I think there is something more in a SBS or something saying the SH are training between island and they became stronger with each adventures etc.
Maybe i dreamt it.
There is not only the sheer force, but also the effects this will have on the opponent. I think Beef Burst can Ko people more than ISDS.
What i know is :
- As a finisher it is Sanji most powerful attack and was portrayed that way.
- it is IJ best attack : IJ focused on strength, speed, haki and hot fire. And it's superior to Exo Hell memories.
- it KO Queen, a 1.32b guy, with huge ancient Zoan and cyborg parts
- it sent him far away from the island
- it happened after 2 PU for Sanji : Exos and IJ.
Obviously we cant know how Queen would have reacted to it if it was the first attack he received since the raid started. But it's the same for all finisher and for all characters, previous damage matters. But that attack has the portrayal of taking out Queen.
Yes it is.
SH are getting stronger and stronger. Opponents too. And the power dynamic between SH is always more or less the same, can vary but not that much.
So yes portrayal can tell you things with great accuracy.
If you beat a high tier with a finisher during Wano there is 99% chance that the attack is better than the one who took down a mid tier 2 arcs ago and two power ups ago.
It was always like that.
I don't understand that part.
How do you know ISDS can finish people better than God thread or beef burst ?
Beef burst finished someone far stronger than Pica. Sulong attacks finished a guy like Jack.
God thread can finish lots of guy too and definitely finish Pica too.
Obviously no one dies in One piece, so we can only counts KO.
I don't think ISDS can finish most high tiers : I don't think it can finish giant smoothie, I don't know if it can finish hybrid Jack, it can't finish or hurt King, can't hurt Jozu, can't finish Queen, given everything Kata took I don't think it can finish Kata too (i don't even talk about if he protects himself with haki or blocks it), can't finish Marco, I don't know if it can finish Doffy etc.
Obviously they are attacks that can't clash against each other. For exemple Gamma knife and KKG. But a direct clash can also say with attack "won" and which attacks was the most powerful. Often you can see both opponents landing their final move and the winner is the one who overpowered the opponent attack.
Among the attacks i listed : most of them have greater force, greater lethality/Ko effect or equal than ISDS.
ISDS can't clash against Beef Burst or KKG. Likely Imperial archer speed mode. It's not outright superior in a clash against Sulong FInisher too.
It also has less KO effects than almost all of them. Karyudon fire, Beef burst strength and fire, God thread piercing power and haki, etc
Only better AOE but when you lack in force, KO effect and protrayal I rate the attack below them.
Ashura with Enma on the roof was only a low top tier attack at best. Hurt kaido but not that much.
ISDS in DR wiithout Enma boost and one arc and half ago : it wouldn't have done anything. Same against BM. Or would have been stopped without that much trouble.
You can't tell me that ISDS during DR was above high tier power level wise. It's a middle pack high tier attack at best. Portrayal matters.
What i can claim with almost certainty is that Sanji finisher has more chance to finish someone than DR ISDS.
If Zoro DR landed ISDS to the Queen who was badly hurt just before Beef burst ? I don't know, ISDS would have hurt him more that sure and maybe, maybe would have taken him down. But i am not that sure.
What i am sure of is and i already stated it above : all in the story is telling it : the opponent, the finisher/strongest attack, the PU before, the dynamic of the crew etc. Zoro second best attack in DR can't be stronger than Sanji strongest move 2 arcs laters and 2 PU laters. Especially when Zoro is taking down King with 2 PU (Enma and COC) and King and Queen are relative to each other.
So what i know is : against a fresh Queen : Beef burst would be more effective than DR ISDS.
Maybe
I don´t believe that, because besides Akainu, who pretty much is the most lethal guy in the world (2 attacks, 2 lethal injuries), swords have always been more lethal within the comparable levels.
And it was DR Zoro´s second most powerful attack.
And to a certain extent you are not wrong about taking the level of opponent the attack was used against into account but like i said, it has a limit, plus to disregard an attack because it was done against a lower level opponent is false.
I think in regards to BB/Sanji it is pretty comparable to Enies Lobby and Kaku/Jabra. Sanji landed 10 or so more attacks on Jabra before he even used DJ, and then needed three attacks iirc to finish Jabra off, Zoro had landed one attack on Kaku before Asura and instantly finished him. And that´s how i see BB and ISDS as well.
So yeah, i do not believe in arbitrary rules like two arcs before and so forth.
That´s a rule you made up for yourself. The Strawhats, putting aside how close you think Sanji and Zoro are, have different strengths. Zoro is still the slowest, has problems landing attacks, but if he lands he usually wins, this has been a constant throughout the entire manga, whereas both Luffy and Sanji are much faster and land attacks much more easily, but in turn do not have the lethality Zoro has.
Lethality is the ability to finish someone with one attack. Dying or not is irrelevant, within the context of One Piece, lethality means that.
Zoro always pretty much finishes his fights with one or two attacks, because if he lands, it is usually lethal within the context of OP.
Queen went through Marco, and many attacks by Sanji, and then several IJ attacks as well, all without Haki protection mind you.
Jack was already finished on the rooftop pretty much, only barely stood up later.
ISDS immediately took out the golem, and then one shotted Pica with full body Haki defense.
So yeah, while i doubt the "effect on the opponent part", we can agree to disagree on that part, but AoE is not even debatable and no, none of the attacks besides God Threat would have done to Pica what Zoro did.
The only other ones i guess would be BB since he probably could absorb the golem, Law and Luffy with Elephant Gutling.
So yeah, i do not agree with the entire sentiment in this paragraph.
Just as an example, Shishi Sonson of pre-TS, the one Zoro used to oneshot Mr1, was still as dangerous to a higher level opponent Kaku, so much so that the dude defended against it instead of tanking it with Tekkai, which would have resulted in a great injury minimum or finished him off, which is substantiated by both Zoro´s and Kaku´s dialogue. And this was also two arcs later.
In comparison, Sanji still needed a dozen or so hits, 2-3 of them with his newest powerup against a comparable opponent as Zoro.
So yeah, it´s not the first time Zoro´s high end attacks of previous attacks are more powerful as the powerup two arcs later.
And this is all besides the point since AP-wise my point still stands, almost no high tier could replicate what Zoro did.