Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced

[HPsyche]

Interesting Catch.

I still believe there are levels to CoA.

Take for example Sai.

When Sai was in the coliseum he was capable of using the invisible haki, but when he finally unlocked the hardening(CoA) against his Grandfather Oda began drawing him using it in multiple scenarios i.e. against Lao G & protecting himself against Pica's attack.

So there does seem to be a level a difference, between the two, I could be wrong though.

There definitely are as you've said.

There are 2 forms of the Invisible Armament Haki. The Black coloured one is invisible, but the strongest form of Armament.

As you pointed out, Sai was using the invisible one, and then unlocked the black shaded Armament that is also invisible.

Most Haki users are only capable of using the basic invisible one like Tashigi for example.

 

[HPsyche]

from vista's vivrecard

This is a black blade.

Characteristic: Incredibly hard.

Haki: Makes things hard, not black.

Coating a sword with Haki makes it like a Black Blade/Incredibly hard.

So, yes, Zoro is indeed capable of coating his Swords into black blade like swords.

 

[nik87]

@HPsyche Most of us forgot where the "black shading is aid for readers" comes from, including me. Is there a manga or SBS confirmation for this or we are assuming it to be so based on some parts of the manga?
Also, if Hardening is only black for us readers, a Kokuto shouldn't be, otherwise, it wouldn't be called a black blade if no one can see it is black.

 

[HPsyche]

@HPsyche Most of us forgot where the "black shading is aid for readers" comes from, including me. Is there a manga or SBS confirmation for this or we are assuming it to be so based on some parts of the manga?
Also, if Hardening is only black for us readers, a Kokuto shouldn't be, otherwise, it wouldn't be called a black blade if no one can see it is black.

I could ask you how do you know the Invisible Haki is weaker than the Black Armament? Is it written in an SBS or in the Manga explicitly?

If you answer this, I'll tell you where black shading is an aid for readeres.

 

[HPsyche]

So you’re talking out of your ass. Nice to know

You will be reported for being rude and blocked, you don't know how to discuss.

 

[nik87]

I could ask you how do you know the Invisible Haki is weaker than the Black Armament? Is it written in an SBS or in the Manga explicitly?
If you answer this, I'll tell you where black shading is an aid for readeres.

That's all I wanted to know. There is no definitive statement for it but is likely the case to be a visual aid for a reader.
Kokuto is definitely black color which everyone can see and Hardening makes the blades look like Kokuto, at least temporarily.
Z, even tho he is not cannon, was called the Black Arm due to his Hardening, afaik...
There can be made a case for either way, no need to hammer like a maniac for either side...

 

[HPsyche]

Kokuto is definitely black color which everyone can see

Most definitely isn't black for others to see.

If Haki was visibly black, Franky would know that Luffy was a Haki user at Punk Hazard.

He never knew Luffy was a Haki user until Punk Hazard.

More so, chapter 504 doesn't shows a shaded fist when Luffy couldn't use Haki; Chapter 947, it's black, the same scene. So, Haki is most definitely not black. It's just an indicator of the higher level of Armament.

Also, Haki is always stated as being invisible.

 

[nik87]

Most definitely isn't black for others to see.

If Haki was visibly black, Franky would know that Luffy was a Haki user at Punk Hazard.

He never knew Luffy was a Haki user until Punk Hazard.

More so, chapter 504 doesn't shows a shaded fist when Luffy couldn't use Haki; Chapter 947, it's black, the same scene. So, Haki is most definitely not black. It's just an indicator of the higher level of Armament.

Also, Haki is always stated as being invisible.

I didnt say Hardening is definitely black for everyone to see, I said Kokuto is definitely black which everyone can see.

 

[HPsyche]

Kokuto is definitely black color which everyone can see and Hardening makes the blades look like Kokuto, at least temporarily.

if that were true, then Haki would have been shaded black pre-skip. Marineford would have been full of characters with Black shaded limbs, but just like Sabaody where Rayleigh used it wasn't black, neither was Marineford because only Haki users can discern it and it's only Black when it's the higher level of Armament.

The Advanced CoA can only be done with the Black shaded Armament:
Sentomaru used Advanced CoA on Luffy and Luffy didn't ask how or why his hands turned black.

No where in the series has anyone's limbs been stated to be turn black from using Haki.

Rayleigh also described Haki as invisible too.

Deflection can only be performed with Advanced CoA which requires the black shaded Armament. Chapter 597, his palms aren't shaded Black.

Haki is not black, it's invisible and only shaded in black for the reader to know which level of Armament is being used.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

I feel as if Kinemon's "Firefox style" could be linked to Ryuo. We know that he must have control over haki flow as he was able to Harden his sword, something that can only be done via control over flow.

Hence I think its a genuine possibility. Perhaps Kinemon knows a way to use his haki to heat up his blades so that they ignite.

