General & Others Why do Sanji fans want Sanji to be like Zoro?

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#41
#41
cleanmrpostman said:
Don't say Sanji was ready to die for his dream, but then gave it up. That is one of the specific differences I'm speaking about. Oda doesn't disagree, you're just making a mountain out of Sanji's ambition and conviction.

I've always thought of Sanji as in-between Luffy & Zoro, and the rest of the crew. Nothing happened is a great moment for this, as Sanji tries to do what Zoro does, but for whatever reason can't succeed. Sanji's close, but at the same time quite obviously different. Zoro doesn't need Luffy to pick him up and push him one way or another - because he's a conqueror through-and-through. Sanji needs his captain otherwise he never starts his journey; Zoro did it on his own. Sanji doesn't have their spirit/will, he's more of a follower similar to most of the rest of the crew (which isn't a bad thing necessarily, it's just how it is).

Sanji didn't start as a character willing to die for his dream, and he never became one (wci), not like Zoro or Luffy. Those two are naturally this way, it's a core aspect of them but it isn't for Sanji. It's why I said individual fame, Sanji was never intended to be anyone exceptional outside of Luffy, but Zoro was.

I'm rambling but my basic point is you're trying to make Sanji's half-hearted portrayal as a strong and brave fighter equal to that of Zoro and Luffy as conquerors. Oda has highlighted differences. Sanji not having CoC is a good start.

Your saying Sanji is like Zoro/Luffy, shares their will/spirit is ridiculous. That was impossible, ever since he left and submitted to BM (no matter what reason you give it, Oda'd never have Zoro do that). Zoro will either die or achieve his dream, Luffy will either die or achieve his dream. Sanji can live without it. TB was perfect for this as Zoro's body willed itself through the damage that should have killed him, Sanji's... couldn't. Oda didn't need to have Sanji try and fail, but he did.

Lots of characters have that 'I'll do whatever it takes for this' attitude - I'd argue it's almost a necessity for building a likable heroic character in OP, but that doesn't mean it's a key aspect that immediately puts them on the level of Luffy and Zoro, is my point.
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Tf?

Sanji didn't succeed cause zoro was the one who got up first

When brook told him he what he did he specifically told him
"hey don't praise me, zoro's the hero, I'm just the guy who embarrassed himself"

Brook "no, you had the same resolve


That's literally oda telling you that sanji isn't below zoro for not taking luffy's pain, he is actually just as strong willed, it just wasn't his moment

Also, zoro needed luffy to get stronger cause fighting for luffy gave him more motivation than fighting for his dream

If zoro didn't join luffy he never would've kneeled in front of mihawk and ask him to train him


Your points are beyond ridiculous because Oda is straight up comparing sanji's will to zoro and luffy

Olympic lvl mental gymnastics won't change how views his characters and for him your description of sanji is just wrong

Sanji always was someone ready to die for his dream, he just lost his passion to protect the baratie and that passion got reignited when seing people (luffy and zoro) who were like him

Zoro's body was more durable than sanji's body in TB, it wasn't just about will, also sanji was walking around with a stabbed back he got from protecting nami


Also about sanji being a follower, why was he named captain when the crew got separated? It wasn't even something the crew debated about it was their first instinct, so much for being a follower lmao

Anyways, your point are just you reading sanji's character on the outside, all the moments you're using to downplay him got much more depth than you make it seem (some are just wrong like you using sanji passing out as an example of will) also, all these moments were followed by characters telling sanji that he has the same resolve as zoro and luffy

The irony in this is that your views on sanji are the same views sanji has of himself, and characters constantly tell sanji he's the opposite of what he thinks he is, he isn't weak willed, he isn't a failure, isn't weak willed etc.....
 
Swordtaker

Swordtaker

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#45
#45
roronoa_fan said:
When Oda created Sanji he didn't think about how to develop his dream, it's not like Sanji jumps into the sea and swims until he finds All Blue. With each fight of Zoro he is directly closer to his dream getting stronger and stronger, but Oda has no way of developing this direct build towards Sanji's dream. This doesn't just happen to him, it happens to Nami, Franky and etc.

So all these characters ended up turning into honorary fighters. Their most important activities are as fighters and not with their respective roles.

