General & Others Is Oda trying to force ZKK on us?

[ZenZu]

What would you call it if he doesnt deliver on the thing he has been building up towards for the last 10 years or so?
This is not something that delusional fanboys made up, this has heavy evidence in the manga itself.

As much as Oda wanks Zoro you can double...no..triple that and it makes Luffy.

I'll believe it when I see it. For Oda to take even an ounce of credit from Luffy in his biggest moment ever he would be coughing up blood as he draws that.

The only way I can even visualize it would be Kakashi killing Kakuzu on some side panel after Naruto fully immobilized him. Would you still celebrate if this was the case or does it need to be a grand event?

You mean if it doesn't happen. At this point in time nobody knows if it's going to happen or not since we aren't Oda. There's more in the manga to support it will happen then it won't. If it doesn't then it doesn't. Keep reading the manga and move on.

Sure but if it doesn't happen would that mean the people who said the evidence for ZKK was not strong enough compared to the evidence to the contrary, were right?

 

[Finalbeta]

I think this is a fair conclusion.

There have been so many elements going on for ZKK so far and Zoro is probably only momentarily out or else the Grim Reaper stuff would not have made too much sense to be introduced

 

[ZoroDoesNotKillKaido]

By making Luffy lose, is this his way of forcing the ZKK plot on us due to pressure from the idiot editors?

No, some people want it to happen so badly that they ignore all evidence that it's obviously never happening and pretend ZKK is confirmed.

Just ignore them.

 

[Finalbeta]

Oda is watching over us Zoeo fans

He won't let our dreams fall apart :cheers:

Our dreams are his dreams

 

[centurion]

"Force"? He is not forcing shit. Oda in fact already forshadowed Kid killing Kaido. I'm all in on the KKKcoin.

 

[Fn Lucci]

I love that the slightly smarter people are starting to understand what's happening, even if their excuses for not believing are shit and it's so late that they'll still be called out for the things they've said. Bandwagon doors closed months ago

iF i DoNt LaNd ThIs HiT i LoSe
Sorry Luffy, this is how it's gotta be

 

[spawn]

You guys are retarded.

 

[ZenZu]

I love that the slightly smarter people are starting to understand what's happening, even if their excuses for not believing are shit and it's so late and that they'll still be called out for the things they've said. Bandwagon doors closed months ago

iF i DoNt LaNd ThIs HiT i LoSe
Sorry Luffy, this is how it's gotta be

Since the other guy dodged the question, I wanna ask you the same thing.

If ZKK doesn't happen would that not mean the people who were dismissing it were right about the evidence not being enough?

 

[nik87]

As much as Oda wanks Zoro you can double...no..triple that and it makes Luffy.

I'll believe it when I see it. For Oda to take even an ounce of credit from Luffy in his biggest moment ever he would be coughing up blood as he draws that.

Fair enough, you simply dont believe Luffy's thunder can be stolen.
However, let me ask you one thing - What is the big news regarding Luffy here in Wano?
Is he gonna become a Yonko or is he gonna become Pirate King? Is he the new 1vs1 king?

There is nothing for him to gain here. He already is a Yonko and he hasnt found the treasure yet. And he cant beat Kaido alone.
The downfall of Two Emperors will be attributed to him either way, will be called the ringleader once more.
This whole arc is a setup for big news surrounding Zoro and I am afraid it will steal Luffy's thunder.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Since the other guy dodged the question, I wanna ask you the same thing.

If ZKK doesn't happen would that not mean the people who were dismissing it were right about the evidence not being enough?

I don't think it's 100%, more like 75%. Something else happening is possible but wouldn't follow the set up Oda has been installing. And I'll admit things like colorspread clues can be forced, but much of it is pretty direct and explicitly derived from the actual story.

So I will have a problem with it, just as I jave a problem with Drake being a loser even though I don't care for his character. And there are other plots leading nowhere that I'm forgetting at the moment. However I'll also say that if Zoro doesn't kill Kaido, I will just eat shit

I have a number of bets in place

 

[ZenZu]

I don't think it's 100%, more like 75%. Something else happening is possible but wouldn't follow the set up Oda has been installing. And I'll admit things like colorspread clues can be forced, but much of it is pretty direct and explicitly derived from the actual story.

So I will have a problem with it, just as I jave a problem with Drake being a loser even though I don't care for his character. And there are other plots leading nowhere that I'm forgetting at the moment. However I'll also say that if Zoro doesn't kill Kaido, I will just eat shit

I have a number of bets in place

Do you think it makes Oda less of a writer if ZKK didn't happen after all the presumed evidence, or would it simply be you misunderstanding his message?

Fair enough, you simply dont believe Luffy's thunder can be stolen.
However, let me ask you one thing - What is the big news regarding Luffy here in Wano?
Is he gonna become a Yonko or is he gonna become Pirate King? Is he the new 1vs1 king?

I think narratively Luffy will be given that 1v1 victory over Kaidou, just like narratively he had to break Katakuri's myth. It's true Kaidou went through a gauntlet so this is hardly a true 1v1, but Oda always lies in his narratives, he doesn't bother with the details only the end result matters. I think if the end result ends up being Zoro kills a Kaidou that was on his way to recovering even for Oda he couldn't pull off that narrative for Luffy's sake.

There may be room for a compromise here, which is why I asked you what if Kaidou was completely incapacitated unable to move and no signs of recovery. If you watched Naruto this would make it like KKK (Kakashi killing Kakuzu), where Naruto had completely beaten and immobilized Kakuzu, but Kakashi put him out for good after the fact, would this satisfy you personally? How do you envision Zoro killing Kaidou happening?

