General & Others The myth of One Piece being a "masterpiece"/"peak fiction"

[kurwa]

my favorite cope when people say that one piece is good is the "worldbuilding"
They think that bunch of whacky, different islands = worldbuilding.

When in fact One Piece's worldbuilding doesn't make sense. For example, how haki is unknown for most of the people but it's common logic in new world. Not even a grandline knows it
Pirates surely talk very little about the powers that humans can do freely.

Or how everyone in east blue thinks that DF are mythical, yet they receive the same news as everyone else, same bounty posters as everyone else and watched the same war as everyone else where it showed magma people, earthquake people...etc.

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

Of course man, "most of the story". The story of "I've not been publishing anything for 3 years".


Man, I don't know what to tell you. Believe anything togashi says. After all, he's been very reliable so far. https://hiatus-hiatus.github.io/
3 years and a half today, almost the entirety of Wano.

Mangaka never stop writing for no reason.

For those who do not know, Yoshihiro Togashi the creator of Hunter x Hunter. The artist, who helmed Yu Yu Hakusho back in the day, has suffered from chronic debilitating back pain for years now. This condition is what forces Togashi to take frequent breaks, and he gave fans a look into his life after posting a few author notes concerning his back.

Yes he took a hiatus due to back pain. How does that correlate to reliability/honesty?

You're just retarded Oda dick sucker.

Post automatically merged: Jun 19, 2022

my favorite cope when people say that one piece is good is the "worldbuilding"
They think that bunch of whacky, different islands = worldbuilding.

When in fact One Piece's worldbuilding doesn't make sense. For example, how haki is unknown for most of the people but it's common logic in new world. Not even a grandline knows it
Pirates surely talk very little about the powers that humans can do freely.

Or how everyone in east blue thinks that DF are mythical, yet they receive the same news as everyone else, same bounty posters as everyone else and watched the same war as everyone else where it showed magma people, earthquake people...etc.

Exactly

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Mangaka never stop writing for no reason.

For those who do not know, Yoshihiro Togashi the creator of Hunter x Hunter. The artist, who helmed Yu Yu Hakusho back in the day, has suffered from chronic debilitating back pain for years now. This condition is what forces Togashi to take frequent breaks, and he gave fans a look into his life after posting a few author notes concerning his back.

Yes he took a hiatus due to back pain. How does that correlate to reliability/honesty?

You're just retarded Oda dick sucker.

Post automatically merged: Jun 19, 2022

Exactly

Oda dick sucker, lol.
YOu guys have problems, you either treat author as God or as shit, you have the mentality of children.
It's just like playground, "my comic is better than yours". Grow up, because me shitting on HxH for given reason, (which you have not addressed) doesn't mean that One Piece is the greatest opera of mankind. But it's for sure a masterpiece, and a Manga that will be remembered much more in the community than HxH. Both for the impact it had on the manga genre, for its duration and for it's overall popularity.

I am sorry that HxH will be remembered as a smart, creative yet irrelevant manga, but you only have togashi to blame for that.

Also, you guys are unable to process that there can be world building and there can be plot holes at the same time. But again, it's like talking with children.
Keep waiting, that father christmas is bringing you 19 chapters of HxH written with back pain, the only human disease known which has no cure, such as standing desks.

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

Oda dick sucker, lol.
YOu guys have problems, you either treat author as God or as shit, you have the mentality of children.
It's just like playground, "my comic is better than yours". Grow up, because me shitting on HxH for given reason, (which you have not addressed) doesn't mean that One Piece is the greatest opera of mankind. But it's for sure a masterpiece, and a Manga that will be remembered much more in the community than HxH. Both for the impact it had on the manga genre, for its duration and for it's overall popularity.

I am sorry that HxH will be remembered as a smart, creative yet irrelevant manga, but you only have togashi to blame for that.

Also, you guys are unable to process that there can be world building and there can be plot holes at the same time. But again, it's like talking with children.
Keep waiting, that father christmas is bringing you 19 chapters of HxH written with back pain, the only human disease known which has no cure, such as standing desks.

I don't treat anyone as a god. I think logically. Not everything is a 10 out of 10. HxH nor OP are peak fiction. Everything has it's flaws. Stans are the worst people. Stop coping.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

I don't treat anyone as a god. I think logically. Not everything is a 10 out of 10. HxH nor OP are peak fiction. Everything has it's flaws. Stans are the worst people. Stop coping.

Yeah, coming from the guy that has Togashi D. Goat as signature sure you're not a fanboy. Literally you write that you think logically and HxH is not peak fiction, yet you label togashi the GOAT. It is clear that logic is not your strength, but that was already quite clear, don't worry.

