Powers & Abilities Oda did a deservice to have Sanji and Zoro jump mutiple tiers.
- Thread starter IsaziSempi
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Why Oda did not let Doffy « destroyed » Zoro? Just a flick of his hand and Zoro would have been caught in « Parasite » right? Why make a legit top tier intervene?
The thing is I do not care if it is baseless because as I said Oda always outdo the most wild expectations most of the people have for Zoro. You want to be « reasonable » be my guest, I rather let my imagination goes wild and let Oda outdo me anyway
The thing is I do not care if it is baseless because as I said Oda always outdo the most wild expectations most of the people have for Zoro. You want to be « reasonable » be my guest, I rather let my imagination goes wild and let Oda outdo me anyway
Why Oda did not let Doffy « destroyed » Zoro? Just a flick of his hand and Zoro would have been caught in « Parasite » right? Why make a legit top tier intervene?
The thing is I do not care if it is baseless because as I said Oda always outdo the most wild expectations most of the people have for Zoro. You want to be « reasonable » be my guest, I rather let my imagination goes wild and let Oda outdo me anyway
The thing is I do not care if it is baseless because as I said Oda always outdo the most wild expectations most of the people have for Zoro. You want to be « reasonable » be my guest, I rather let my imagination goes wild and let Oda outdo me anyway
good for you.. peace
I mean, I understand calling it "fanboyism" when someone says Zoro was way stronger than Luffy in DR.
But suggesting that Zoro was not that far off from that level is really not something that outlandish.
Zoro's post-TS portrayal is honestly pretty crazy:
-He was introduced cutting a galleon ship in half
-He one-shot Hody underwater in FMI
-He neg diffed an opponent even Luffy deemed as "strong" in Hyouzou--not implying Zoro > Luffy before anyone tries to pull that card
-He negged Monet
-He held his own against Fujitora in a brief clash...think about this: the first opponent to legitimately give Zoro trouble post-TS was a navy admiral
-He obliterated Pica
All of this is before Wano where he displayed even more feats.
I don't think it's a big deal to have the opinion that Zoro wasn't all that far off from Doffy's level.
Zoro did not jump several tiers between DR and the rooftop fight, yet he was able to consistently deal damage to Kaido and even permanently scar him. Should someone that far below Doflamingo be able to do that, when Beginning of Wano Luffy who had gotten much stronger than when he fought Doflamingo, could not yet do so?
But suggesting that Zoro was not that far off from that level is really not something that outlandish.
Zoro's post-TS portrayal is honestly pretty crazy:
-He was introduced cutting a galleon ship in half
-He one-shot Hody underwater in FMI
-He neg diffed an opponent even Luffy deemed as "strong" in Hyouzou--not implying Zoro > Luffy before anyone tries to pull that card
-He negged Monet
-He held his own against Fujitora in a brief clash...think about this: the first opponent to legitimately give Zoro trouble post-TS was a navy admiral
-He obliterated Pica
All of this is before Wano where he displayed even more feats.
I don't think it's a big deal to have the opinion that Zoro wasn't all that far off from Doffy's level.
Zoro did not jump several tiers between DR and the rooftop fight, yet he was able to consistently deal damage to Kaido and even permanently scar him. Should someone that far below Doflamingo be able to do that, when Beginning of Wano Luffy who had gotten much stronger than when he fought Doflamingo, could not yet do so?
Zoro did obliterate Pica with a strong Santoryu move, then Zorowankers such as above dismiss that, saying Zoro used no-name slashes like what? That was a new, and at the time one of the strongest Santoryu move from Zoro and it was not impressive, that’s all I’m saying. From that I can gather that Zoro did not have access to moves as strong as g4 to try and beat Doffy. It took g4 level of raw power, and Doffy outlasted a round, not to mention a GK from Law
Luffy g4 was so strong too. Do people forget forums back then? A lot in the community thought Luffy could solo his crew, and fight admirals. That’s how far Luffy was compared to Zoro, and the rest in terms of feats and portrayal
Doffy had incredible feats and portrayal that people just forgot through the test of time. Zoro held his own against Fuji? What about the time Doffy broke out of Kuzan’s ice in seconds, and even had the balls to try and kill Smoker in his face.
Zoro did jump several tiers from DR, the enma boost was significant. His haki was never that potent, and enma forcefully let it out. Not to mention the offscreen powerups from MCs, even Sanji was able to hurt Queen (an opponent way stronger than Vergo) pre-exo
Luffy g4 was so strong too. Do people forget forums back then? A lot in the community thought Luffy could solo his crew, and fight admirals. That’s how far Luffy was compared to Zoro, and the rest in terms of feats and portrayal
Doffy had incredible feats and portrayal that people just forgot through the test of time. Zoro held his own against Fuji? What about the time Doffy broke out of Kuzan’s ice in seconds, and even had the balls to try and kill Smoker in his face.
Zoro did jump several tiers from DR, the enma boost was significant. His haki was never that potent, and enma forcefully let it out. Not to mention the offscreen powerups from MCs, even Sanji was able to hurt Queen (an opponent way stronger than Vergo) pre-exo
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I think your general points have merit.
