Future Events Sanji vs Kizaru won't happen

[Fn Lucci]

In response to the OP:

The "YC2" thing is a vague title pending the defeat of Queen. Should that happen, well, it's not like Sanji won't take on a higher level opponent down the road. At this point in the series we probably have room enough for three major arcs, maybe even some kinda timeskip.

FS is great but not overpowered. Luffy still got smashed in one hit by Kaido and Katakuri is unlikely to ever compete with a Yonko. Sanji hastily learning it would be unlikely to compensate for the difference in speed.

BUT, when it comes to CoO, it's also very possible that Kizaru can not completely compensate for invisibility. We have not seen observation so good that it compensates for not being able to see a decently strong opponent. Maybe Fujitora but he'd be an exception given that he doesn't use his eyes at all and would then apply it at 100%. Unless you have the darkness fruit so far I think getting Kizaru to slow down is a much better option than actually dealing with his speed.

On top of that, his power being a DF means it doesn't fit the rules of science. Crocodile was weak against water on contact, Ener couldn't affect rubber, maybe Kizaru struggles with the light reflection.

As for the admirals, it's pretty likely that Akainu is just a stronger opponent overall. You might assume they're even because they used to have the same rank, but that doesn't have to be true. Ultimately he did in fact win against Kuzan, remember.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Drake isn't fighting SHs, rather he would takin down the scum pirates and solidify his spot for an Admiral position in New World where WG gets taken down, and the New Marines will be righteous one.

Why do you(and other people as well) assume that just because a marine is a good guy, they will automatically become best friends with the SHs and never oppose them in any way. This is 100% false and goes against everything we have been shown.

Fujitora was ready to kill Luffy. Despite all his fanboyism, Coby literally admitted that he'd have to kill Luffy and attempted to attack him during marineford. Garp stood in Luffy's way when he was trying to save Ace.

almost all Marines acknowledge their duty to fight pirates.

he hasn't shown much to be on same level or be above of what your mind is trying to push. Just saying.

How can you say this. the very fact that he is a supernova already gives him better portrayal than Sanji. We saw how well sanji did in a clash against him. Sanji threw a kick, it did nothing. Sanji tried to use DJ, and Drake sends him flying with his tail.

Why is there a burden of proof for drake to show that he is on par with sanji when sanji came out on the losing end of their clash?

In any case, sanji will never fight kizaru and win. The marine arc will be directly after wano kuni as something happened to sabo during reverie and Luffy will need to save him. At this point, there is absolutely nothing sanji could do to get to Kizaru's level by then and its far more realistic to see him taking on drake than a man who's supposed to rival the yonko in strength.

Sanji also won't fight Kizaru at EoS because the main enemies of EoS will be Imu and the gorosei. It will be Luffy vs Imu(possibly with the help of others), Zoro vs the gandhi gorosei, and Sanji vs some other gorosei. Where do you see Kizaru falling in this equation?

He seems irrelevant tbh. Hence I think its likely that blackbeard will kill him and give his DF to burgess or some other of his commanders.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

How is his swordmanship inferior?
He freakingly matched Rayleigh who's a great swordman

Its not that Kizaru isn't a swordsman. Its that his swordsmanship is inferior to every other ability he has. His main style revolves around laser kicks and laser beams. He used his light sword in ONE situation, specifically in a fight where he had to restrain his stronger, high DC attacks, because civilians were around.

This is actually the opposite for Big Mom, who has shown FAR more DC with her sword than without it. And BM almost always picks up her sword whenever she gets serious. In fact when she was headed to wano kuni, the only homie she brought with her was Napoleon.

How can you tell me that Big Mom is not a swordsman when she has shown better swordsman feats than 99% of other swordsman(including zoro) and fought on par with Kaido using nothing else but her sword for several days?

You are the one to prove BM is a swordman

You dont just become swordman when you are in your 40s and already top tier by the time.

Did BM need napoleon to be Yonko or top tier? No. No. No.
Was BM already great before napoleon ? Yes she SURVIVED FOUGHT god valley without napoleon. She built her empire without it, her hype revolve around her freak status and 2 main homies not swordmanship!
Was she trained in swordmanship? Nope
Did she pick up the sword/swirdmanship as a child? Nope

BM doesn't revolve around swordmanship.
She fought with napoleon coz Kaido used his weapons. she adapts to her opponents fighting style. That's why she used her arms vs g4 not homies.
She's like Kizaru Kata WB they use weapons just but they aren't dependant on it. .

