General & Others Some people spent an entire decade arguing that the balance is Marine HQ + 7 Shichi = 1 emperor crew

[Robin swan]

Another insecure Ladmiral fanboy tagging people left and right with their pathetic argument just because Greenbitch attacked deathbed defeated prisoner commanders.


Keep the delusion intact at the end of arc where Greenbitch's shit is fucked up.

Hero Garp: ''Now is an especially bad time. Do you want the Navy to take on two legends at the same time?!''
--- Chapter 501

Garp said The Larines CAN'T HANDLE 1 Yonko + Old Rayleigh thus he wanted to HIDE the information about Old Rayleigh from Sengoku, so they won't need to deal with both at the same time.

If Garp meant Larines + Shichibukai = 4 Emperors at the same time, why he tried to HIDE the information about Old Rayleigh, who is clearly not even equal to 1 Emperor at the time. Basically the Larines can't even handle 1 Emperor + 0.5 Emperor power at the same time, let alone 4 Emperors at the same time.




LMAO

It does not matter if Sengoku singled out WB or not, is WB a part of 1 Emperor? Or 2 Emperors?

Is WB equal to 2 or 3 Emperors? Or just equal to 1 Emperor?

Clearly, WB is still a 1 Emperor, didn't even have the power to take on 2 Emperors at the same time, as WB didn't even want to fight 1 Emperor Kaido on Wano, due to being scared of casualties.

Surely standing in front meaning ignore the rest of the battle?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1153627949297483777

It looks like NERFED MF WB soloed 3 Ladmirals according to this panel as well.


0 reading comprehension

They literally told us in the last chapters that INFIGHTING between Rocks pirates was a factor.

WB was also nerfed and got stabbed by Squardo, another INFIGHTING caused WB's defeat.



Lets see if Lakainu would get neg diffed by even Marco or not if he fights him right after his 10 days battle with Aokiji.

That's exactly what Greenbitch is doing, attacking deathbed prisoners with no recovery and not even in Zoan form.


No one got destroyed.

WB pirates transformed into BLACKBEARD PIRATES. That nothing to do with Larines. It was BB's plan.

Larines didn't win anything. The time of the WB pirates was done. They didn't even capture Ace, Blackbeard captured Ace and delivered him alive.

Blackbeard took WB's place in Marineford battle.

Blackbeard pirates + remnants of WB pirates were still taking on entire Larines: Fleet Admiral + 3 Ladmirals. They didn't lose. Sengoku was wounded, Lakainu was wounded. Only Lizaru and Aokiji were fresh.

Coby was CRYING BECAUSE OF THE LARINES CASUALTIES against 1 Emperor.

If you Ladmiral wankers were right, then Shanks coming to MF wouldn't stop the war, as they can take on 4 Emperors at the same time, let alone 2 Emperors at the same time, BTW BB wasn't even a Yonko yet, he wasn't even able to fully control WB's powers, yet he was fighting Fleet Admiral Sengoku easily and even wounded him.

Wbp only managed to take out a VA, fodder, and akainu temporarily. If shanks hadn't come they wbp would have been annihilated only managing that. To the Marines as a whole they were destroyed.there wasn't anywhere near a equal fight. Hell sengoku and garp 2 top tiers didn't even fight the WBP and they still got beat badly. And this was a yonko crew that was getting help from the ID prisoners and the mc Luffy. So this wasn't a force stronger than just a yonko and it still lost badly. There's no yonko crew that matches the Marines and warlords together.

 

[ARMeni]

I don't think they necessarily equal all 4 Yonko crews. Marineford was a cakewalk for the marines because Oldbeard was sick and even then the Shichibukai contributted almost nothing + Blackbeard wreaking havoc as an unexpected participant at the end of it. But I'm sure Oldbeard + BM + Kaido + Shanks and all their crews would stomp the Marines.

Why don't they do this? Gee, I wonder why Oda has put so much focus on PIRATES BETRAYING EACH OTHER AND BREAKING ALLIANCES. How would the 4 most powerful pirates ally together when 2 of them aren't bent on changing the status quo (Whitebeard, Shanks) and the 4 of them don't get along well. It's fucking simple: if they did ally, they know someone would betray them at some point and decimate them to take their territories and power.