Let's take the example of Sanji which is the topic. His main function should be to feed his teammates, but SH separates and his function is not necessary. In Dressrosa, their captain eats the local food, so when the WCI happens, others of his teammates go to Wano and Sanji's food doesn't need it either, Zoro manages to keep eating sick lizards, the others eat something in the capital and etc.

So Sanji, who was the cook, is now a fighter, his main contribution to the crew is the fight, we've already seen that if he doesn't cook the crew can keep going, but if he doesn't fight the crew has an embezzlement.

And here we come to their answer, they want Sanji to be like Zoro because Zoro is the one who contributes the most to the crew as a fighter, so Sanji is erased. As his function, which should be the main one, is poorly treated, it's only left for him to fight, but Zoro takes the focus away.

Zoro was one of only two people who managed to tag Kaido and did so without Coc, which makes him even grander, but for the Sanji fan who can only cling to the expectation of him excelling as a fighter it's almost an offense, Sanji is portrayed as the closest to achieving Zoro's power in the crew, but even then he's far away and it bothers them because he's already been abandoned in his lead role.
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sanji was recruited to feed the crew on the ship, not when theyre in town with lots of places to eat. its like youre arguing nami is only navigating when theyre at sunny. lol
 
cleanmrpostman

cleanmrpostman

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#49
#49
Ask D question said:
Tf?

Sanji didn't succeed cause zoro was the one who got up first

When brook told him he what he did he specifically told him
"hey don't praise me, zoro's the hero, I'm just the guy who embarrassed himself"

Brook "no, you had the same resolve


That's literally oda telling you that sanji isn't below zoro for not taking luffy's pain, he is actually just as strong willed, it just wasn't his moment

Also, zoro needed luffy to get stronger cause fighting for luffy gave him more motivation than fighting for his dream

If zoro didn't join luffy he never would've kneeled in front of mihawk and ask him to train him


Your points are beyond ridiculous because Oda is straight up comparing sanji's will to zoro and luffy

Olympic lvl mental gymnastics won't change how views his characters and for him your description of sanji is just wrong

Sanji always was someone ready to die for his dream, he just lost his passion to protect the baratie and that passion got reignited when seing people (luffy and zoro) who were like him

Zoro's body was more durable than sanji's body in TB, it wasn't just about will, also sanji was walking around with a stabbed back he got from protecting nami


Also about sanji being a follower, why was he named captain when the crew got separated? It wasn't even something the crew debated about it was their first instinct, so much for being a follower lmao

Anyways, your point are just you reading sanji's character on the outside, all the moments you're using to downplay him got much more depth than you make it seem (some are just wrong like you using sanji passing out as an example of will) also, all these moments were followed by characters telling sanji that he has the same resolve as zoro and luffy

The irony in this is that your views on sanji are the same views sanji has of himself, and characters constantly tell sanji he's the opposite of what he thinks he is, he isn't weak willed, he isn't a failure, isn't weak willed etc.....
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You're just backing up my argument here. Sanji's close, but at the same time far from Zoro and Luffy. Oda could have had him and Zoro take 50% of Luffy's pain each but he didn't. If you think Zoro and Sanji are the same you're insulting both of their characters: Sanji for (ironically considering the post we're under) ignoring the important parts of what make him unique just to try and lump him in with Zoro, and Zoro for undermining his individual achievements. Brook complimented Sanji's will to try and save his captain, I'm not taking from that, but Sanji himself identified the difference when it came down to it.

You can be a 'follower' type character and lead others at specific times in the story. Once again you're making a mountain out of a molehill with Sanji. Brook took charge of his crew in his captain's stead - is he like Luffy and Zoro? Franky was the leader of the Franky Family - do you consider him equal to Luffy/Zoro? Usopp has (and likely will) lead others - is he the same as Luffy/Zoro? Like I said: you're undermining Zoro and embellishing on Sanji to try to make them the same.

You are the epitome of why this thread's question is asked - you think being a supernova, or someone who's at the forefront of the new generation defines importance, so you're fighting tooth and nail to put Sanji in that place. But once again Oda separates Sanji from Luffy and Zoro, and shows that Sanji's nature can be different while equally important.