What Prometheus or Zeus did, napoleon wouldn't. The 2 have better DC Lethality.
Napoleon DC can kill or destroy the while of tree homie while Prometheus did.

You arent a swordman coz you used a sword once or many times but rather if you depend it to be great/amazing
BM became and is top tier without her sword

There isnt a statement of BM kizaru being swordmen despite Kizaru training and being skilled

 

[Monkey D Theories]

How is his swordmanship inferior?
He freakingly matched Rayleigh who's a great swordman

yes but he could blow up entire towns with his kicks at full power

You dont just become swordman when you are in your 40s and already top tier by the time.

Did BM need napoleon to be Yonko or top tier? No. No. No.
Was BM already great before napoleon ? Yes she SURVIVED FOUGHT god valley without napoleon. She built her empire without it, her hype revolve around her freak status and 2 main homies not swordmanship!
Was she trained in swordmanship? Nope
Did she pick up the sword/swirdmanship as a child? Nope

BM doesn't revolve around swordmanship.

This doesn't change the fact that napoleon is a major source of her power and she uses it almost every single time she gets serious. Yes she has other homies, but we know exactly how she uses them when she gets serious. She uses zeus for mobility/flight and she uses prometheus to enhance her swordsmanship by allowing her to send fire-infused slashes.

You arent a swordman coz you used a sword once or many times but rather if you depend it to be great/amazing
BM became and is top tier without her sword

which means nothing because the difference between a high tier and a top tier is astronomical. Shanks could probably beat Katakuri with a gun.

Big Mom is surely stronger than any YC1 without her sword, but she clearly needs her sword if she wants to be on par with any of the yonko. Napoleon is a huge part of her strength.

She fought with napoleon coz Kaido used his weapons. she adapts to her opponents fighting style. That's why she used her arms vs g4 not homies.

The reason she didn't use napoleon against G4 is because if she did, Luffy would have lost his arm.

 

[True God Moe]

How can you say this. the very fact that he is a supernova already gives him better portrayal than Sanji. We saw how well sanji did in a clash against him. Sanji threw a kick, it did nothing. Sanji tried to use DJ, and Drake sends him flying with his tail.

Why is there a burden of proof for drake to show that he is on par with sanji when sanji came out on the losing end of their clash?

In any case, sanji will never fight kizaru and win. The marine arc will be directly after wano kuni as something happened to sabo during reverie and Luffy will need to save him. At this point, there is absolutely nothing sanji could do to get to Kizaru's level by then and its far more realistic to see him taking on drake than a man who's supposed to rival the yonko in strength.

Sanji also won't fight Kizaru at EoS because the main enemies of EoS will be Imu and the gorosei. It will be Luffy vs Imu(possibly with the help of others), Zoro vs the gandhi gorosei, and Sanji vs some other gorosei. Where do you see Kizaru falling in this equation?

He seems irrelevant tbh. Hence I think its likely that blackbeard will kill him and give his DF to burgess or some other of his commanders.

Not really as their portrayals been shown different and Sanji is more above him honestly. Also don't use kick where he use Drake as a stepping stool to take Toko out of the fight before going back in. Sanji can back fighting fine and tanking one attack. He is good for a good fight, but not overall in the end. He not someone Sanji will have ongoing fighting with as doesn't make sense.

Kizaru is someone destined to face Strawhats especially Sanji as he is only one with speed to keep up with him. I don't see Drake being apart of enemy side doing that much damage to them as he isn't going to be on level of the enemies they be facing. Drake won't be that far deep, but I can see his potential, but not in future arcs him and Sanji have more fights. At best this right here, but Sanji going after someone stronger than him to beat and onward to the rest.

 

[Jo_Ndule]

yes but he could blow up entire towns with his kicks at full power


This doesn't change the fact that napoleon is a major source of her power and she uses it almost every single time she gets serious. Yes she has other homies, but we know exactly how she uses them when she gets serious. She uses zeus for mobility/flight and she uses prometheus to enhance her swordsmanship by allowing her to send fire-infused slashes.


which means nothing because the difference between a high tier and a top tier is astronomical. Shanks could probably beat Katakuri with a gun.

Big Mom is surely stronger than any YC1 without her sword, but she clearly needs her sword if she wants to be on par with any of the yonko. Napoleon is a huge part of her strength.


The reason she didn't use napoleon against G4 is because if she did, Luffy would have lost his arm.

She doesn't need napoleon to be on par with other Yonko.

"Shanks could beat kata with a gun" bruh? Is Shanks now Kizaru/BM to still be skilled and powerful in many fighting styles?

