Powers & Abilities So does everyone agree Enma not a power up now.

So desperate to say Zoro doesnt need to get stronger by seperating
Everybody and their mothers already stated Zoro is stronger at end of Enma training than he is prior. Yet you're spouting non-sense like people being desperate to say Zoro doesn't need to get stronger??

The reason for the separation has nothing to do with the above, its there to clarify what the actual powerup Zoro received is. It's his Haki not Enma. The clarification is important because Zoro did receive an actual sword powerup when he switched from Yubashiri to Shusui..but that is not the case here.
 
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Zoro got powered up through the use of Shunsui

Zoro is gunna get powered up through the use of Enma (his own words)
Zoro didn't get powered up through the training of Shusui.

The moment he held Shusui his attacks were stronger, there were no negative effects. Shusui furthermore is of better quality when it comes to the actual make up of the sword than compared to Yubashiri.

Enma is of inferior quality than Shusui when it comes to the actual make up of the sword.
Enma furthermore is a determent to a swordsman unless they have a really strong Haki, because it drains the user's haki more than needed.
 
Zoro didn't get powered up through the training of Shusui.

The moment he held Shusui his attacks were stronger, there were no negative effects. Shusui furthermore is of better quality when it comes to the actual make up of the sword than compared to Yubashiri.

Enma is of inferior quality than Shusui when it comes to the actual make up of the sword.
Enma furthermore is a determent to a swordsman unless they have a really strong Haki, because it drains the user's haki more than needed.
*Forces the user to better control or refine their haki so it doesnt drain them completely resulting in better use of haki thus making the wielder stronger.... that's a power up.

Your just nitpicking
 
*Forces the user to better control or refine their haki so it doesnt drain them completely resulting in better use of haki thus making the wielder stronger.... that's a power up.

Your just nitpicking
Just like when you're squatting 300 pounds it forces your muscles to work more, resulting in your muscles getting stronger. The powerup here is the boost in strength, not the barbell & the plates that you squatted.

Just as I said prior. The powerup for Vegata was Super Sayain, not the gravity chamber he used to attain it.
 
Enma doesn't increase any stat. It takes the haki that is already present in the user and exerts it more than the user wants, it doesn't make the haki stronger or give the user any ability he already isn't capable of doing.
huh? its directly linked to Zoro actual haki growth.... U cant achieve the growth without enma since it unique to the blade. Zoro haki directly linked to a multitude of his stats. Why else would oda switch out shusui, that in ur opinion superior with enma otherwise??
Seastone limits at Udon were the direct cause of Kidd & Luffy gaining physical prowess at Udon.
Also unique training method, it can also be group with enma imo. Only the lvl of growth, an impact astronomically smaller.
Weights that put the limit on the body were the direct cause of Zoro gaining physical prowesses all the time.
The Pushups/curls/etc a person does at the gym is the direct cause a person gets better in w.e they were pushing for.
Nope none of these are similar imo. the characters growth isnt actually hind on thoses methods. Enma however was the only way for zoro to make the improvements he did, in the allowed timeframe. No other sword could replica this growth rate.
Rock Lee got faster by using ankle weights, does that make ankle weights the powerup or his speed?
Vegeta attained super sayain by pushing himself in the gravity chamber, does that make the gravity chamber his powerup or super sayain?


What differentiates a training tool from a tool that powers you up is the following (using examples above):
Alot of thoses aren't the same.
- Seastone, they drained Luffy & Kidd's energy, they had to push through it thus exceeding their limits and making gains physically. The seastone here served as a determent to Luffy & Kidd, not as a boost.
- Enma, it drains the haki more than the user wants to a point it causes physical harm to the weilder while providing no actual benefit at all (over shusui that is), Zoro now has to fight against that in order to make his haki better. Enma here is serving as a determent, not as a boost.
Why are u separating them? they go hand an hand, The powerup itself relies completely on the tool. These aren't the cases u mention, here enma specifically why Zoro haki increases. He cant replicate this growth thro any other blade. Enma also automatically uses the properties of flow haki, once trained it arguably enhances that aspect specifically as well.
- Sabo recieved the mera-mera, he gained a boost in attack prowess & logia intangibility. The DF gave him a boost and gave him more choices of attack, it didn't limit him or serve as a determent of any sort. Thus it's a powerup.
- Raid Suit, when the user wears it they get an increase in stats & gain a special ability. There is nothing the raid suit is doing that is restricting or going against Sanji. Thus it's a powerup.
enma gives the user flow haki doesnt it? it forcibly sucks out haki an allows u to use them with range attacks. Once trained it more then likely makes it easier then normal, causing all his stats involved with haki to go up.
In speaking of swords, the following is a powerup:

Yubashiri -> Shusui

Why?

1. Shusui is the better sword in terms of sword quality.
2. Zoro's attacks are stronger with Shusui than with Yubashiri.
3. There is no determent to Zoro when using Shusui at all.
Enma made zoro stronger then shusui, thro a method unique to it. The blades superior imo.
 