 

[Fn Lucci]

Do you think it makes Oda less of a writer if ZKK didn't happen after all the presumed evidence, or would it simply be you misunderstanding his message?




I think narratively Luffy will be given that 1v1 victory over Kaidou, just like narratively he had to break Katakuri's myth. It's true Kaidou went through a gauntlet so this is hardly a true 1v1, but Oda always lies in his narratives, he doesn't bother with the details only the end result matters. I think if the end result ends up being Zoro kills a Kaidou that was on his way to recovering even for Oda he couldn't pull off that narrative for Luffy's sake.

There may be room for a compromise here, which is why I asked you what if Kaidou was completely incapacitated unable to move and no signs of recovery. If you watched Naruto this would make it like KKK (Kakashi killing Kakuzu), where Naruto had completely beaten and immobilized Kakuzu, but Kakashi put him out for good after the fact, would this satisfy you personally? How do you envision Zoro killing Kaidou happening?

I don't think it's a matter of misunderstanding. For example there's no other way to interpret that there is a direct link between Zoro and Ryuma, with a physical resemblance that they are twins down to the fact of a slashed left eye. I don't think you can misinterpret Luffy being knocked out as the citizens of Wano are about to send their wishes up, where Ryuma cut down a dragon above the capital.

There's so much of that shit that even if ZKK doesn't happen, you aren't wrong for thinking Oda at least teased it. It's just unintelligent to deny the very strong chance.

And as far as Luffy goes, his defeat came about by foul play, not one on one. So for one thing he gets the credit of fighting Kaido one on one without winning and therefore technically being the strongest creature. Which would ruin his underdog image.

 

[ZenZu]

I don't think it's a matter of misunderstanding. For example there's no other way to interpret that there is a direct link between Zoro and Ryuma, with a physical resemblance that they are twins down to the fact of a slashed left eye. I don't think you can misinterpret Luffy being knocked out as the citizens of Wano are about to send their wishes up, where Ryuma cut down a dragon above the capital.

There's so much of that shit that even if ZKK doesn't happen, you aren't wrong for thinking Oda at least teased it. It's just unintelligent to deny the very strong chance.

And as far as Luffy goes, his defeat came about by foul play, not one on one. So for one thing he gets the credit of fighting Kaido one on one without winning and therefore technically being the strongest creature. Which would ruin his underdog image.

What if in Oda's head all of that was to lead up to Zoro using dragon damnation against King's magma dragon? Therefore he can (in his mind) fulfill Zoro's dragon symbolism while not giving up any of Luffy's shine. Would you fault Oda's writing skills or would you consider there's some bias that potentially blinded you from seeing that reality as well?

 

[bennbeckman]

Whether or not ZKK will happen can be seen from both sides but what will definitely happen is Kaido dying

 

[Fn Lucci]

What if in Oda's head all of that was to lead up to Zoro using dragon damnation against King's magma dragon? Therefore he can (in his mind) fulfill Zoro's dragon symbolism while not giving up any of Luffy's shine. Would you fault Oda's writing skills or would you consider there's some bias that potentially blinded you from seeing that reality as well?

That's just it. Like I said, there's so much that even if you wanted to say one thing is being falsely interpreted, there's more.

To answer your question... no, the build up was not for the magma dragon. Why? First because no one actually saw it. Second because as of this very chapter, we're getting the set up for the citizens of Wano to look into the sky. Since chapter 1015 or so we have repeatedly been shown scenes from the ground along these lines. Zoro mentioned his desire to avenge Yasuie and Toko is sending up her wish. However, the revenge against Orochi will not be visible from the ground, especially because at the moment he's blocked from even using his Zoan.

What do you believe that the citizens of Wano are being set up to see? What other event in the sky had hints?

 

[nik87]

There may be room for a compromise here, which is why I asked you what if Kaidou was completely incapacitated unable to move and no signs of recovery. If you watched Naruto this would make it like KKK (Kakashi killing Kakuzu), where Naruto had completely beaten and immobilized Kakuzu, but Kakashi put him out for good after the fact, would this satisfy you personally? How do you envision Zoro killing Kaidou happening?

I would rather ZKK not happen if it is going to happen vs beaten Kaido who cant do anything except lie on the ground.
It will either happen the same way it happened for Ryuma in Monsters or it will happen to hybrid Kaido who acknowledges Zoro as the monster samurai greater than Oden and for that to happen something before has to happen.

Either way, it needs to happen in public for Wano citizens to see it, whether Samurai of Onigashima alone or commoners of the capital as well and also the invading World Government forces as well. It is basically the repeat of several Ryuma's legends with one event. Killing a dragon above capital, considered a sword god, probably Kokuto forged as well and invading WG forces backing off because of monster samurai.

Too much fame off Luffy's plate? He got big fame in previous arc when he was proclaimed a Yonko and he will get more fame when he finds the treasure. In the arc in between those two, his crew member can steal his thunder.

 

[S.W317]

Luffy fanboys down tremendously bad this week.

Btw I’m not a Luffy fan, I’m a main character fan I just loooove main characters, and enjoy when they are being wanked and revered by other side characters; and if you think that the main character shouldn’t be the one defeating character but rather Zoro and you think that’s good reading then good for you. But personally once ZKK happens I’ll drop one garbage

 

[yorosenpai]

ZKK is coming, Zoro is on top of the world dont forget that pleb:cheers:(anime team said that)

 

[Roronoa-sama]

By making Luffy lose, is this his way of forcing the ZKK plot on us due to pressure from the idiot editors?

copium level good

 

[Patryipe]

By making Luffy lose, is this his way of forcing the ZKK plot on us due to pressure from the idiot editors?

Are you finally ready to move to stage 5 my man?