[FNZ] Role Madness Breaking Bad Role Madness

[Doddsy]

These?


Well, I think that's fair. But as I said, usually if Ekko and Ratchet clash like this, Ratchet is Town and Ekko's scum. So going by meta I Town read Ratchet.

So your entire basis for ratchet as town is off meta when ekko and ratchet argue all game like this?

Can anyone else confirm this is common?

 

[Pot Goblin]

if he is a criminal would he be mafia or town? idk flavor at all so im not sure how the game would be set up tbh

i think walter is the main character(?) but i think he is bad overall so would that make him scum? im so confused lol

Literally everyone is a criminal in BB lol
It's more about the level of evil things they do.

I've been thinkin about it and I have a hunch that there's 8 mafia (potentially multiball).

They would consist of:
Gus Fring
Victor
Tyrus
Hector Salamanca
Tuco Salamanca
The Twin Salamancas (1 role as that's their thing)
Jack
Todd

If multiball, Gus and Hector would be the GFs. Jack and Todd would be a 2 person team.

I do think Walter would be an indie here as he's the perfect definition of someone who's mostly out for himself.

All speculation of course.

In terms of Badger, if you take out the whole selling meth thing he's pretty much on the lighter side of things. Very naive which is why I think it does make sense flavor wise for him to have an ability like we just seen.

 

[Flower]

So your entire basis for ratchet as town is off meta when ekko and ratchet argue all game like this?

Can anyone else confirm this is common?

Pretty much.

 

[Doddsy]

I will add, regardless of whether or not that turns out to be accurate meta, I am not a big fan of agreeing that ratchet has contradicted himself but ignoring it for the meta reasoning given

 

[hime]

i am not sure how u got that conclusion, i understood it very differently - seemed clear to me they implied having no role, specially when they said u didnt get a role too?

a vanilla is actually a role. but they heavily implied lack of a role, not that they got a role which is vanilla, if that makes sense.

did u get a chance to catch up, town mascot hime san

i got to that conclusion mainly after the confirmation post that flowa posted

i didnt catch up, ill catch up during the np, its going to take too much of my time rn and id rather participate and keep up with the current flow of things

will get to the iso before the dp ends @Dragomir probs wont happen tonight tbh


on a different note, can u explain ur suspicion against flowa and ratchet? u think both of them r scummates?

 

[Indigo]

Baki
Dr professor
Doctor indigo
Knight of the sea
Ekko
Flower

guys just call me Indigo or Pizza, to not confuse with Doc that everyone knows already

 

[Indigo]

Literally everyone is a criminal in BB lol
It's more about the level of evil things they do.

I've been thinkin about it and I have a hunch that there's 8 mafia (potentially multiball).

They would consist of:
Gus Fring
Victor
Tyrus
Hector Salamanca
Tuco Salamanca
The Twin Salamancas (1 role as that's their thing)
Jack
Todd

If multiball, Gus and Hector would be the GFs. Jack and Todd would be a 2 person team.

I do think Walter would be an indie here as he's the perfect definition of someone who's mostly out for himself.

All speculation of course.

In terms of Badger, if you take out the whole selling meth thing he's pretty much on the lighter side of things. Very naive which is why I think it does make sense flavor wise for him to have an ability like we just seen.

I think Walter would be a conversion type thing, after some event or some time

he goes from Town to Scum

 

[hime]

Everyone is mostly bad in this game including the cops in a way.
Depends on who you are supporting...

Cartel are the real baddies.
There are the Mexican cartel and the American one.

Literally everyone is a criminal in BB lol
It's more about the level of evil things they do.

I've been thinkin about it and I have a hunch that there's 8 mafia (potentially multiball).

They would consist of:
Gus Fring
Victor
Tyrus
Hector Salamanca
Tuco Salamanca
The Twin Salamancas (1 role as that's their thing)
Jack
Todd

If multiball, Gus and Hector would be the GFs. Jack and Todd would be a 2 person team.