I told you already
Kizaru has more credible infos to be Swirdman than BM
All the swordmen so far were trained in swordmanship or on their own, picked up swordmanship as kid/teen/ 20s! They depend on swordmanship/swords to be what they are.

Something BM doesn't fit. BM major source of power is her own physical strength not napoleon
Her 2 main homies are more hyped than napoleon.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

Why do you(and other people as well) assume that just because a marine is a good guy, they will automatically become best friends with the SHs and never oppose them in any way. This is 100% false and goes against everything we have been shown.

Don't change the point of our discussion, as a Marine obviously their job is to fight pirates, no matter if they are against or with WG, since Pirates are their enemies at the end of the day. I never claimed that.

Instead Answer to this was in the reply you didn't quote. If Drake go against SHs, he is bound to get defeated, and a defeated person isn't gonna become an Admiral.

I repeat i see Drake being part of new Marines after WG gets taken down, and for that to happen he needs to have good feats, and there won't just be SHs they would be fighting so he can earn those against someone else, while scum Marines will get defeated. Oda mostly make Luffy Antagonist bad or scum, to make his fights interesting.

 

[Perun]

I definitely see him beating a an admiral at end of series,the question is which one.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

She doesn't need napoleon to be on par with other Yonko.

"Shanks could beat kata with a gun" bruh? Is Shanks now Kizaru/BM to still be skilled and powerful in many fighting styles?

I told you already
Kizaru has more credible infos to be Swirdman than BM
All the swordmen so far were trained in swordmanship or on their own, picked up swordmanship as kid/teen/ 20s! They depend on swordmanship/swords to be what they are.

Something BM doesn't fit. BM major source of power is her own physical strength not napoleon
Her 2 main homies are more hyped than napoleon.

The fuck are you talking about, she literally knows a style of swordsmanship.
She uses the same style of swordsmanship as the giants of elbaf

Are you seriously going to tell me that BM isn't going to be significantly weaker if she doesn't have access to an entire skillset of swordmanship that she knows? Especially given how much DC her sword attacks have shown.

Big Mom has shown one of the best swordsman feats in the series, only surpassed by the likes of Mihawk, and yet you're going to tell me that she isn't a swordsman because she doesn't fit inside your narrow, ill defined, version of what a swordsman should be

Instead Answer to this was in the reply you didn't quote. If Drake go against SHs, he is bound to get defeated, and a defeated person isn't gonna become an Admiral.

This makes no sense. Drake is one of the strongest marines outside of the admirals. Like what are they going to do, give the nomination for admiral to Fullbody because Drake lost to Sanji?

 

[Xione]

He won't be Admiral lvl by the time he face Sanji, that more EOS after many years, not this stage. Best one is defeating old ones to prove he stronger and surpass generation more, not Drake who we have no idea his full power is, but it isn't YC lvl or at least not that deep.

Drake and Coby aren't. Smoker and Hina are more like Garp and Sengoku, Coby at best is more Aokiji, but no Garp.

1. Drake is part of the Worst Generation
2. Drake is the leader of the SWORD division of the marines

These two things alone give him better potential for the future than Sanji. So if you have Sanji facing up against top tiers by EoS, Drake will be up there to.

If he wasn't the leader of the SWORD division of the marines, then you might be right.

 

[Xione]

Its not that Kizaru isn't a swordsman. Its that his swordsmanship is inferior to every other ability he has. His main style revolves around laser kicks and laser beams. He used his light sword in ONE situation, specifically in a fight where he had to restrain his stronger, high DC attacks, because civilians were around.

1. There were no civilians around Kizaru vs Rayleigh, it was a nearly complete barren place.
2. Nothing about him worrying about the destruction of Sabody was mentioned when using the sword. Unlike Sakazuki/WB exchanged where Sakazuki expresses a concern for the destruction of Marineford resulting from Whitebeard's wild attacks.
3. Kizaru had no choice but to use the sword, his kicks wouldn't have done shit against Rayleigh, they've only ever been used for scrubs that he doesn't need to try against. Just like Roronoa uses 1-sword style or 2-sword style against scrubs he doesn't need to try against.
4. Lasers would've been easily deflected by the Dark King, so they're essentially useless against him.

 

[True God Moe]

1. Drake is part of the Worst Generation
2. Drake is the leader of the SWORD division of the marines

These two things alone give him better potential for the future than Sanji. So if you have Sanji facing up against top tiers by EoS, Drake will be up there to.

