Powers & Abilities Misconception about Roc moves

#21
Okay. Then what about Jet Culverin on 1025? Any thoughts? Not saying like it is G4 + G2 but for sure it is faster than G2 and we are seeing the whole arm.
Gear 4 in general and Snakeman's portrayal is just different.

In order to show Culverin, you have to show the weird shapes it makes.

And Snakeman can move insanely fast, look at Black Mamba, which is basically a Jet Gatling Culverin:
 
#22
No that's kinda what I'm talking about the OP. Roc moves are in fact bigger Gear 2 moves, which were always bird references when using CoA.

My guess is Luffy felt Gear 2 was too "weak" and Gear 3 was too "slow", so this might be a compromise outside of Gear 4?
Yea the best of both worlds.

It makes even more sense that he created these moves if he still has haki issues from using Gear 4,
 
#23
Why Roc moves only now? After learning ACoA?

As you said Luffy is able to use both G2 and G3 since Thriller Bark. After timeskip he is only using both now and calling it Roc?
 
#25
Yes. I should point out that by default Luffy renames moves based on Armament, except his base moves (they are the same or he calls out CoA before saying the move.

Easiest way to describe:

- Base: No change
- Gear 2: "Jet" w/o Haki. "Hawk"/Other Bird Moves w/ Haki
- Gear 3: "Gigant" w/o Haki. "Elephant"/"Grizzly" w/ Haki
- Gear 2 and 3: No hakiless variant outside of "Jet Shell". "Roc" is the haki variant

Gear 4 is a mix of Gorilla, Lion, Rhino, Snake moves. Snakeman dives into that more with Black Mamba and "Jet" snake moves.

Pretty complex lol
I wonder if Luffy can stack G2/3 on top of G4
 
#26
Why Roc moves only now? After learning ACoA?

As you said Luffy is able to use both G2 and G3 since Thriller Bark. After timeskip he is only using both now and calling it Roc?
What @sanjikun said
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I wonder if Luffy can stack G2/3 on top of G4
He sort of does that already

King Kong Gun is like a combined G3/G4 move. Snakeman in general is G2 and G4. He even uses "Jet" to precede some of the named moves like Jet Culverin (which is just Culverin with Boundman)
 
#27
What @sanjikun said
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He sort of does that already

King Kong Gun is like a combined G3/G4 move. Snakeman in general is G2 and G4. He even uses "Jet" to precede some of the named moves like Jet Culverin (which is just Culverin with Boundman)
I wonder if he can use G2 though with Boundman to make Boundman even faster
 
#29
Because Oda wants to show new stuff. Roc is just a compromise between G2 and G3. Faster than G3, but stronger than G2.

Kaido is just the best person suited for this kind of stuff. Anything slower than G2/Snakeman was too slow for Doflamingo/Katakuri.



The real question is why now after Luffy learned ACoA. That's why everybody is confused about that.
 
#32
Didn’t notice it before but both red roc and roc gatling have steam coming out of Luffy’s body. So all Roc attacks are gear 2 and gear 3 stacking with fire
 
#33
Correlation =/= Causation. It's not because of ACoA. It's because of Kaido. He's the common factor in both of them.
Sorry, what? Luffy fought Kaido before learning ACoA. Why there is no Roc attack back there?

He struggled against Ulti + P1 and would use G4 which he still has drawback. Why not using Roc moves that situation?
 
#34
No, Boundman has much more AP than Snakeman. Boundman is the jack of all trades G4 form, Snakeman is the speed-focused form that sacrifices AP for more speed, and Tankman is the defense-focused form that sacrifices speed for more defense
In that case, then what you are looking for is Kong Organ vs Kong Gatling:





But really here I couldn't tell you which one was more "Gear 2nd" oriented. I'd say Organ because Snakeman uses Black Mamba, which kind of acts like a faster version of Organ.

But really I don't think Gear 4 entirely falls under this whole thing. It's muscle balloon for a reason, so I just would stick to G2/G3/G2+3/G4 for now.

Maybe there's another form of G4 or just G5, but we gotta wait and see.
 
#36
Sorry, what? Luffy fought Kaido before learning ACoA. Why there is no Roc attack back there?

He struggled against Ulti + P1 and would use G4 which he still has drawback. Why not using Roc moves that situation?
Bro he answered why, its by coincidence.

This is like asking why Luffy never used Gear 4 in Fishman Island or Punk Hazard, yet it was confirmed he got it in the timeskip
 
#37
Bro he answered why, its by coincidence.

This is like asking why Luffy never used Gear 4 in Fishman Island or Punk Hazard, yet it was confirmed he got it in the timeskip
Who answered? Roc moves are not confirmed to be got before ACoA.
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Why didn't he use Boundman in FI? Why didn't he use Kong Organ in Dressrosa? Why didn't he use Kong Gatling in WCI?

Oda always invents new moves for new villains. Not everything is related to Haki. Haki is a bonus/boost, not a necessity for Red Roc.
New moves =/= new gear/power up.
Luffy with armament is no longer using Gigant Pistol, he is using Elephant Gun/Thor and we know it is different because of haki.
Same thing here. Roc is only used after ACoA so we logically think it is ACoA attacks which is the kind of attack that hurts Kaido.
 
#38
Who answered? Roc moves are not confirmed to be got before ACoA.
My op quite literally shows you just a mix between Gear 2 and 3. That inherently means it has nothing to do with levels of haki.

Ask yourself this, after Luffy does Red Roc, he goes into Gear 4. Boundman AND Snakeman were used with AdvCoA, and neither had move name changes. That should tell you right there that they have no influence on move names, outside of something that is Hakiless vs imbued with Haki (again, "Jet" vs "Hawk" )
 
#39
Who answered? Roc moves are not confirmed to be got before ACoA.
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New moves =/= new gear/power up.
Luffy with armament is no longer using Gigant Pistol, he is using Elephant Gun/Thor and we know it is different because of haki.
Same thing here. Roc is only used after ACoA so we logically think it is ACoA attacks which is the kind of attack that hurts Kaido.
Dude what the fuck are you arguing? Roc is clearly faster and smaller than Elephant Gun.

Stop wasting people's time.
 
#40
Dude what the fuck are you arguing? Roc is clearly faster and smaller than Elephant Gun.

Stop wasting people's time.
If you don't longer want to discuss shut up.
I'm just saying Luffy's moves got different names after he learned basica armament, so we can assume Roc moves are also different because he learned ACoA
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My op quite literally shows you just a mix between Gear 2 and 3. That inherently means it has nothing to do with levels of haki.

Ask yourself this, after Luffy does Red Roc, he goes into Gear 4. Boundman AND Snakeman were used with AdvCoA, and neither had move name changes. That should tell you right there that they have no influence on move names, outside of something that is Hakiless vs imbued with Haki (again, "Jet" vs "Hawk" )
I believe G4 is not using ACoA and Luffy has a limit of using ACoA initially that's why he changed to G4.
Boundman did changed Kong Organ to Kong Gatling Gun and people argued that to be ACoA change.
 
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