Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced

[Finalbeta]

Of course there's no part of that, lol.

Hardening being black is just a decision by Oda to visually show the differences between regular invisible armor and the concentrated one; the latter being shaded.
I thought people would have known that already but I guess, this is not the case, lmao.

Yes

I was trying to explain the same

 

[HPsyche]

Since Kokuto's are black and Hardening makes blades look exactly like Kokutos. Dont jump around with useless arguments.

What's useless is your argument.

Kokuto's black is an actual colour.

Black Haki is not an actual colour, just a representation of the strongest form of Armament, lol.

No panel stating Haki is Black bud.

 

[HPsyche]

It is spirit. What is Haki?

You're making things.

Zoro never became a Haki user until after the time-skip, lol.

Asura is not Haki.

 

[HPsyche]

The argument you people who claim Haki is black make are always... never mentioned in the Manga.

I wonder why.

 

[Sentinel]

Yes, Asura is spirit.

We have yet to know what triggered Asura and what's the meaning behind Asura being spirit.

There's no confirmation whatsoever which clearly states that the spirit of Asura is also Haki based.

 

[Finalbeta]

We have yet to know what triggered Asura and what's the meaning behind Asura being spirit.

There's no confirmation whatsoever which clearly states that the spirit of Asura is also Haki based.

We know it's based on his own will. This is very interesting in my opinion.

 

[Sentinel]

We know it's based on his own will. This is very interesting in my opinion.

That's right, but how is Asura exactly connected to Zoro's will? And how's Kyoshiro's current state connected as well? There are things which Oda have yet to explain.

Arbitrary putting these stuff on par with Haki is just wrong when we have no proof of that.
Maybe we'll know it better if Zoro uses Asura again.

 

[nik87]

What's useless is your argument.
Kokuto's black is an actual colour.
Black Haki is not an actual colour, just a representation of the strongest form of Armament, lol.

No panel stating Haki is Black bud.

Now, the only thing you need is to quote me where I said Hardening is actually black and you cant do that. I said, visually they look the same, at least to us as audience.

You're making things.
Zoro never became a Haki user until after the time-skip, lol.
Asura is not Haki.

The irony... Zoro became Haki user in Alabasta. You are the one who makes things up.

 

[Rivaille]

Of course there's no part of that, lol.

Hardening being black is just a decision by Oda to visually show the differences between regular invisible armor and the concentrated one; the latter being shaded.
I thought people would have known that already but I guess, this is not the case, lmao.

So why in certain instance, post-ts, of people using haki there is no black shading?

But thanks to @HPsyche pictures we know that there a black CoA.

 

[HPsyche]

The irony... Zoro became Haki user in Alabasta. You are the one who makes things up.

Nope.

He became a Haki user after the time-skip.

Not sure why you're lying about basic facts now.

You lose credibility when you have to starting lying, lol.

Now, the only thing you need is to quote me where I said Hardening is actually black and you cant do that. I said, visually they look the same, at least to us as audience.

Lol, obvious they look the same.

Doesn't mean it's visibly black to the OPverse.

 

[HPsyche]

So why in certain instance, post-ts, of people using haki there is no black shading?

It's because it's the weaker form of Armament.

Tashigi for example is only capable of using that version whereas Smoker can use both the non-shaded and the shaded version.

It's just there to indicate the strongest form.

You'd notice only the strongest characters in a crew can use the shaded version:

• Chinjao of the Happou Navy
• Joker, Vergo, Pica
• Sai when he got stronger through fighting Chinjao
• Luffy & Zoro
• Garp
• Smoker

Relatively weaker characters cannot use it.

More so, characters capable of using shaded and non-shaded always use the shaded version for their strongest attacks proving it's the strongest form of Armament.

 

[Rivaille]

It's because it's the weaker form of Armament.

Tashigi for example is only capable of using that version whereas Smoker can use both the non-shaded and the shaded version.

It's just there to indicate the strongest form.

You'd notice only the strongest characters in a crew can use the shaded version:

• Chinjao of the Happou Navy
• Joker, Vergo, Pica
• Sai when he got stronger through fighting Chinjao
• Luffy & Zoro
• Garp
• Smoker

Relatively weaker characters cannot use it.

More so, characters capable of using shaded and non-shaded always use the shaded version for their strongest attacks proving it's the strongest form of Armament.

Where it is stated to be a strongest version?

 

[HPsyche]

Where it is stated to be a strongest version?

Not stated, it's implied.

• Only the strongest characters can use it - that's a fact.
• The most powerful characters ALWAYS use it for their ultimate attacks - that's a fact.
• Sai was promoted to captain of the Happou Navy only after he unlocked the shaded Armament - that's a fact.
• There's a reason Luffy uses it only for Gear 4th - It's the hardest form of Armament, thus, the why he uses it so he can increase the strength and power of his elasticity.

Reading in-between the lines, pretty obvious it's the stronger version.

 

[Sentinel]

But thanks to @HPsyche pictures we know that there a black CoA.

Nothing of that indicates there is black CoA; stop twisting the statements.

 

[Rivaille]

Not stated, it's implied.

• Only the strongest characters can use it - that's a fact.
• The most powerful characters ALWAYS use it for their ultimate attacks - that's a fact.
• Sai was promoted to captain of the Happou Navy only after he unlocked the shaded Armament - that's a fact.
• There's a reason Luffy uses it only for Gear 4th - It's the hardest form of Armament, thus, the why he uses it so he can increase the strength and power of his elasticity.

Reading in-between the lines, pretty obvious it's the stronger version.