If he wasn't the leader of the SWORD division of the marines, then you might be right.

He won't be in Admiral lvl until years later. He not going to power up and be stronger than future foes Sanji will face. No disrespect to Drake, he just not the one honestly.

 

[Rmstorm]

In response to the OP:

The "YC2" thing is a vague title pending the defeat of Queen. Should that happen, well, it's not like Sanji won't take on a higher level opponent down the road. At this point in the series we probably have room enough for three major arcs, maybe even some kinda timeskip.

FS is great but not overpowered. Luffy still got smashed in one hit by Kaido and Katakuri is unlikely to ever compete with a Yonko. Sanji hastily learning it would be unlikely to compensate for the difference in speed.

BUT, when it comes to CoO, it's also very possible that Kizaru can not completely compensate for invisibility. We have not seen observation so good that it compensates for not being able to see a decently strong opponent. Maybe Fujitora but he'd be an exception given that he doesn't use his eyes at all and would then apply it at 100%. Unless you have the darkness fruit so far I think getting Kizaru to slow down is a much better option than actually dealing with his speed.

On top of that, his power being a DF means it doesn't fit the rules of science. Crocodile was weak against water on contact, Ener couldn't affect rubber, maybe Kizaru struggles with the light reflection.

As for the admirals, it's pretty likely that Akainu is just a stronger opponent overall. You might assume they're even because they used to have the same rank, but that doesn't have to be true. Ultimately he did in fact win against Kuzan, remember.

Luffy never used observation haki against Kaido due to not being calm after thinking his crewmates were dead. Reax chapter 884, observation haki only works when you are calm.

 

[Jrus]

Zoro and Sanji don't need to fight the admirals. Luffy is the only one who needs surpass the admirals, mainly because of what Chinjao said.

 

[Jackteo]

I think Zoro and Sanji are going to fight Kizaru together.
After that they will defeat the blonde gorosei and Gandhi

 

[Monkey D Theories]

1. There were no civilians around Kizaru vs Rayleigh, it was a nearly complete barren place.
2. Nothing about him worrying about the destruction of Sabody was mentioned when using the sword. Unlike Sakazuki/WB exchanged where Sakazuki expresses a concern for the destruction of Marineford resulting from Whitebeard's wild attacks.
3. Kizaru had no choice but to use the sword, his kicks wouldn't have done shit against Rayleigh, they've only ever been used for scrubs that he doesn't need to try against. Just like Roronoa uses 1-sword style or 2-sword style against scrubs he doesn't need to try against.
4. Lasers would've been easily deflected by the Dark King, so they're essentially useless against him.

There was that one scene where Kizaru launched a kick at some scrub pirates and ended up toppling one of the sabaody trees. he then said that he needed to control his power.

anyways I highly doubt that Kizaru's light speed kicks, which have shown city level DC at max power, would have no effect on rayleigh

 

[Monkey D Theories]

He won't be in Admiral lvl until years later. He not going to power up and be stronger than future foes Sanji will face. No disrespect to Drake, he just not the one honestly.

Spoiler

Where do you see Sanji's face in this spread?

For someone like Luffy, It makes sense why he is so far ahead of the supernova. he's the successor to roger. Even Zoro to some extent. But Sanji? Luffy's cook? The guy who's biggest dream is to find a sea with different fish in it?

I see no reason why he should grow exponentially stronger than his contemporaries who have always had better portrayal than him.

Coby is the garp of the new era. He was personally trained by garp for over two years, has no DF just like garp, and is already known as a hero. Drake is Coby's zoan weilding superior.

When you also take into consideration he's one of the strongest marines outside of the admirals, its pretty clear that he is the sengoku of the new era.

 

[Finalbeta]

It might even occur but Sanji is never defeating him

Heck I fail to see who can do that except for EoS BB due to DF clear advantage and immense raw strenght

 

[Xione]

He won't be in Admiral lvl until years later. He not going to power up and be stronger than future foes Sanji will face. No disrespect to Drake, he just not the one honestly.

So you're saying Sanji can become admiral lvl by EoS, but a guy who by portrayal has the same if not more potential than him, can't?

 

[uyuu]

how about Luffy? i want future Luffy to personally beat Kizaru because the admiral swatted all of his nakama back then in Sabaody. Especially since Kizaru is a speedy type, and it's going to be a battle of speed and reaction, then explosive brawl like Luffy vs Lucci. i just want Luffy to erase the smugness off the admiral's face.

Zoro can handle Akainu, i care quite a bit less about Luffy beating Akainu.