Zoro using Luffy as motivation isn't the same as what the other strawhats (including Sanji) did in their typical introduction arcs. Luffy uses his crew/task at hand to motivate him, but that's not the same as needing Luffy to save you from Big Mom or convincing (yes Sanji needed convincing) you to start your journey at all. Zoro didn't need Luffy like Sanji has needed him, and that's okay. That shouldn't take away from Sanji, but for some of his fans it does, which is one of the reasons for the constant Sanji vs Zoro debates (like we're having here).
 
Ask D question

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#51
#51
cleanmrpostman said:
You're just backing up my argument here. Sanji's close, but at the same time far from Zoro and Luffy. Oda could have had him and Zoro take 50% of Luffy's pain each but he didn't. If you think Zoro and Sanji are the same you're insulting both of their characters: Sanji for (ironically considering the post we're under) ignoring the important parts of what make him unique just to try and lump him in with Zoro, and Zoro for undermining his individual achievements. Brook complimented Sanji's will to try and save his captain, I'm not taking from that, but Sanji himself identified the difference when it came down to it.

You can be a 'follower' type character and lead others at specific times in the story. Once again you're making a mountain out of a molehill with Sanji. Brook took charge of his crew in his captain's stead - is he like Luffy and Zoro? Franky was the leader of the Franky Family - do you consider him equal to Luffy/Zoro? Usopp has (and likely will) lead others - is he the same as Luffy/Zoro? Like I said: you're undermining Zoro and embellishing on Sanji to try to make them the same.

You are the epitome of why this thread's question is asked - you think being a supernova, or someone who's at the forefront of the new generation defines importance, so you're fighting tooth and nail to put Sanji in that place. But once again Oda separates Sanji from Luffy and Zoro, and shows that Sanji's nature can be different while equally important.

Zoro using Luffy as motivation isn't the same as what the other strawhats (including Sanji) did in their typical introduction arcs. Luffy uses his crew/task at hand to motivate him, but that's not the same as needing Luffy to save you from Big Mom or convincing (yes Sanji needed convincing) you to start your journey at all. Zoro didn't need Luffy like Sanji has needed him, and that's okay. That shouldn't take away from Sanji, but for some of his fans it does, which is one of the reasons for the constant Sanji vs Zoro debates (like we're having here).
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Man I'm tired of arguing. Let's just agree to disagree and wait to see how the story will go
 
Finalbeta

Finalbeta

Law Nerd
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#52
#52
The reality is that Sanji himself probably doesn't wish to be like our idol Marimo :cheers:At least that would constitute a logical conclusion
 
Akagami Law

Akagami Law

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#53
#53
The Sanji-Zoro dynamic in the comunity alwasy has been heated, but we can resume this specific theme of this topic in Sanji fans being jealous of Zoro's strenght and his conqueors nature.
 
Colt Buntline

Colt Buntline

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#54
#54
Akagami Law said:
The Sanji-Zoro dynamic in the comunity alwasy has been heated, but we can resume this specific theme of this topic in Sanji fans being jealous of Zoro's strenght and his conqueors nature.
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Why would I, as a Sanji fan, be jealous of Zoro's strength if Sanji is stronger than Zoro?
And why would I be jealous of Zoro's conqueror haki if Sanji has much better things, such as Sky Walk, invisible speed, exoskeleton, super regeneration, and Ifrit Jambe?
 
draganax

draganax

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#57
#57
zoro is an amalgamation of max level top tier character virtues, with few moderate aspects.
he is 90% epic, 10% mixed stuff.

it's natural for people to want their favs to be as close to perfection as zoro is.
 
Lingardinho

Lingardinho

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#59
#59
Loool its funny af to hear that "Sanji fans love him for his character" but all the meltdown/shitshow happened when the crews COOK baked a cake in WCI, as if it isnt his whole role in the crew:milaugh:People really were crying cuz he didnt fight commander that arc and Luffy fought against 2 YC. In Wano too when Sanji was caught by Black Maria and refused to defend himself, the meltdown from Sanji fans was next level, even tough after 1000 chapters of him being a simp and doesnt hit women:suresure: Yall dont like Sanjis character, you just want to him be as strong as Zoro, which will never happen.
 
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