I do think Walter would be an indie here as he's the perfect definition of someone who's mostly out for himself.

All speculation of course.

In terms of Badger, if you take out the whole selling meth thing he's pretty much on the lighter side of things. Very naive which is why I think it does make sense flavor wise for him to have an ability like we just seen.

oh ok, ty for the explanations

 

[Emil]

i got to that conclusion mainly after the confirmation post that flowa posted

i didnt catch up, ill catch up during the np, its going to take too much of my time rn and id rather participate and keep up with the current flow of things

will get to the iso before the dp ends @Dragomir probs wont happen tonight tbh


on a different note, can u explain ur suspicion against flowa and ratchet? u think both of them r scummates?

i think they r individually scummy. whether teammates or not is up for debate

probably better if u read their posts directly. flowa's replies to everyone suspecting her has been bad / follows dismissive attitude. it gave the impression that she had a strong claim that will automatically clear her... well... she didnt. unless she knew for fact that she will be masoned with a player, or started in the mason. thats probably only way she can afford to play this purposely scummy, which is still unacceptable and not fruitful play. there is a limit to how much her claim can carry her. flower right now is shading other players, but the moment they turn an eye to her, she cowers away. faked/forced confidence.

u probably gotta just read for ratchet. tl;dr it started from these posts of his (shown below), who he later on elaborated were meant for discussion, which i didnt agree with because they were meaningless setup spec at the time. it took off from there when he accused me of reaching a conclusion by calling him scum then solving him backward, something he considers a scum tell of mine, which he is unable to prove until now from the thread or from my past games, which tells me his read is not genuine. also during our exchange i felt like he has been tmi'ing me as town few times, in addition to the overly dismissive attitude towards my questions. i think overall he handled my slot pretty poorly and took an early gambit that failed, and now hes taking the slow approach to salvage his position.

I think it's interesting that the flavour savvy players have different opinions on who may be town or scum. Possibly indicates some flavour trickery, or that some of the disagreement comes from scum not aware town flavour.

I'm not so sure that explains a complete disparity of opinion, though. Especially because everyone knows their own character.

 

[Kagu Nyan]

I think this Flower slot needs to be analysed first before proceeding with anything. It’s honestly very distracting and I’m liking her lesser and lesser with each post. Don’t like her claim either. It could very well be a fake.

vote lynch flower

It will resolve a lot of people:

1. Ratchet - didn’t seem to me as bad at first with his reaction test and everything. He was generating meaningful discussion but little did I know his reaction test subject - (which flower failed badly because Ratchet himself said that her reactions were bad) will later on become his partner and they will team up. I might have missed the reasons which Ratchet gave regarding this because I can remember him questioning a few people about their reactions but never really going back to Flower’s reactions. Anyways, Ratchet is allowing himself to be latched onto by a player who is highly suspicious now and taking every decision together and defending her openly.


2. Ekko - been called out as scummy by both flower and ratchet and some people also believe that Ratchet and ekko might be a scum team who are pretending to be fighting.

Figuring out Flower will also give us clarity regarding others like Ultra, SoulKiller, Gram, Adam, Indigo, Pein and BakiDou.

Ultra is someone who’s being targeted by both ratchet and flower so I don’t think they could be aligned.

SoulKiller has been defending flower to some extent

There was some skirmish with Adam regarding the Gram thing which I haven’t yet caught up on.

Gram was also voting for flower and drew a lot of heat.

The rest of the dude bros like Indigo, Pero, Pein and BakiDou. Don’t think all of these are scum but some of them could be given flower is openly declaring how she likes them and they are her town reads so not sure if she’s openly buddying or just dragging them down with her.

 

[Dragomir]

I don't appreciate this fishing rn.

Of course, I'm going to fish. I strongly suspect you and all of sudden you and Pein became all buddy-buddy out of nowhere. Think I'ma just let that slide? That demands some questioning.

 

[Dragomir]

Okay I read till page 31. Will read more when will get time.