But it was pretty much highlighted throughout the Pica fight that Pica simply was not on Zoro's level at all, and really none of his opponents until Wano were. Considering the sheer size of Pica's Golem, I am confident that Zoro had access to moves that would significantly hurt Doffy. I mean, lethality/AP is pretty much his specialty. Now I am not saying he would have 100% beat him, I think it is fair to believe that Zoro had access to moves that would put Doflamingo in danger for sure.
My point about Zoro holding his own against Fuji wasn't supposed to be proof that he could defeat Doflamingo, but rather to show that Zoro's upper limits are very ambiguous.
I disagree about Zoro jumping several tiers to an extent. I agree about the offscreen power-creep, but I don't think Enma's power-boost was significant enough to have Zoro jump several tiers, especially because he still had very little mastery over Enma even by the time of the King fight
Ultimately, my point is more that Zoro's level pre-rooftop was entirely unclear. I believe that saying Zoro "would get as neg diffed as Sanji" or something along those lines is just as presumptuous as saying that Zoro would have defeated Doflamingo. We were more or less shown what Sanji's limits were, while Zoro's limits were basically left in the dark.
I feel like Zoro's portrayal of being very far above his opponents and being given various highlights outside of just his 1v1's is not something that I would just toss aside.
But it was pretty much highlighted throughout the Pica fight that Pica simply was not on Zoro's level at all, and really none of his opponents until Wano were. Considering the sheer size of Pica's Golem, I am confident that Zoro had access to moves that would significantly hurt Doffy. I mean, lethality/AP is pretty much his specialty. Now I am not saying he would have 100% beat him, I think it is fair to believe that Zoro had access to moves that would put Doflamingo in danger for sure.
My point about Zoro holding his own against Fuji wasn't supposed to be proof that he could defeat Doflamingo, but rather to show that Zoro's upper limits are very ambiguous.
I disagree about Zoro jumping several tiers to an extent. I agree about the offscreen power-creep, but I don't think Enma's power-boost was significant enough to have Zoro jump several tiers, especially because he still had very little mastery over Enma even by the time of the King fight
Ultimately, my point is more that Zoro's level pre-rooftop was entirely unclear. I believe that saying Zoro "would get as neg diffed as Sanji" or something along those lines is just as presumptuous as saying that Zoro would have defeated Doflamingo. We were more or less shown what Sanji's limits were, while Zoro's limits were basically left in the dark.
I feel like Zoro's portrayal of being very far above his opponents and being given various highlights outside of just his 1v1's is not something that I would just toss aside.
Zoro is different animal get that through your thick heads
You don't have to be a fanboy to see Zoro was never that far off Luffy since the beginning of the TS. We never saw what Zoro's cap was until Wano. Some people were just desperate to prevent Zoro from being at a certain level. The only arguments against Zoro until now were Luffy is the MC and Zoro's captain, and that he fought Pica. They just capped him at Pica as if that was Zoro's limit or something.
We had no reason to say Zoro would've beaten Doffy or that he was as strong as him, but we had no way to know he wouldn't have been able to pull it off either because we didn't know his upper limit. However, there was a reason why Oda never allowed Zoro anywhere near Doffy when he was completely fine with Doffy owning Sanji. Inb4 Zoro is not allowed to get owned, Fujitora did just that to him.
Now that he did as well as Luffy on Rooftop with 'a partial boost via off-paneled training+Enma' while Luffy received two major power-ups, we can finally say he wasn't below Luffy back in Dressrossa. We just didn't get to see his upper limit until now.
We had no reason to say Zoro would've beaten Doffy or that he was as strong as him, but we had no way to know he wouldn't have been able to pull it off either because we didn't know his upper limit. However, there was a reason why Oda never allowed Zoro anywhere near Doffy when he was completely fine with Doffy owning Sanji. Inb4 Zoro is not allowed to get owned, Fujitora did just that to him.
Now that he did as well as Luffy on Rooftop with 'a partial boost via off-paneled training+Enma' while Luffy received two major power-ups, we can finally say he wasn't below Luffy back in Dressrossa. We just didn't get to see his upper limit until now.
Luffy had to use G4 to beat Doflamingo and still needed help from others due to the time contraint of G4 but people think Zoro would beat Doflamingo??? Just stop the madness. Zoro would have suffered a defeat and Oda can't have that since he made Zoro give that declaration of not loosing again during the Baratie arc.
Sanji literally said he trained off screen
And queen is stronger than doffy
Sanji's genes were straight up confirmed to not be human 200 chapters prior to his power up
Swords being able to absorb haki like enma were only introduced in wano
Sure, that's why oda had sanji confirm that he was nerfing himself by limiting his flammes and is still doing that
And queen is stronger than doffy
Sanji's genes were straight up confirmed to not be human 200 chapters prior to his power up
Swords being able to absorb haki like enma were only introduced in wano
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Sure, that's why oda had sanji confirm that he was nerfing himself by limiting his flammes and is still doing that