C'mon, your 19 chapters are on their way!

 

[Gear5PhoenixMan]

Yeah, coming from the guy that has Togashi D. Goat as signature sure you're not a fanboy. Literally you write that you think logically and HxH is not peak fiction, yet you label togashi the GOAT. It is clear that logic is not your strength, but that was already quite clear, don't worry.

C'mon, your 19 chapters are on their way!

All I know is Togashi is above Oda. After Buggy Yonko, Luffy hito hito fruit, no awakening Big mom, 3 billion luffy bounty, Kaido and Big mom both manage to end up in a volcano...

Fishman island trash

Punkhazard trash

Whole cake was also mess like Wano a couple good moments and everything else all over the place.
Trying to stop a yonko with a cake bullshit.

Enough said.

 

[Cregan]

Yeah, coming from the guy that has Togashi D. Goat as signature sure you're not a fanboy. Literally you write that you think logically and HxH is not peak fiction, yet you label togashi the GOAT. It is clear that logic is not your strength, but that was already quite clear, don't worry.

C'mon, your 19 chapters are on their way!

Gaimon is more memorable character then HxH main cast.

 

[Punk Rotten]

This forum is full of bitter folks who spend A LOT of time talking about a manga they wanna shit on, but at the same time so dedicated to.

This is the same kind of shit where all it will take is a few chapters these people love and they will flip their script about Oda being ‘mid’ or whatever. Happens all the time.

 

[Steven]

FMA is perfect and some salty OP fangays trying to compare both

Holy shit

 

[JoNdule]

Conan is the author's milking cow, 90% of the plot is just some random case that Gosho randomly pull out from real life case. And for why it's not getting axed yet because those diehard fan invest to much time for it or those sells product keeps stupidly defend them.
And OP's world building ? 80% of world building is still in mist because Oda and Gosho won't reveal shit to drag it out longer.

stop right there please

Post automatically merged: Jun 19, 2022

OP may be generic and super repetitive right now but it lasted 20+ years like Conan for a reason
These manga have things which keep the industry running and the fans interested
OP has world building while Conan has suspense and thriller

 

[Finalbeta]

It finished being a masterpiece since the MF War imo

 

[LordofCinder]

Some fanbases are more rabid than others, it’s not only One Piece, Berserk and HxH, having the advantage of being old ass rarely discussed due to hiatus series nobody remembers the complaints they used to have, and attacking them would result in a backlash, those two would be other examples, while other fanbases, such as Naruto(only after it ended, when it was airing it had a strong following too, and you could never see people moaning about Rock Lee [another trash character, don’t delude yourselves, nothing would change if he were to beat any opponent, actually, it would make the entire setting dumb, and all the “noble” clans would look retarded for pursuing better genetic offsprings for centuries] at the time, and the infamous “coolest guy ever” line was even defended quite a lot before Boruto was on and the original fanbase moved on for the most part, Dragonball (many people self inserted as Gohan, and still do, so they wanked the Android saga and mocked Majin boo, also, TFS brought a new fanbase that saw the series under absurdist lenses, so it became very easy to mock several aspects of it) Bleach (kinda complicated, it was banned in several Countries due to violence, but was still able to get a fanbase larger than Berserk, and Kubo also loved to clown on fan favourites such as Hitsugaya, or Kenpachi in the final arc) are more willing to “take a beating”, making them easy targets for important people like Youtubers, who will then go on to shape the image of the average manga/anime reader/watcher. You’d have to do something completely heartbreaking to the fanbase, like the end of GoT or AoT to have “permission” to shatter the aura of “perfect illusion” they used to have.
One Piece with Wano, laughed at every notions the series had, while also destroying the agency of each characters in order to move the plot Oda wants, all in order to make the Strawhats easily progress to the end (you can pinpoint the start of it being the Raizou is fine scene), that’s not enough though, Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Law and Kid are fan favourites, and their rise in power and notoriety vastly outshadow the bad writing and shoehorning regarding them, so at best, the fragments of truth regarding the current state of One Piece and its characters and plot will be found when a fan of something will try to slander another fan of something else, it’s probably the instant they have to be the most analytical about the manga, well, a part of, that is.

