The baiting Room
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"A big part of why I think Shanks may be the true final antagonist (not villain, there is a difference) is Mihawk. Mihawk lost his Shichibukai status and his only known association with another pirate is Shanks. Im not saying he will "join" the Red-Haired pirates as Shanks' subordinate but an alliance almost seems likely since what comes after Wano is the world being in turmoil. For Mihawk to be aimless until his eventual final fight with Zoro seems weird, and that the thing, he should be Zoro's final fight. IF Mihawk joins Shanks, then I pretty much expect Shanks to be Luffy's final fight then as well."
right here is where you lost me cause there just is an order in the opponents luffy takes on and zoro takes on
one that isnt clearly set with shanks and mihawk . as you said we can agree to disagree here.
right here is where you lost me cause there just is an order in the opponents luffy takes on and zoro takes on
one that isnt clearly set with shanks and mihawk . as you said we can agree to disagree here.
If that's really what makes you disagree, then I have nothing else to say lmao
can you establish a n1 n2 relationship with shanks and mihawk ?
you know the same reason you were hellbent on zoro fighting king regardless???
if not then your so called theory goes against what oda has done in the story and will continue to do
"Crowned"
Bro, you are refuting the whole post because of fanboy definitions on the WSS and what that means between Shanks and Mihawk. Point is Shanks became a Yonko and had other aspirations after their duels. What confirms Shanks tried to be the WSS? What confirmed he lost? What confirmed Mihawk won when he was the WSS before they even dueled? What confirms they were dueling for the title?
What Oda has "done" in this story is strongly portray Shanks as FAR more important than Mihawk in every sense of the word, because Mihawk has shown nothing on the same level of Shanks on PAPER. But people want to keep using the WSS title as some catch all argument, when it was never even specified Shanks lost a duel with him lol
I don't "need" to establish an n1 n2 relationship because it's besides the point. I never even said one was stronger than the other. Maybe Luffy and Zoro equal in the end, like maybe Shanks and Mihawk.
Point is, Mihawk will never be the final fight in the series. Can you explain why Zoro would fight Mihawk and not Shiryu if Blackbeard is supposed to be the final villain? Be honest with yourself
Bro, you are refuting the whole post because of fanboy definitions on the WSS and what that means between Shanks and Mihawk. Point is Shanks became a Yonko and had other aspirations after their duels. What confirms Shanks tried to be the WSS? What confirmed he lost? What confirmed Mihawk won when he was the WSS before they even dueled? What confirms they were dueling for the title?
What Oda has "done" in this story is strongly portray Shanks as FAR more important than Mihawk in every sense of the word, because Mihawk has shown nothing on the same level of Shanks on PAPER. But people want to keep using the WSS title as some catch all argument, when it was never even specified Shanks lost a duel with him lol
I don't "need" to establish an n1 n2 relationship because it's besides the point. I never even said one was stronger than the other. Maybe Luffy and Zoro equal in the end, like maybe Shanks and Mihawk.
Point is, Mihawk will never be the final fight in the series. Can you explain why Zoro would fight Mihawk and not Shiryu if Blackbeard is supposed to be the final villain? Be honest with yourself
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and I quote
"A big part of why I think Shanks may be the true final antagonist (not villain, there is a difference) is Mihawk"
I have read your entire argument no other point made was as significant as this .
what do you mean fanboy definitions of the wss , what's the real definition.
and that aside you mean active rivals where one has not been shown to be subordinate or less than the other or is it the part where one is clearly looking for a swordmaster that is better than his prev rival that's confusing here.
"I don't "need" to establish an n1 n2 relationship because it's besides the point."
wdym its besides the point
its not just about zoro fighting mihawk here
but you are implying shanks fights luffy and his crew fights the rest of the strawhats. in every battle that involves the crew
there is an order that's set on who they fight in the opposing crew. ok? thats oda's pattern coded in a vivre card as well (specifically zoro's).
"Maybe Luffy and Zoro equal in the end, like Shanks and Mihawk."
you and i know chances of that happening are slim to none
"Point is, Mihawk will never be the final fight in the series. Can you explain why Zoro would fight Mihawk and not Shiryu if Blackbeard is supposed to be the final villain?"
blackbeard is the final pirate villain for luffy and taking down or surpassing mihawk could be completely isolated from crew battles just as the first fight occurred. I would literally hold the headcanon that shiryu infact kills mihawk and becomes the wss over what you have just posed because it at least holds up the dynamic oda has set for how the crew fights with shiryu more or less confirmed blackbeard's n2.