So far I have few takes.





1) Ratchet vs Ekko

I have two takes on this



A) Both are town -

Ratchet town meta initially is to get reactions and spur discussions. He likes to move things forward.



Ekko as town is more bold and decisive.



I have noticed that both were striking their town meta here.



B)Both are scums but team-mates. This is less likely scenario but I felt I have to factor in this because



Tbh, one thing which struck me odd about their arguments is the "topic". I didn't feel the topic on which they were arguing warranted to be stretched so long. Yet, it did and both were not willing to let it go



Could be that both have some ego clash happening but it could also be distancing attempt as team-mates.







I will see how the their argument further builds as I will read more.



2)Fuji - I am not liking him.



His reaction to Ratchet reaction testing flowa was poor. It came out as defensive to me.



I also didn't like how he casted vote on pero.



His reasoning doesn't make sense to me.

Ya pero voted pot and was talking about him but it was early D0 and there is no way pero would try to setup pot so early.


Second, was there any need for pero to setup pot? I mean pot rolled scum back to back and everyone knows this so there is absolutely no need for pero to put vote on pot to highlight this. Yet pero did.

It was more like pero having fun.



Yet, fuji casted vote on him and pushed sus.



His reasoning to put vote on pero looks weak + along with his bad reaction to ratchet reaction testing flowa.





3) Gram - i didn't notice much of him except one thing - when he asked fuji why he voted pero and after Fuji gave this explanation



And, gram immediately voted pero. This is in total contrast of gram in last game when he was town.



4)Cal - he is more engaging and hitting his town meta


5)Flowa - aside from her a bit defensive reaction to ratchet reaction testing her there is nothing much that irks bad so far

I won't take her reaction as scummy because last game she came out as defensive when I pushed her as witch and it turned out I was wrong and she wasn't witch and was town too lol


6) Nana - looking bold and seem to having fun. Not hesitating to come forward with scum reads so leaning town.

Why do you have so many spaces?

 

[Dragomir]

I assume modkills are at play again.
And maybe flower is immune to it since its part of the role.

If you would be mod-killed for claiming that would mean claiming isn't allowed, so the punishment can't be mod-kill or mod-anything, cause again, that means claiming isn't allowed.

 

[Emil]

the fact that ratchet immediately tried to pin me to a generic town trait that is NAI for me, and tried to sell it as scum indicative tells me hes not being genuine. that thought was too rushed and not rational town ratchet thought.

in all the the games hes been town, he never actually brings up this point, despite me playing worst and actually displaying the lack of this trait. in this game, it seems that ratchet's replies around how our interaction started were legit pre written. no matter what i say, he was going to bring this town trait analogy.

if anyone has reached conclusion first before solving, its actually him. this response couldnt have been any more pre-written, because it does not pretrain to anything i've done this game. its pure fantasy. read this interaction:

you thought that was a good angle to start discussion from?i objectively have no issue with the topic as much as i do with the intention

my response to him saying his post was for discussion. he immediately goes on next and assumes that i have taken a conclusion, when i really have not

Well you can't really establish the intention from what is ultimately NAI contribution. Your process seems to involve reaching a conclusion before getting to that based on the evidence in thread, and then working backwards to find the evidence.

the bolded makes no sense. it never happened. evidenced by my previous post that he quoted. i was still in the process of solving / asking him questions. his answer was pre written, and so is his next post

yea isnt that the whole purpose of the interaction? to reach a conclusion not leave it unsolved. i am reaching a conclusion that says you skoom and ur responses arent helping me see otherwise

clearly stating that i am reaching a conclusion, in the present tense. i have not reached one yet, and i tell him that his responses arent helping. there is no way town ratchet reads this post and immediately assumes i have *reached a conclusion*

You've missed my point. I'm saying you've reached your conclusion first, which is more characteristic of an agenda, rather than letting the vidence guide you to a conclusion.