And it goes both ways: the Marines can't just go to Totland to wage war against Big Mom because it's her home turf, which gives her advantage, and by the time they would have defeated her, they would be weakened enough that Kaido could show up and end them. JUST LIKE SHANKS APPEARING AT THE END OF MARINEFORD WAS A THREAT FOR THEM AS WELL AND SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T WANT TO MESS WITH BECAUSE THEY WERE WEAKENED BY WHITEBEARD + BLACKBEARD.

Jesus Christ some people do need to read what Oda has been trying to say about pirates and marines for 1050 chapters.

 

[Iam25]

I don't think they necessarily equal all 4 Yonko crews. Marineford was a cakewalk for the marines because Oldbeard was sick and even then the Shichibukai contributted almost nothing + Blackbeard wreaking havoc as an unexpected participant at the end of it. But I'm sure Oldbeard + BM + Kaido + Shanks and all their crews would stomp the Marines.

Why don't they do this? Gee, I wonder why Oda has put so much focus on PIRATES BETRAYING EACH OTHER AND BREAKING ALLIANCES. How would the 4 most powerful pirates ally together when 2 of them aren't bent on changing the status quo (Whitebeard, Shanks) and the 4 of them don't get along well. It's fucking simple: if they did ally, they know someone would betray them at some point and decimate them to take their territories and power.

And it goes both ways: the Marines can't just go to Totland to wage war against Big Mom because it's her home turf, which gives her advantage, and by the time they would have defeated her, they would be weakened enough that Kaido could show up and end them. JUST LIKE SHANKS APPEARING AT THE END OF MARINEFORD WAS A THREAT FOR THEM AS WELL AND SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T WANT TO MESS WITH BECAUSE THEY WERE WEAKENED BY WHITEBEARD + BLACKBEARD.

Jesus Christ some people do need to read what Oda has been trying to say about pirates and marines for 1050 chapters.

No no no. The marines would have kicked Shanks ass with moderate difficulty but let him dictate the end of the war for some odd reason.

 

[Erkan12]

Wbp only managed to take out a VA, fodder, and akainu temporarily. If shanks hadn't come they wbp would have been annihilated only managing that. To the Marines as a whole they were destroyed.there wasn't anywhere near a equal fight. Hell sengoku and garp 2 top tiers didn't even fight the WBP and they still got beat badly. And this was a yonko crew that was getting help from the ID prisoners and the mc Luffy. So this wasn't a force stronger than just a yonko and it still lost badly. There's no yonko crew that matches the Marines and warlords together.

You think Coby was CRYING and ready to die for saving PIRATES?

Larines were dying SO BAD that Coby unlocked CoO Haki and ready to sacrifice his life for saving them in front of Lakainu.



Blackbeard was slaughtering the best Larines that they could find, only best Larines summoned to Marineford.


Who cares about WB Pirates? I already said BB transformed them into BB Pirates,

BB already weakened WB Pirates a lot:
- Killed 4th division commander Thatch, stole his Logia
- Captured and broke the bones of 2nd division commander Ace, put him into a deathbed condition and delivered him to Larines so they can execute him. Sengoku admitted they could never capture Ace, without BB capturing him.

- Then WB was already very sick, he needed constant medical treatment from nurses, which send them away because of the war.

- Crocodile already called WB ''weak''. And Marco agreed.

Larines never fought a full power 1 Emperor crew.

Then BB came to Marineford, stole WB's power and soloed Larines, Fleet Admiral + Garp.

Garp that said he can kill Lakainu did nothing to BB, and Sengoku was wounded after the battle.

And REMINDER that BB killed WB, not Lakainu or other Larines.

BB also did Larines's job by killing WB, thus he transformed WB pirates into BB pirates right there.

Larines never defeated 1 Emperor crew, BB kept soloing them easily.

When the second Emperor came, Larines gave up.

Basically, Larines admitted that 2 Emperors > entire Larines + Shichibukai in that moment.