"What Oda has "done" in this story is strongly portray Shanks as FAR more important than Mihawk in every sense of the word, because Mihawk has shown nothing on the samenlevel of Shanks. But people want to keep using the WSS title as some catch all argument, when it was never even specified Shanks lost a duel with him lol"
far more important in what strength?
or an important character in general cause those are two different things.
never implied shanks beat him either so again this n1-n2 relationship is just not feasible . luffy's opponents are shown/portrayed to be clearly and undoubtedly , unarguably above zoro's.
"A big part of why I think Shanks may be the true final antagonist (not villain, there is a difference) is Mihawk"
I have read your entire argument no other point made was as significant as this .
what do you mean fanboy definitions of the wss , what's the real definition.
and that aside you mean active rivals where one has not been shown to be subordinate or less than the other or is it the part where one is clearly looking for a swordmaster that is better than his prev rival that's confusing here.
"I don't "need" to establish an n1 n2 relationship because it's besides the point."
wdym its besides the point
its not just about zoro fighting mihawk here
but you are implying shanks fights luffy and his crew fights the rest of the strawhats. in every battle that involves the crew
there is an order that's set on who they fight in the opposing crew. ok? thats oda's pattern coded in a vivre card as well (specifically zoro's).
"Maybe Luffy and Zoro equal in the end, like Shanks and Mihawk."
you and i know chances of that happening are slim to none
"Point is, Mihawk will never be the final fight in the series. Can you explain why Zoro would fight Mihawk and not Shiryu if Blackbeard is supposed to be the final villain?"
blackbeard is the final pirate villain for luffy and taking down or surpassing mihawk could be completely isolated from crew battles just as the first fight occurred. I would literally hold the headcanon that shiryu infact kills mihawk and becomes the wss over what you have just posed because it at least holds up the dynamic oda has set for how the crew fights with shiryu more or less confirmed blackbeard's n2.
"What Oda has "done" in this story is strongly portray Shanks as FAR more important than Mihawk in every sense of the word, because Mihawk has shown nothing on the samenlevel of Shanks. But people want to keep using the WSS title as some catch all argument, when it was never even specified Shanks lost a duel with him lol"
far more important in what strength?
or an important character in general cause those are two different things.
never implied shanks beat him either so again this n1-n2 relationship is just not feasible . luffy's opponents are shown/portrayed to be clearly and undoubtedly , unarguably above zoro's.
Saying "a big part" does not equate to my "crowning" argument lol. It was a logic statement. Mihawk has everything to do with Shanks and nothing to do with Blackbeard. This is a fact.
By "fanboy" definition of WSS I mean the simple fact that "fanboy's" like to equate everything Shanks does = Mihawk can do better. If Shanks can stop wars, so can Mihawk. If Shanks can clash with Whitebeard and stop Akainu or Kaido, so can Mihawk. Yet, this has not been proven in the manga, so it's a "fanboy" assumption that confuses sword skill with battle or haki competency or the pure fact that it's NEVER BEEN confirmed Shanks tried to be the WSS and failed. And even if he did, we don't even know the extent of how BOTH Shanks and Mihawk fight.
When we first saw Whitebeard, he merely used his Halberd. Then he showed off his DF power. Shanks "merely" uses his sword at this time. We "simply" do not know the full extent of his fighting style with Haki and the sort, same with Mihawk. There is NOTHING you can say to refute this, because it hasn't been shown yet.
Its besides the point because it literally does not matter. Kaido was portrayed "equal" to Linlin in Wano until he wasn't and now is clearly above her in "portrayal" alone. It doesn't matter if they are equal or not, Kaido is the main Luffy fight this arc, BM wasn't. Same deal with Shanks and Mihawk. If they are equal, then it won't matter because Shanks will be "portrayed" higher than Mihawk because he's a Luffy opponent.
Unlike you I don't think in absolutes
Nowhere does this manga confirm Blackbeard is the final "Pirate villain for luffy".
I like how "possibility" and "could" applies to Mihawk. Mihawk "could" be later or separate. Mihawk "could" be this. Mihawk "could" be that, but never with Shanks. It's "never" possible when it doesn't align with your mindset
On the flipside, that's literally all I'm saying. If you follow my post, I'm saying Shanks "could" be Luffy's final antagonist based on things I state. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ok then Shanks>Mihawk then if that's the limited mindset you want to have about this lmao.