bolded is completely untrue, as evidenced by my 2 posts above it that he quoted

where is this coming from even
i still havent yet reached a full conclusion as clearly outlined in the post you quoted
perhaps ur already admitting after a few prods fufufu

i reply to him clearly stating i have not yet reached my conclusion, which he obviously ignores, because his answer is pre written. he is flowing in one direction. he didnt even process the post. this is his response:

What does "full" have to do with it? I'm accusing you of having failed to demonstrate a natural thought process in our interaction. Allow me to demonstrate. As Town, you start from point A, and the line between A and B is the evidence you amass. B is the conclusion. I'm saying you started at B, and you're now working backwards to present your process as though you actually started from A.

Town = A > B
You = B > A

and later on this is where i reach my conclusion (read it all, or bolded atleast):

it's really not. saying - "you are skoom" really has no value alone. it's like a blind vote. what you do with it afterwards is what gives it the value or agenda that you so speak of and still continuously fail to provide evidence for.

townies make conclusions or hasty decisions all the time. they see a scummy post, they can call it out instantly by saying such person is scum, and then lay out the facts/evidence/iso afterwards. this in itself is not scummy behavior. you are muddying the line between scummy/towny conclusion driven play, which again brings me to my point - my post is the most NAI shite ever, however, you somehow managed to convince yourself OR trying to convince us that it is actually scum driven - this i do not approve of.

I have still yet to confirm or deny that i actually follow that process or not. I don't go around thinking about it when I am scum reading players. my play comes naturally/instinctively/reactively etc... i may follow it in some instances, and break it in another. it's not a metric of anything, specially when you are unable to prove me breaking it or following it via my threadplay this game. i am asking you again, and probably for the last time before i draw my final conclusion - do you think me saying "you are scum" was me actually seriously reaching a conclusion that you are indeed scum?

i asked him a question here. a clear question. and stated that my final conclusion will depend on the answer. here is his answer was:

This really isn't important Ekko, I've gotten what I wanted out of this conversation. I think there is a lot of interesting discussion around this that you need to pay attention to - in particular Pero's commentary, and also the several drive-bys we've seen around it.

the whole thing is now not important. instead, deflects me into other discussion. at that point i've drawn my final conclusion. and it says ratchet is scum.

to whoever asked me/cares

@hime @Dragomir @Doddsy @T-Pein™ @Dr_Professor83 @Adam 🍎 @Ultra @Grammaton @RippedCal @DoctorIndigo @Peroroncino etc..

 

[Dragomir]

@T-Pein™ say it to me loud and clear, what is this town read of yours on Flowa based on? You don't have to reveal anything about your role but what the hell is going on here. I'm already ruling out masons based on your reaction to the write-up, so I don't wanna hear about that.

 

[Dragomir]

seems heavily implied tbh

Do you trust it?

 

[Dragomir]

Not convinced at all right now by Flower's claim. Her play is just sounding scummier and scummier to me. Only thing that's barely going in her favor is whatever's going up with her and Pein. I can kinda deduce what's going on a bit based on what Indigo told me about Badger but the way they've both been approaching it is just weird. Not to mention, the write-up doesn't look real.

 

[Emil]

Do you trust it?

i dont think tpein has been towny enough for my liking for me to trust it tbh

 

[Emil]

if they have fake flips / death millers, they could pull of a gambit like faking masons comfortably, in fact its a decent play when u have a death miller as mafia, because their town flip is very good for you

i still encourage solving tpein/flowa by threadplay - in which they r both currently displaying serious lack of quality posts

 

[Emil]

Not convinced at all right now by Flower's claim. Her play is just sounding scummier and scummier to me. Only thing that's barely going in her favor is whatever's going up with her and Pein. I can kinda deduce what's going on a bit based on what Indigo told me about Badger but the way they've both been approaching it is just weird. Not to mention, the write-up doesn't look real.

even if the WU was real, the play still doesnt mate sense. at best shes a townie wasting town's time, which is still anti town by definition