NOTICE how Shanks challenges Blackbeard specifically by ignoring Lakainu and Sengoku, because Blackbeard was the strongest man in that battle, not Lakainu or Sengoku.

Larines submitted to 1 Emperor Shanks. They couldn't even handle 2 Emperors (BB wasn't even Emperor yet here) at the same time.

 

[SkySanji]

It's Marines + Shichibukai > one Yonko crew, multiple Emperors at once > Marines + Shichibukai, I've never seen anybody say Marines + Shichibukai = one Yonko crew

There are like five or six indications of this, why do you think the Marines literally defecate themselves whenever an alliance between two Yonko is proposed? Because that's something they couldn't handle.

People who use the Great Powers argument conveniently ignore that the Yonko are as much enemies of each other as they are the WG

 

[Robin swan]

You think Coby was CRYING and ready to die for saving PIRATES?

Larines were dying SO BAD that Coby unlocked CoO Haki and ready to sacrifice his life for saving them in front of Lakainu.



Blackbeard was slaughtering the best Larines that they could find, only best Larines summoned to Marineford.


Who cares about WB Pirates? I already said BB transformed them into BB Pirates,

BB already weakened WB Pirates a lot:
- Killed 4th division commander Thatch, stole his Logia
- Captured and broke the bones of 2nd division commander Ace, put him into a deathbed condition and delivered him to Larines so they can execute him. Sengoku admitted they could never capture Ace, without BB capturing him.

- Then WB was already very sick, he needed constant medical treatment from nurses, which send them away because of the war.

- Crocodile already called WB ''weak''. And Marco agreed.

Larines never fought a full power 1 Emperor crew.

Then BB came to Marineford, stole WB's power and soloed Larines, Fleet Admiral + Garp.

Garp that said he can kill Lakainu did nothing to BB, and Sengoku was wounded after the battle.

And REMINDER that BB killed WB, not Lakainu or other Larines.

BB also did Larines's job by killing WB, thus he transformed WB pirates into BB pirates right there.

Larines never defeated 1 Emperor crew, BB kept soloing them easily.

When the second Emperor came, Larines gave up.

Basically, Larines admitted that 2 Emperors > entire Larines + Shichibukai in that moment.

NOTICE how Shanks challenges Blackbeard specifically by ignoring Lakainu and Sengoku, because Blackbeard was the strongest man in that battle, not Lakainu or Sengoku.

Larines submitted to 1 Emperor Shanks. They couldn't even handle 2 Emperors (BB wasn't even Emperor yet here) at the same time.

Dude none of this long post counters anything I said. Did you even read what I said or were you just looking for someone to post this wall to?

 

[kurwa]

why do you think the Marines literally defecate themselves whenever an alliance between two Yonko is proposed? Because that's something they couldn't handle.

Wanna show anyone but fodder marines panicking about it?

Because I can show you Kizaru wanting to go fight both Big Mom & Kaido. I can show you Garp laughing about it.
I can show you Akainu literally leaving both Big Mom and Kaido alone because they are too busy with something else

 

[ARMeni]

Wanna show anyone but fodder marines panicking about it?

Because I can show you Kizaru wanting to go fight both Big Mom & Kaido. I can show you Garp laughing about it.
I can show you Akainu literally leaving both Big Mom and Kaido alone because they are too busy with something else

Little caveat: Kizaru and Garp reactions are BEFORE they know that they've made an alliance. They just know they've made contact and, as made explicit multiple times, KAIDO AND BIG MOM HAVE BEEN LIKE CAT AND DOG FOR A LONG LONG TIME. They didn't expect them making an alliance so it's not a high priority. On the other side, Shanks and Whitebeard meeting was a huge alert for even the Gorosei because they are in better terms than them and if they DID ally, it would be a huge problem.

Notice how when Fuji and Akainu talk about this in 957, Fujitora reacts fully shocked with "WHAT? ROCKS SECOND COMING?" BECAUSE IT'S A HUGE DEAL. Literally 2 panels after that, Brannew says that the Marines can't fully anticipate what the best way to counter them would be. And then Sengoku LITERALLY SAYS THE CAT AND DOG THING AND THAT THIS IS SOMETHING UNPRECENTED THAT THEY COULDN'T FORESEE.