You'd sooner believe Shiryu kills Mihawk than Shanks being portrayed equal or higher than Mihawk in the EoS because of....what exactly?
You realize Shiryu killing the WSS entirely destroys Zoro's notion of his dream right? Hes wanted to surpass Mihawk, not just the WSS. It would entirely destroy his scenes when he asks him to train Zoro.
You realize that Shiryu has zero semblance of honor when it comes to fighting? You think he'd kill Mihawk in an honorable duel? If that happens, you think the WSS is reasonably attained?
These are the same people that shot half dead Whitebeard to kill him and steal his powers.
You call me a fanboy, but the idea of Shanks being central to Luffy's endgame boggles your mind because you either don't like me putting Shanks above Blackbeard or Mihawk. Not sure which character you like more.
Spent way too much time and energy responding to this already. I'm done after this one. If you have an issue with my thought process on Shanks then that's on you lol
By "fanboy" definition of WSS I mean the simple fact that "fanboy's" like to equate everything Shanks does = Mihawk can do better. If Shanks can stop wars, so can Mihawk. If Shanks can clash with Whitebeard and stop Akainu or Kaido, so can Mihawk. Yet, this has not been proven in the manga, so it's a "fanboy" assumption that confuses sword skill with battle or haki competency or the pure fact that it's NEVER BEEN confirmed Shanks tried to be the WSS and failed. And even if he did, we don't even know the extent of how BOTH Shanks and Mihawk fight.
When we first saw Whitebeard, he merely used his Halberd. Then he showed off his DF power. Shanks "merely" uses his sword at this time. We "simply" do not know the full extent of his fighting style with Haki and the sort, same with Mihawk. There is NOTHING you can say to refute this, because it hasn't been shown yet.
Its besides the point because it literally does not matter. Kaido was portrayed "equal" to Linlin in Wano until he wasn't and now is clearly above her in "portrayal" alone. It doesn't matter if they are equal or not, Kaido is the main Luffy fight this arc, BM wasn't. Same deal with Shanks and Mihawk. If they are equal, then it won't matter because Shanks will be "portrayed" higher than Mihawk because he's a Luffy opponent.
Unlike you I don't think in absolutes
Nowhere does this manga confirm Blackbeard is the final "Pirate villain for luffy".
I like how "possibility" and "could" applies to Mihawk. Mihawk "could" be later or separate. Mihawk "could" be this. Mihawk "could" be that, but never with Shanks. It's "never" possible when it doesn't align with your mindset
On the flipside, that's literally all I'm saying. If you follow my post, I'm saying Shanks "could" be Luffy's final antagonist based on things I state. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ok then Shanks>Mihawk then if that's the limited mindset you want to have about this lmao.
You'd sooner believe Shiryu kills Mihawk than Shanks being portrayed equal or higher than Mihawk in the EoS because of....what exactly?
You realize Shiryu killing the WSS entirely destroys Zoro's notion of his dream right? Hes wanted to surpass Mihawk, not just the WSS. It would entirely destroy his scenes when he asks him to train Zoro.
You realize that Shiryu has zero semblance of honor when it comes to fighting? You think he'd kill Mihawk in an honorable duel? If that happens, you think the WSS is reasonably attained?
These are the same people that shot half dead Whitebeard to kill him and steal his powers.
You call me a fanboy, but the idea of Shanks being central to Luffy's endgame boggles your mind because you either don't like me putting Shanks above Blackbeard or Mihawk. Not sure which character you like more.
Spent way too much time and energy responding to this already. I'm done after this one. If you have an issue with my thought process on Shanks then that's on you lol
@Pot Goblin i watched Kramer vs Kramer btw. I loved it.
I especially loved dad's relationship wit his son. His son's sorrow after his mother lefts him and how both of them gets close to each other with time.
Dialogues and chemistries are all great. I immediately recognised Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep too.
Great actors and Dustin Hoffman put a great perfonmance there. I really felt like he was a real person.
I didnt like the ending as much as i wanted. This might be my only criticism in the movie.
I am talking about mother giving the child back to the father.
The story until that point feels like what would happen in real life. This doesnt mean ending is bad no its great.
I just didnt like how mother changed her opinion after putting so much money and time on it.
If you are changing your mind that easily. You dont deserve looking after the child either.
Other than my small criticism. Breakfast scenes are great (i know you only cared for this :/)
Direction acting everything is great in this movie.
Its 9/10 for me i enjoyed it very much. Thx for showing me this wonderful movie.
