists don't have the same impact on the story. I think you have missunderstand quite a few thing that I have explain.. maybe it's my fault, I'm very brief in my explanations.
Basically when I say "those storytelling trick are necessary to the story" I don't mean that characters wants them, I mean that without those "tricks" the story doesn't have the same impact and/or doesn't work.
Also, very important thing and one of the reasons why I think the character of Luffy is so impactfull:
Luffy might be selfish, what he really is, is very empathic. Those two "qualities" don't enter in contradiction.
That's why you can see Luffy understanding the core problem of Laboon and why you see them fight together.. while having the math completely destroyed.
On one hand, Luffy will be very understanding, on the other, he will only help you if he wants to.
That's is why Luffy can smash so much reason in certain characters.. and be so "interventionnist"
Another example of that is what Luffy do with Rebecca. Only because the situation with Kyros and Rebecca was not of his liking (at the end of the arc).. Luffy went all the way to rebecca's castle to capture her in order to put her in front of Kyros.
That's the beauty of the future King of the Pirate.. Luffy wants complete freedom, he doesn't want to rule anything.
Anyway.. No goal post have been move, don't search for a reason to bash me when there are none.
Luffy is as selfish is those situation you are mentionning that in the others I mentionned. That's the core of his character (but I guess you didn't read what I just said, too bad, I'm actually proud of that post)
Luffy IS selfish, this is not something you can argue with, it's part of the core of his characterization. Again, read what I wrote.
The Shining Nakama action are not requested by Luffy lmao, they are requested by the story itself. Without those actions, the protagonists don't have the same impact on the story. I think you have missunderstand quite a few thing that I have explain.. maybe it's my fault, I'm very brief in my explanations.
Basically when I say "those storytelling trick are necessary to the story" I don't mean that characters wants them, I mean that without those "tricks" the story doesn't have the same impact and/or doesn't work.
Also, very important thing and one of the reasons why I think the character of Luffy is so impactfull:
Luffy might be selfish, what he really is, is very empathic. Those two "qualities" don't enter in contradiction.
That's why you can see Luffy understanding the core problem of Laboon and why you see them fight together.. while having the math completely destroyed.
On one hand, Luffy will be very understanding, on the other, he will only help you if he wants to.
That's is why Luffy can smash so much reason in certain characters.. and be so "interventionnist"
Another example of that is what Luffy do with Rebecca. Only because the situation with Kyros and Rebecca was not of his liking (at the end of the arc).. Luffy went all the way to rebecca's castle to capture her in order to put her in front of Kyros.
That's the beauty of the future King of the Pirate.. Luffy wants complete freedom, he doesn't want to rule anything.
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