You know why Kizaru wanted to go after BM and Kaido? Because if they made contact to fight off each other, finishing one of them after that would be easy. And if not, they would at least offer a third party inconvenience for the two of them so that they can bug off to their respective turfs and the balance is KEPT.

You can clearly see it with Garp and Akainu: Garp laughs off the Big Mom and Kaido news during the Reverie but in 957, after the alliance is official, he looks WORRIED. Akainu says in the Reverie chapters that he's more worried about the Wano samurai (because of Oden) but in 957 he literally says that they don't have the manpower to break their alliance. NOT DEFEAT THEM: JUST BREAK THEIR ALLIANCE.

Read 957 again.

Post automatically merged: Jun 18, 2022

People who use the Great Powers argument conveniently ignore that the Yonko are as much enemies of each other as they are the WG

you've nailed it with this last sentence.

 

[Sakura no Hiluluk]

Is this the part where we ignore that the Marine were fighting Two Yonko Crews at that Point and the Red Haired Pirates would have been the Third?

Technically speaking, BB wasn't yet a Yonko. If memory serves me, Sengoku was ready to deal with him by himself, right ? But yeah, he was a powerful player in his own right. Still, even without him I highly doubt the Marines would have taken Shanks head on. They may have prevailed sure, but at what cost ? We know that pirates roamed more freely than before in the aftermath of Marineford, after all and that the WG had to send a worldwide conscription to get unknown monsters out of their hiding places to rise among the ranks to compensate their losses.

That's what the Balance of Power is all about : balance. Neither force can afford to fight the other head on. And we know the Marines were slightly below the 4 Emperors since they were the one relying on the Corsairs to bolsters their power (and now the SSG). But that's mostly because unlike the Emperors who only survey a small portion of the world, they have to police all of the rest. Can you imagine what would happen if pirates like the Supernovas of that time were allowed to roam free because the main forces of the Marines would have been destroyed defeating all the yonkou ?

 

[Midnight Delight]

Technically speaking, BB wasn't yet a Yonko. If memory serves me, Sengoku was ready to dela with by himself, right ? But yeah, he was a powerful player in his own right. Still, even without him I highly doubt the Marines would have taken Shanks head on. They may have prevailed sure, but at what cost ? We know that pirates roamed more freely than before in the aftermath of Marineford, after all and that the WG had to send a worldwide conscription to get unknown monsters out of their hiding places to rise among the ranks to compensate their losses.

Nobody here is arguing that the Marines can defeat 2 or 3 Yonko crews without loses that would weaken them outside of guys who like to troll Yonko fans like Lee

Just that the concept that The Marines are =1 Yonko crew was always flawed

 

[Uncle Van]

It's called the 3 Great Powers:
-Hundreds of thousands of Marines are together as one power
-hundreds if thousands of pirates with the Emperors are one power
-7 pirates for hire are one power

It was directly stated that the 4 Emperors as a single power are counter balanced by the Marines+Warlords.

People are literally saying that the manga is non canon and making up the 6 powers with the irrelevant "yonko disunited" talk.

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

Two yonkou's formed an alliance and they still needed ancient weapons to take on the marines and wg

of course they do there's more yonko level marines/wg than pirates...

 

[IsaziSempi]

remember when one yonkou almost destroyed marineford? the marines had every advantage including a hostage and still almost lost.

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

of course they do there's more yonko level marines/wg than pirates...

Yet Kaido doesn't mention the other yonkou at all during his speach

 

[The Buddha]

remember when one yonkou almost destroyed marineford? the marines had every advantage including a hostage and still almost lost.

"Almost lost"

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

Yet Kaido doesn't mention the other yonkou at all during his speach

Big Mom and Blackbeard? What are you talking about?

Post automatically merged: Jun 18, 2022

Yet Kaido doesn't mention the other yonkou at all during his speach

There's a reason Oda didn't have Whitebeard 1v1 an admiral. Whitebeard stomps.