Dialogues and chemistries are all great. I immediately recognised Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep too.
Great actors and Dustin Hoffman put a great perfonmance there. I really felt like he was a real person.
I didnt like the ending as much as i wanted. This might be my only criticism in the movie.
I am talking about mother giving the child back to the father.
The story until that point feels like what would happen in real life. This doesnt mean ending is bad no its great.
I just didnt like how mother changed her opinion after putting so much money and time on it.
If you are changing your mind that easily. You dont deserve looking after the child either.
Other than my small criticism. Breakfast scenes are great (i know you only cared for this :/)
Direction acting everything is great in this movie.
Its 9/10 for me i enjoyed it very much. Thx for showing me this wonderful movie.
been done for 4 quotes now yet keep quoting me ...
i digress
"You call me a fanboy, but the idea of Shanks being central to Luffy's endgame boggles your mind because you either don't like me putting Shanks above Blackbeard or Mihawk. Not sure which character you like more."
shanks can be central to luffy's endgame without being a villain or antagonist
I havent excluded that possibility; I think you need to read better.
no evidence to put shanks over either of those characters is the issue here sir.
funny how you allude to me liking/fanboying either of these characters as the reason I disagree with the notion you have put forward in the same token call me out for calling you a fanboy for painting shanks as an endgame antagonist with clearer hints in the story pointing to two other figures Blackbeard and the world government.
"You realize Shiryu killing the WSS entirely destroys Zoro's notion of his dream right? Hes wanted to surpass Mihawk, not just the WSS. It would entirely destroy his scenes when he asks him to train Zoro.
You realize that Shiryu has zero semblance of honor when it comes to fighting? You think he'd kill Mihawk in an honorable duel? If that happens, you think the WSS is reasonably attained?
These are the same people that shot half dead Whitebeard to kill him and steal his powers."
I dont want shiryu to kill mihawk nor do I believe he would but I would certainly hold it above what you have put foward. if that displeases you so be it. it allows zoro to surpass mihawk by taking down an opponent that was stronger than him. assumption here shiryu has to do it underhandedly is misguided. most of all the shiryu's relationship with BB mirrors the relationship of most if not all luffy and zoro's opponents , something mihawk shanks never looks like it will.
"By "fanboy" definition of WSS I mean the simple fact that "fanboy's" like to equate everything Shanks dies = Mihawk can do better. If Shanks can stop wars, so can Mihawk. If Shanks can clash with Whitebeard and stop Akainu or Kaido, so can Mihawk. Yet, this has not been proven in the manga, so it's a "fanboy" assumption that confuses sword skill with battle or haki competency or the pure fact that it's NEVER BEEN confirmed Shanks tried to be the WSS and failed. And even if he did, we don't even know the extent of how BOTH Shanks and Mihawk fight."
I didn't so that point is irrelevant .what's relevant to me is
is that they are rivals where one has not acknowledged being inferior of the other .
"Shanks "merely" uses his sword at this time. We "simply" do not know the full extent of his fighting style with Haki and the sort, same with Mihawk. There is NOTHING you can say to refute this, because it hasn't been shown yet."
and you suggest mihawk isn't aware of the extent to his abilities calling him a has been?
ah yes the typical exclusion from what a swordsman is
kaido being the strongest pirate likely excludes him too .
"Its besides the point because it literally does not matter. Kaido was portrayed "equal" to Linlin in Wano until he wasn't and now is clearly above her in "portrayal" alone. It doesn't matter if they are equal or not, Kaido is the main Luffy fight this arc, BM wasn't. Same deal with Shanks and Mihawk. If they are equal, then it won't matter because Shanks will be "portrayed" higher than Mihawk because he's a Luffy opponent."
"Ok then Shanks>Mihawk then if that's the limited mindset you want to have about this lmao."
thats the amazing part isn't it
zoro isn't soloing big mom is he
its luffy's rivals that are in a 2 v1 while he takes on kaido . should say enough if you think that's the kind of relationship shanks and mihawk have.
"I like how "possibility" and "could" applies to Mihawk. Mihawk "could" be later or separate. Mihawk "could" be this. Mihawk "could" be that, but never with Shanks."
god you read without understanding
when zoro fought mihawk the first time did the rest of the strawhats fight people affiliated with him?
was it an all out crew battle?
exhausting .
