General & Others Sanji is a contradiction.
- Thread starter Fiji
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Sanji's behavior isn't a contradiction when you realize that
And
are two sides of the same coin. Sanji doesn't see women as equal to men, so sometimes he treats them as infallible goddesses, other times as sex objects.
I like Sanji. I even named my cat Sanji!
but it would be nice to see him show some growth.
And
are two sides of the same coin. Sanji doesn't see women as equal to men, so sometimes he treats them as infallible goddesses, other times as sex objects.
I like Sanji. I even named my cat Sanji!
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I don't see that at all. He's had plenty of character defining moments, trials, and characteristics so his gag means nothing to me. The only way it would ever affect him is if it actually is all he does (More like a Master Roshi). A few gags spread out like this don't define him at all. Any person who brings up Sanji's perverseness as his defining quality most likely only seen a couple of anime episodes or barely read the story, Sorry.
His perversion does not go against what he stands for. He still holds women on a pedestal where he pervs after him or not. No gag is gonna change that. As I stated earlier, Oda contrasted Sanji with a person who actually treats women like trash and sees them as disposable objects (Abasolom) and had Sanji body him.
Plus Nami hitting him for the final blow
Plus Nami hitting him for the final blow
Just because Sanji isn't the same as Absalom doesn't mean Sanji isn't disrespectful toward women. Sanji doesn't hold any ill intent or contempt toward the women he simps for, he's just disrespectful in his actions. You don't have to be a bad person to do bad things.
Sanji's character is undeniably contradictory. Had Oda made the effort to show us Sanji reflecting on this contradictory behaviour, it could have been amazing for his character, but when it's just contradictory with no meaning, it's shitty. I'm not saying Sanji is this terrible person, I'm saying his character is flawed (in writing).
Sanji's character is undeniably contradictory. Had Oda made the effort to show us Sanji reflecting on this contradictory behaviour, it could have been amazing for his character, but when it's just contradictory with no meaning, it's shitty. I'm not saying Sanji is this terrible person, I'm saying his character is flawed (in writing).
Well this is Japan, the country of lolita, maids and hard otaku (am not taking about "someone who likes reading manga" as other countries often mistake the meaning)... imo, no wonder Oda depicted Sanji as the typical perv weirdos who idolize a girl and respect her almost as a godess, would be ready to protect her with all their might while at the same time being totally obsessed with her body and hope to bang them if they could...
Is it morally acceptable? obviously not... Does that make Sanji a contradiction? not so much from Oda's and Japanese audience point of view imo! But what you're missing i think is that Oda always show it's a wrong behavior to be condemned, with Sanji getting beaten up hard by Nami
haha bro let's not forget that Sanji is not "a fighter who can cook" but he has always been "a cook who can got damn well fight" ;)
Is it morally acceptable? obviously not... Does that make Sanji a contradiction? not so much from Oda's and Japanese audience point of view imo! But what you're missing i think is that Oda always show it's a wrong behavior to be condemned, with Sanji getting beaten up hard by Nami
haha bro let's not forget that Sanji is not "a fighter who can cook" but he has always been "a cook who can got damn well fight" ;)
As a used to be huge fan of Sanji, his character as a whole is a walking contradiction hence one of the reasons he’s like my 4th fav now.
Respects Women — but tells them they can’t fight and fights in their stead
Says he doesn’t want assistance from his family — dons the raid suit ...
The “gag” has gone on for too long in Sanji’s original introduction he is seen pouring out Wine for a lady and being suave displaying that he is a better man than Fullbody who uses his Marine title for attention.
But again the sexual references in the OP are a bit over the top as @Garp the Fist mentioned it comes down to how the West views sexual behavior versus the East.
So I agree but at the same time I don’t think it should be taken too seriously especially from a Shonen point of view.
Respects Women — but tells them they can’t fight and fights in their stead
Says he doesn’t want assistance from his family — dons the raid suit ...
The “gag” has gone on for too long in Sanji’s original introduction he is seen pouring out Wine for a lady and being suave displaying that he is a better man than Fullbody who uses his Marine title for attention.
But again the sexual references in the OP are a bit over the top as @Garp the Fist mentioned it comes down to how the West views sexual behavior versus the East.
So I agree but at the same time I don’t think it should be taken too seriously especially from a Shonen point of view.
T
how its that a contradiction?
he does not want to cause physical harm to women. ok.
but he wants to check out their physique. also ok.
its not a respect for women that makes him not hurt them, its the doctrine from Zeff.
there is not problem with the perversion gag to affect the plot. or any gag for that matter.
in Alabasta Zoro ran up the building cause he thought up was north...
that also directly affected the plot.
Zoro getting lost triggered half of the events in Wano right now.
Sanjis gags are fine and his character is not a contradiction.
they may have gotten a little overboard lately, but its still something funny.
the bathroom scene where Namis happiness punch unstealthes him was genuinely funny to me. he was there for a real reason and not just to peek. and its not like he has not seen Namis tits before. half the crew has.
he does not want to cause physical harm to women. ok.
but he wants to check out their physique. also ok.
its not a respect for women that makes him not hurt them, its the doctrine from Zeff.
there is not problem with the perversion gag to affect the plot. or any gag for that matter.
in Alabasta Zoro ran up the building cause he thought up was north...
that also directly affected the plot.
Zoro getting lost triggered half of the events in Wano right now.