Instead Oda puts Whitebeard in a 1 sided war.

Whitebeard, Marco, Jozu vs Akainu, Garp, Sengoku, Kizaru, Aokiji, Blackbeard, and the rest of the marines.

If you think admirals are yonko level then you see that's basically Whitebeard pirates vs 6 Yonko and whitebeard and Luffy almost succeeded.

Luffy wasn't even able to hit an admiral at that point yet Luffy jumped in front of 3 admirals and survived.

Post automatically merged: Jun 18, 2022

"Almost lost"

Yeah pirates fought the marines at their own base with less fire power.

Luffy is a non-factor he had no armament haki.

You're comparing non-yonko level pirates to 3 admirals + garp and sengoku.

Pirates only had 1 admiral level fighter being Whitebeard.

 

[NikaInParis]

Yes, the Marine can take down a Yonko Crew by itself. By gathering it's best elements from all over the world, making sure the Emperor they face can't unleash his or her full power at once (why do you think they kept Ace alive for days/weeks when they could have felled him real fast? They needed something to prevent old Whitebeard going full berserk on them).

.

Whitebeard also gathered his best elements before going to Marineford. Hell, he gathered ALL his elements since, at Marineford, we didn't just have the crew from WB's main ship.
We had the crews of his 16 commanders + all their other allies from the New World.

Also, not unleashin their full power goes the other way to, which is something people like to ignore.
None of the Admirlas could have gone completely balls to the wall all out because Marineford was filled with Marine soldiers. And it was Marineford, their HQ.
If, for example, Aokiji and Akainu went as hard as they did on Punk Hazard, Marineford would have turned into a hellhole. So I would say they were nerfed to the same extent as Whitebeard.

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

Whitebeard also gathered his best elements before going to Marineford. Hell, he gathered ALL his elements since, at Marineford, we didn't just have the crew from WB's main ship.
We had the crews of his 16 commanders + all their other allies from the New World.

Also, not unleashin their full power goes the other way to, which is something people like to ignore.
None of the Admirlas could have gone completely balls to the wall all out because Marineford was filled with Marine soldiers. And it was Marineford, their HQ.
If, for example, Aokiji and Akainu went as hard as they did on Punk Hazard, Marineford would have turned into a hellhole. So I would say they were nerfed to the same extent as Whitebeard.

No pirate at marineford other than Whitebeard was at the level of an admiral. The pirates were severely outmatched.

If Admiral = yonko that shows how 1 sided the war was.

Whitebeard vs 6 Yonko level fighters + some of the warlords

In a 1v1 Whitebeard would beat any admiral.

Despite how 1 sided it was for the pirates, they still almost accomplished their goal.

 

[NikaInParis]

In a 1v1 Whitebeard would beat any admiral.

Despite how 1 sided it was for the pirates, they still almost accomplished their goal.

Prime Whitebeard? Yeah I can see that. But Marineford WB? No way. He couldn't even use haki to it's full extent. He's a dead man against any of the 3 in a 1 v 1 where they both go all out.
And almost doesn't cut it in a war. They almost rescued Ace but oops they lost their captain AND Ace and Oars Jr and however many other people. They lost, and were it not for a surprise Shanks appearance more of them would have died.

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

Prime Whitebeard? Yeah I can see that. But Marineford WB? No way. He couldn't even use haki to it's full extent. He's a dead man against any of the 3 in a 1 v 1 where they both go all out.
And almost doesn't cut it in a war. They almost rescued Ace but oops they lost their captain AND Ace and Oars Jr and however many other people. They lost, and were it not for a surprise Shanks appearance more of them would have died.

No not prime WB, sick or prime whitebeard wins in a 1v1.

None of whitebeards fights were a 1v1. He was about to defeat blackbeard but other pirates interfered.

He was about to defeat akainu but other marines interfered.

In a 1v1 whitebeard defeats any admirals saying otherwise is nonsense.

and of course they lost as I said Admiral is yonko/near yonko level

5 admirals vs 1 yonko is basically 5 yonko vs 1 yonko. Of course the pirates will lose a non-yonko is like fodder to admirals and yonko.