"Nowhere does this manga confirm Blackbeard is the final "Pirate villain for luffy"."
better odds than shanks so we will see who is right
cheers rofl
i digress
"You call me a fanboy, but the idea of Shanks being central to Luffy's endgame boggles your mind because you either don't like me putting Shanks above Blackbeard or Mihawk. Not sure which character you like more."
shanks can be central to luffy's endgame without being a villain or antagonist
I havent excluded that possibility; I think you need to read better.
no evidence to put shanks over either of those characters is the issue here sir.
funny how you allude to me liking/fanboying either of these characters as the reason I disagree with the notion you have put forward in the same token call me out for calling you a fanboy for painting shanks as an endgame antagonist with clearer hints in the story pointing to two other figures Blackbeard and the world government.
"You realize Shiryu killing the WSS entirely destroys Zoro's notion of his dream right? Hes wanted to surpass Mihawk, not just the WSS. It would entirely destroy his scenes when he asks him to train Zoro.
You realize that Shiryu has zero semblance of honor when it comes to fighting? You think he'd kill Mihawk in an honorable duel? If that happens, you think the WSS is reasonably attained?
These are the same people that shot half dead Whitebeard to kill him and steal his powers."
I dont want shiryu to kill mihawk nor do I believe he would but I would certainly hold it above what you have put foward. if that displeases you so be it. it allows zoro to surpass mihawk by taking down an opponent that was stronger than him. assumption here shiryu has to do it underhandedly is misguided. most of all the shiryu's relationship with BB mirrors the relationship of most if not all luffy and zoro's opponents , something mihawk shanks never looks like it will.
"By "fanboy" definition of WSS I mean the simple fact that "fanboy's" like to equate everything Shanks dies = Mihawk can do better. If Shanks can stop wars, so can Mihawk. If Shanks can clash with Whitebeard and stop Akainu or Kaido, so can Mihawk. Yet, this has not been proven in the manga, so it's a "fanboy" assumption that confuses sword skill with battle or haki competency or the pure fact that it's NEVER BEEN confirmed Shanks tried to be the WSS and failed. And even if he did, we don't even know the extent of how BOTH Shanks and Mihawk fight."
I didn't so that point is irrelevant .what's relevant to me is
is that they are rivals where one has not acknowledged being inferior of the other .
"Shanks "merely" uses his sword at this time. We "simply" do not know the full extent of his fighting style with Haki and the sort, same with Mihawk. There is NOTHING you can say to refute this, because it hasn't been shown yet."
and you suggest mihawk isn't aware of the extent to his abilities calling him a has been?
ah yes the typical exclusion from what a swordsman is
kaido being the strongest pirate likely excludes him too .
"Its besides the point because it literally does not matter. Kaido was portrayed "equal" to Linlin in Wano until he wasn't and now is clearly above her in "portrayal" alone. It doesn't matter if they are equal or not, Kaido is the main Luffy fight this arc, BM wasn't. Same deal with Shanks and Mihawk. If they are equal, then it won't matter because Shanks will be "portrayed" higher than Mihawk because he's a Luffy opponent."
"Ok then Shanks>Mihawk then if that's the limited mindset you want to have about this lmao."
thats the amazing part isn't it
zoro isn't soloing big mom is he
its luffy's rivals that are in a 2 v1 while he takes on kaido . should say enough if you think that's the kind of relationship shanks and mihawk have.
"I like how "possibility" and "could" applies to Mihawk. Mihawk "could" be later or separate. Mihawk "could" be this. Mihawk "could" be that, but never with Shanks."
god you read without understanding
when zoro fought mihawk the first time did the rest of the strawhats fight people affiliated with him?
was it an all out crew battle?
exhausting .
"Nowhere does this manga confirm Blackbeard is the final "Pirate villain for luffy"."
better odds than shanks so we will see who is right
cheers rofl
You literally started this argument lmao. My first post originally was to @Jaguark101, not you
Anyway, I'm done. Not answering the topic anymore
Anyway, I'm done. Not answering the topic anymore
and you kept it going after saying you were done ......
argument was over for me the moment you acknowledged bb would go after pluton to prob place him as the biggest threat after implying in a prev post he wouldn't need to resort to any extreme accomplishment to be hyped.
but hey if you think the strongest person BB takes down before the showdown with luffy is marco
that's fine with me .
argument was over for me the moment you acknowledged bb would go after pluton to prob place him as the biggest threat after implying in a prev post he wouldn't need to resort to any extreme accomplishment to be hyped.
but hey if you think the strongest person BB takes down before the showdown with luffy is marco
that's fine with me .