Sanjis gags are fine and his character is not a contradiction.
they may have gotten a little overboard lately, but its still something funny.
the bathroom scene where Namis happiness punch unstealthes him was genuinely funny to me. he was there for a real reason and not just to peek. and its not like he has not seen Namis tits before. half the crew has.
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For 1 and 2:
I'll refer you back to what one of the member stated about the difference between Sanji and Absalom.
For 3:
That's true, I will not disagree with this scene. But the justification Oda already gave which is that Sanji was having "issues" after coming back from Kamabakka Kingdom. As he was weak in resisting considering he have not seen a single woman for 2 years. Which resulted in him acting "out of his character"
Where the usual Sanji will just be pervert but without forcing himself and be too pushy to reach a harrassment level. But this scene, no one can disagree with you that it reached a level or harrassment, however, I'll say it again, in terms of story writing, it was justified by Oda as to why Sanji acted this way! So there is no contradiction!
Oda even made sure to highlight the idea of Chopper supervising Sanji and treating him.
Eventually, blaming a "sickness" which is a gag sickness, but nontheless since you don't care if it's just a gag. i will say that sanji has been going through sickness. And in modern law, being having sickness that justifies your actions will only make you go through treatment until you are ready.
People have escaped murder in our world because they were sick, and lawyers justified it as that. Regardless if they were actually true and right, or they were pretending to be psycologically ill.
So, the point is, your whole number 3 was justified with Oda making Chopper realize that Sanji is suffering with ladies "more than he usually does" and he cannot contain himself at all.
4- I still disagree. Nothing can be totally black and white. Sure, in our society, I do have moral stance on many things saying that's right and that's wrong. But this same society after few hundred years, you will see them have a TOTAL different moral stance on so many things.
Oda writes the most well-versed most expanding Story I have ever seem in my life. Everything about this life, and everything abput myths, and every other things can all exist in this manga.
For you to simply demand Oda to write his story in a limited way and cater to specific mentality is what stupid Hollywood are doing! That's why I stopped watching cringy hollywood shit as most movies became so cringy in a way trying to "educate" the public about how you should think!
So, no! Oda should write his story however he wants, the way he likes... and if the "japanese" people are having problems with Sanji, and having problems with Oda's way of writing.. you wouldn't finf One Piece as popular as it is in Japan! And basically loved by everyone!
You would have seen tons of people accusing Oda of writing inappropriate stuff for their generation by making one of the main character act this way.
So... because Oda has authenticity about his work.. writes what he likes... even with silly gags which you want to make big deals out of it! He has shown success beyond any manga. He's authentic. And he does not CATER to no one!
He writes and delivers the messages he wants to deliver.
Catering is the act of cowards who wants cheap success route! Aka what Hollywood is like now!
I'll refer you back to what one of the member stated about the difference between Sanji and Absalom.
For 3:
That's true, I will not disagree with this scene. But the justification Oda already gave which is that Sanji was having "issues" after coming back from Kamabakka Kingdom. As he was weak in resisting considering he have not seen a single woman for 2 years. Which resulted in him acting "out of his character"
Where the usual Sanji will just be pervert but without forcing himself and be too pushy to reach a harrassment level. But this scene, no one can disagree with you that it reached a level or harrassment, however, I'll say it again, in terms of story writing, it was justified by Oda as to why Sanji acted this way! So there is no contradiction!
Oda even made sure to highlight the idea of Chopper supervising Sanji and treating him.
Eventually, blaming a "sickness" which is a gag sickness, but nontheless since you don't care if it's just a gag. i will say that sanji has been going through sickness. And in modern law, being having sickness that justifies your actions will only make you go through treatment until you are ready.
People have escaped murder in our world because they were sick, and lawyers justified it as that. Regardless if they were actually true and right, or they were pretending to be psycologically ill.
So, the point is, your whole number 3 was justified with Oda making Chopper realize that Sanji is suffering with ladies "more than he usually does" and he cannot contain himself at all.
4- I still disagree. Nothing can be totally black and white. Sure, in our society, I do have moral stance on many things saying that's right and that's wrong. But this same society after few hundred years, you will see them have a TOTAL different moral stance on so many things.
Oda writes the most well-versed most expanding Story I have ever seem in my life. Everything about this life, and everything abput myths, and every other things can all exist in this manga.
For you to simply demand Oda to write his story in a limited way and cater to specific mentality is what stupid Hollywood are doing! That's why I stopped watching cringy hollywood shit as most movies became so cringy in a way trying to "educate" the public about how you should think!
So, no! Oda should write his story however he wants, the way he likes... and if the "japanese" people are having problems with Sanji, and having problems with Oda's way of writing.. you wouldn't finf One Piece as popular as it is in Japan! And basically loved by everyone!
You would have seen tons of people accusing Oda of writing inappropriate stuff for their generation by making one of the main character act this way.
So... because Oda has authenticity about his work.. writes what he likes... even with silly gags which you want to make big deals out of it! He has shown success beyond any manga. He's authentic. And he does not CATER to no one!
He writes and delivers the messages he wants to deliver.
Catering is the act of cowards who wants cheap success route! Aka what Hollywood is like now!
What I see here is a lack of understanding for the simplest concept, in those for or against. The "white knight" ideology objectifies women in believing they are different: weaker physically, easier to manipulate, etc. Things that make them worth protecting because they are lesser in ways outside of what makes them desirable to us. The lust for them as women instead of the respect for them as people is what gets them put on the pedestal, as Sanji does. He's not a contradiction but a fine critique. Oda does have sexist moments, albeit through a lens foreign to many of us, but Sanji is a lampshade.