 

[HPsyche]

I didnt say Hardening is definitely black for everyone to see, I said Kokuto is definitely black which everyone can see.

No one has argued that.

Pretty obvious to everyone it's a literal black blade.

More so, if your point is that because the Yoru is literally Black and is therefore Haki, then we can be certain it isn't because Monet got cut by Yoru and wasn't hurt despite being a Logia. Logias are affected by Haki.

 

[Zenos7]

Luffy used what appears to be Black Haki after the Time-Skip in front of the entire crew.

Yet, Franky only realises that Luffy is a haki user at Punk Hazard because he made contact with a Logia.

Or, the easier explanation, franky is just wondering about it because luffy is using the invisible application for touching a logia body.

 

[HPsyche]

Or, the easier explanation, franky is just wondering about it because luffy is using the invisible application for touching a logia body.

Not really.

Franky asked if that's Haki at work.

He shouldn't be surprised Luffy is a Haki user if he'd already seen his first turn black before.

If he'd seen Luffy's massive gargantuan fist turn black, he shouldn't be surprised Luffy is a Haki user to begin with. You can't exactly miss a huge back fist.

 

[Zenos7]

Not really.

Franky asked if that's Haki at work.

He shouldn't be surprised Luffy is a Haki user if he'd already seen his first turn black before.

If he'd seen Luffy's massive gargantuan fist turn black, he shouldn't be surprised Luffy is a Haki user to begin with. You can't exactly miss a huge back fist.

and there is nothing suggesting that franky didnt know luffy was a haki user before. Where are you getting that from?

Not to mention zoros flashback is also debunking this crazy notion of hardening haki not being visibly black, as he is now drinking alcohol again but doesnt have a permanent black blade yet.

 

[HPsyche]

and there is nothing suggesting that franky didnt know luffy was a haki user before. Where are you getting that from?

No one asks questions about something they already know.

It's illogical to claim someone would ask another person if they can use Haki when they know they can use Haki.

Would be like saying it makes sense for Shanks to ask Whitebeard if he can use Haki when he knows he can use Haki.

Makes no sense.

No reason for Franky to say "is that Haki he's using" when he should know full well that Luffy is a Haki user assuming Haki was black.

Not to mention zoros flashback is also debunking this crazy notion of hardening haki not being visibly black, as he is now drinking alcohol again but doesnt have a permanent black blade yet.

Not at all.

He just said any sword can become a black blade.

Not that Haki is black.

 

[nik87]

No one has argued that.
Pretty obvious to everyone it's a literal black blade.
More so, if your point is that because the Yoru is literally Black and is therefore Haki, then we can be certain it isn't because Monet got cut by Yoru and wasn't hurt despite being a Logia. Logias are affected by Haki.

Exactly, Kokuto is obviously black to everyone. What is a visual difference between a Kokuto and a blade in Hardening? None.
Monet got cut by Shusui.* I never claimed that Kokuto is permanently hakified, it also doesnt exclude the option that it became Kokuto through Haki. Black blade's hardness is permanently modified, it is not permanently clad in Hardening.

 

[Rivaille]

Does the word « black » has another sense in English that I don’t know?

 

[HPsyche]

Exactly, Kokuto is obviously black to everyone. What is a visual difference between a Kokuto and a blade in Hardening? None.

Wrong actually.

Kokuti is the colour of the blade.

Haki is not coloured, it's invisible. Just shaded black in the series so we know it's in use.

 

[Zenos7]

No one asks questions about something they already know.

It's illogical to claim someone would ask another person if they can use Haki when they know they can use Haki.

Would be like saying it makes sense for Shanks to ask Whitebeard if he can use Haki when he knows he can use Haki.

Makes no sense.

No reason for Franky to say "is that Haki he's using" when he should know full well that Luffy is a Haki user assuming Haki was black.

"is that haki at work?"

How are you reading into this that franky is asking whether luffy is a haki user?

Not at all.

He just said any sword can become a black blade.

Not that Haki is black.

• Zoro cant drink alcohol until he turns his weapon black
• Zoro is drinking alcohol now
• Zoro does not have a permanent black blade

Only logical conlusion here is that hardening actually makes objects/body parts black.

Does the word « black » has another sense in English that I don’t know?

Maybe. Im not sure.

 

[HPsyche]

it also doesnt exclude the option that it became Kokuto through Haki.

Wouldn't make sense.

100s of powerful Haki users whose Swords are not black. Couldn't simply be Haki.

Only 2 Black Swords in the entire series despite the fact there are Haki users like Roger, Shanks and Vista who use blades and are powerful Haki users.

More to it than Haki.

If anything, the only role Haki has is keeping the Sword in pristine condition and free from nicks which is more or less the only hint Mihawk has given us as to how a blade becomes black other than countless battles as hinted in Wano.