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huh? its directly linked to Zoro actually haki growth.... U cant achieve the growth without enma since it unique to the blade. Zoro haki directly link to a multitude of his stats. Why else would oda switch out shusui with enma??
Also unique training methods, it can be be group with enma. Only the lvl of growth, an impact astronomically smaller.
Nope none of these are similar imi. the characters growth isnt actually hind on thoses methods. Enma however was the only way for zoro to make the improvements he did, in the allowed timeframe. No other sword could replica this growth rate.
Alot of thoses aren't the same case.
Why are u separating them? they go hand an hand, The powerup itself relies completely on the tool. These aren't the random case u mention, here enma specifically why Zoro haki increase. He cant replicate this growth thro any other blade. Enma also automatically uses the properties of flow haki, once trained it arguably enhances that aspect specifically as well.
enma gives the user flow haki doesnt it? it forcibly sucks out haki an allows u to use them with range attacks. Once trained it more then likely makes it easier then normal, causing all his stats involved with haki to go up.

Enma made zoro stronger then shusui, thro a method unique to it. The blades superior imo.
Switching of Shusui with Enma is a whole different discussion, that would have us discuss about Ryuuma/Oden/etc. Since discussing that has nothing to do with this, we'll refrain from going into it.

- Gravity chamber was the only way Vegeta could attain super sayain during that time in the allowed time period.
- Ankle weights were the only way Rock Lee could increase his speed in the allowed time period.
- Seastone was the only thing there for Luffy that would increase his physical prowess in the allowed time period.
- Lifting weights was the only there for Zoro that would increase his physical prowess in the allowed time period.

So gravity chamber, ankle weights, seastone, lifting weights all = powerups.

Why am I separating them? I'm not separating them, they already are separate.

"Enma also automatically uses the properties of flow haki", So how does this boost zoro? Zoro's been capable of putting Haki into his swords for a while. Has it been shown that Zoro struggles with putting Haki into his weapons, something even fodder Kuja pirates can do? Nope. You're telling me an ability that random fodders at Amazon lilly are capable of is a boost to Zoro?

"Allows you to use them with ranged attacks", If a swordsman can't do ranged attacks they can't use that part of it. And if a swordsman is strong enough to wield Enma..then that means they already are capable of using Haki with ranged attacks, otherwise Enma would just kill the wielder due to Haki drain.


So Enma acting as a leech to Zoro's haki = powerup? I'm sorry but I fail to understand this.

Enma made Zoro stronger than Shusui? Sorry but that's simply not the reality. Zoro is making haki control better in order to control Enma, that is not Enma making Zoro's haki control better.

Shusui didn't require mastery in order to form stronger attacks than Yabashuri. That was a powerup of a sword.
Enma requires mastery over it in order for Zoro to be an effective of a fighter that he is with Shusui. That's not a powerup of a sword.

As for which is the superior sword, there's not much to do with opinion. Both are in the same classification in terms of sword quality/material. We then find out a person can take the sword to another level by making it a black blade, Shusui is already a black blade.. thus it's a superior sword than Enma.

Pre-Enma training Zoro w/Enma = Gets his ass kicked by Shusui Zoro, as enma zoro would be struggling with control
Post training Zoro w/Enma = Loses or draws to post training Shusui Zoro, due to Shusui being of higher quality
^ No sword boost there

vs

Zoro w/Yabashuri = Gets his ass kicked by Shusui Zoro, because Shusui Zoro produces stronger attacks.
^ sword boost here

PS: Enma isn't the only way Zoro could've gotten stronger in Haki. Oda could've simply had Zoro & Luffy fight each other in order to improve their Haki, the fight focusing on each of them focusing on improving the specific aspect of Haki or have Zoro do a special training like Luffy to do it. Enma is simply one of the ways that Oda decided to use to make Zoro improve his Haki.
 
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Oh I see. Internal damage haki requires mastery over it in order for Luffy to be an effective fighter than he is with regular CoA. So it's not a power up for Luffy!

I get it now. Thanks

Why don't you compare Zoro's Haki to Luffy's Haki..since it's Zoro's Haki that's getting stronger.. instead of comparing Luffy's Haki to Zoro's sword..
 
Your right... it is the stupidest thing ever heard. 100% correct. So why did you say it? Its stupid
Except I didn't say it, and you just made it up.

My statement: Enma, a physical weapon that is a determent to Zoro, requires mastering in order to be effective as he is with the sword he already had before.

Your comprehension: Luffy's internal Haki requires mastery in order for him to be an effective of a fighter that he is with normal CoA.


So let's see here what you did:

- You compared mastery of 1 element of Haki, to a sword an object.
- You didn't compare Zoro's Haki to Luffy's Haki, even though those are the two things getting stronger here..
- You then tried to put Advanced CoA & normal CoA against each other, thinking it would be the same as Enma vs Shusui.. without realzing that AdvancedCoA isn't possible without using normal CoA.. where as one can wield Enma without Shusui and wield Shusui without Enma.


Bravo man.
 
Except I didn't say it, and you just made it up showing your weak reading comprehension..

My statement: Enma, a physical weapon that is a determent to Zoro, requires mastering in order to be effective as he is with the sword he already had before.

Your comprehension: Luffy's internal Haki requires mastery in order for him to be an effective of a fighter that he is with normal CoA.


So let's see here what you did:

- You compared mastery of 1 element of Haki, to a sword an object.
- You didn't compare Zoro's Haki to Luffy's Haki, even though those are the two things getting stronger here..
- You then tried to put Advanced CoA & normal CoA against each other, thinking it would be the same as Enma vs Shusui.. without realzing that AdvancedCoA isn't possible without normal CoA.. where as one can wield Enma without Shusui and wield Shusui without Enma.


Bravo man.
I literally used your own logic to prove why your wrong lol and it clearly triggered you.
 
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