So it is your interpretation, right?

 

[HPsyche]

So it is your interpretation, right?

Nope, it's factual observation.

Can you show me 1 instance where the strongest character in a crew has shaded Haki, but the leader doesn't?

• You won't find one but go ahead if you can.
• Why exactly is it only the strongest in a crew have it?
• Why is it that Tashigi doesn't have shaded haki, but Smoker does?
• Why does Joker have it, but Lao G or Baby 5 do not?

What's my point here, it's already implying only the strongest can use it.


Can you show me one character capable of using shaded Haki not using it for their ultimate attack?

• You won't find one, but go ahead and try.

Point being it's used for the most powerful attacks by those who have unlocked it.

Sai only got promoted to being leader for using shaded Haki when he was originally only capable of non shaded.

• Clearly not coincidence he got promoted implying the shaded is more powerful.
• Also implying it's a power-up.

Could try to disprove this, but it'd be a losing battle in all honesty.

End of the day, the fact is:

• Shaded Haki is something that one trains (even when they already possess non-shaded Haki) for as we're told by Chinjao.
• It's used for the strongest attacks by those capable of using Shaded Haki.

There's really no other interpretation for what is observed.

There's a reason shaded is only excluded to the strongest and that's because it's a power only the strongest possess. Lesser characters tend to only be limited to non-shaded unless they gain power-ups.

 

[nik87]

Nope.

He became a Haki user after the time-skip.

Not sure why you're lying about basic facts now.

You lose credibility when you have to starting lying, lol.


Lol, obvious they look the same.

Doesn't mean it's visibly black to the OPverse.

Zoro used haki in Alabasta. That is no lie.

 

[HPsyche]

Zoro used haki in Alabasta. That is no lie.

That is a lie bud, lol.

He never used Haki 😂.

Haki makes:

• Swords/Things harder
• and ability to make contact with Logias.

None of that happened in Alabasta 😅.

 

[Rivaille]

Nothing of that indicates there is black CoA; stop twisting the statements.

What exactly I’m twisting?

Your arguments are the following :

1/The black color of haki is a visual cue for the readers to indicate that CoA is used

2/The people in the One Piece world does not see CoA as black

3/We could not see the black color pre-TS because Luffy was not aware of CoA but we can see it now because Luffy is aware of it.
To defend this argument @HPsyche used Rayleigh destroying Cemie’s collar. When we first saw this scene throughout the « oblivious about haki Luffy » eyes we saw that Rayleigh’s hand was white but when the «knowledgeable about haki Luffy » reminds him of this scene we saw the black shading.

My counter-arguments are the following:

1/There is no such statement by Oda

2/Oda created a character named « Zephyr » this character epithet was « black arm Zephyr » because he was a proefficient koka user. Which means that in-universe people were seeing Zephyr’s arms turn black this his epithet.

3/Yes when the « knowledgeable about haki Luffy » remind himself about the Camie scene we saw that Rayleigh’s hand is black but it actually prove that the black color is actually a thing because when the « knowledgeable about haki Luffy » remind himself about his fight with Sentomaru or Rayleigh vs Elephant, the black color is not there :

If in one souvenir the hand turn black and in another souvenir the hand stayed white that means that the black color exist in-universe.

Now if you want to entertain the idea that blades are turn permanently black due to the number of fight they have been, be my guest. But that would just means that Mihawk has more fight in his life than :

-All the Sandai Kitestu users combine
-WB
-Roger
-Shanks
-Oden
-Big Mom
-Fujitora

And had as much fight than a guy who was singlehandely protecting an entire island from the world even tho he has been a Shishibukai for a certain numbers of years.

 

[Rivaille]

Nope, it's factual observation.

Can you show me 1 instance where the strongest character in a crew has shaded Haki, but the leader doesn't?

• You won't find one but go ahead if you can.
• Why exactly is it only the strongest in a crew have it?
• Why is it that Tashigi doesn't have shaded haki, but Smoker does?
• Why does Joker have it, but Lao G or Baby 5 do not?

What's my point here, it's already implying only the strongest can use it.


Can you show me one character capable of using shaded Haki not using it for their ultimate attack?

• You won't find one, but go ahead and try.

Point being it's used for the most powerful attacks by those who have unlocked it.

Sai only got promoted to being leader for using shaded Haki when he was originally only capable of non shaded.

• Clearly not coincidence he got promoted implying the shaded is more powerful.
• Also implying it's a power-up.

Could try to disprove this, but it'd be a losing battle in all honesty.

End of the day, the fact is:

• Shaded Haki is something that one trains (even when they already possess non-shaded Haki) for as we're told by Chinjao.
• It's used for the strongest attacks by those capable of using Shaded Haki.

There's really no other interpretation for what is observed.

There's a reason shaded is only excluded to the strongest and that's because it's a power only the strongest possess. Lesser characters tend to only be limited to non-shaded unless they gain power-ups.

1/ Kaido never used it neither in Dragon form nor in human form

2/
-Jinbe does not have his hands black when he is using « Vagabond drill »
-Cracker does not have his blade black when he is using « Honey Pretzel »
-Law does not have his blade black when he was attacking Vergo with his blade or when he does « Gamma knife »
-Sabo does not koka on his hand when he is doing « Moeru Ryosoken: Kaen Ryo »
-Big Mom does not have Koka on her blade when she used « Ikoku » or « Hahaba »
-Doflamingo does not have his strings black when he used awakening (the official colour version revealed that the tip of the string are purple)

As I said saying that koka is stronger than invisible haki is an interpretation.