 

[dirtyLarry]

The only two arcs that "mirror" themselves are Dressrosa and Alabasta

No, that's simply not the case. I've outlined in my original post how every single arc outside of a handful of arcs (Davy Back Fight and the stretch from Amazon Lily to Marineford) has the same generic blueprint with a different theme slapped on it:

1) Reaching a new island
2) Splitting up and having a short adventure
3) Meeting the locals (most of the time a young female emerges as lead side-character for the arc)
4) Learn about the problems on that island and the enemies
5) Have a first encounter with the enemies that doesn't go well
6) Flashback of this arcs lead side-character (emphasizing the tragedy on that island)
7) SHs regroup
8) Final round against the antagonists
9) Island-wide threat is introduced (nuke in Alabasta, Advent of Thunder in Skypiea, Buster Call in EL, Birdcage in DR, Fire/Bombs in Onigashima etc.)
10) SHs win and banish the island-wide threat
11) Banquet and leaving for the next island
12) Rinse and repeat

Same old shit for 1053+ chapters.

Stating the obvious is nothing malicious.

Since you brought up other shonen like DBZ, Naruto or MHA: That's my point.

One Piece is not "above" those other shonen. Not in any metric possible outside of simply longetivity.

It's really just as generic a shonen as those titles are.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

No, that's simply not the case. I've outlined in my original post how every single arc outside of a handful of arcs (Davy Back Fight and the stretch from Amazon Lily to Marineford) has the same generic blueprint with a different theme slapped on it:

1) Reaching a new island
2) Splitting up and having a short adventure
3) Meeting the locals (most of the time a young female emerges as lead side-character for the arc)
4) Learn about the problems on that island and the enemies
5) Have a first encounter with the enemies that doesn't go well
6) Flashback of this arcs lead side-character (emphasizing the tragedy on that island)
7) SHs regroup
8) Final round against the antagonists
9) Island-wide threat is introduced (nuke in Alabasta, Advent of Thunder in Skypiea, Buster Call in EL, Birdcage in DR, Fire/Bombs in Onigashima etc.)
10) SHs win and banish the island-wide threat
11) Banquet and leaving for the next island
12) Rinse and repeat

Same old shit for 1053+ chapters.

Stating the obvious is nothing malicious.

Since you brought up other shonen like DBZ, Naruto or MHA: That's my point.

One Piece is not "above" those other shonen. Not in any metric possible outside of simply longetivity.

It's really just as generic a shonen as those titles are.

Oh god.
I can do the same also for stuff like Slam Dunk, you know?
1) Hanamichi trains a new technique
2) the match starts fine
3) Oh no, shohoku is in danger!!
4) Rukawa tries to save the situation
5) OH NO, Rukawa gave it all there is no escape!
6) Hanamich shows his new trained techiniques
7) Shohoku wins.

And slam dunk is probably one of the best manga ever written.
Come on. Say it's generic.

One Piece, and in general any media, is more than the sum of its parts.
Say that DBZ is generic downplays what it was, because it was a literal masterpiece, all shonen after DBZ feel its echo.

Your deconstruction applies to all media ever written, as I wrote. And being formulaic is not an inherent fault.

 

[Dark Admiral]

people are free to believe in whatever they want to.

 

[dirtyLarry]

Oh god.
I can do the same also for stuff like Slam Dunk, you know?
1) Hanamichi trains a new technique
2) the match starts fine
3) Oh no, shohoku is in danger!!
4) Rukawa tries to save the situation
5) OH NO, Rukawa gave it all there is no escape!
6) Hanamich shows his new trained techiniques
7) Shohoku wins.

And slam dunk is probably one of the best manga ever written.
Come on. Say it's generic.

One Piece, and in general any media, is more than the sum of its parts.
Say that DBZ is generic downplays what it was, because it was a literal masterpiece, all shonen after DBZ feel its echo.

Your deconstruction applies to all media ever written, as I wrote. And being formulaic is not an inherent fault.

Again just nonsense and trying to deflect any kind of criticism.

Being such an repetitive and generic work doesn't apply to "all media ever written". Far from it actually.

Neither DBZ nor OP are masterpieces in terms of actual storywriting.

They are iconic series for different reasons. A lot of their success can also be simply pinned on the top notch marketing those series have enjoyed, not bc people thought "OMG, what a gem of literature, I have to read that!".

 

[LubeDaddy]

1) Reaching a new island
2) Splitting up and having a short adventure
3) Meeting the locals (most of the time a young female emerges as lead side-character for the arc)
4) Learn about the problems on that island and the enemies
5) Have a first encounter with the enemies that doesn't go well
6) Flashback of this arcs lead side-character (emphasizing the tragedy on that island)
7) SHs regroup
8) Final round against the antagonists
9) Island-wide threat is introduced (nuke in Alabasta, Advent of Thunder in Skypiea, Buster Call in EL, Birdcage in DR, Fire/Bombs in Onigashima etc.)
10) SHs win and banish the island-wide threat
11) Banquet and leaving for the next island
12) Rinse and repeat

That's true and all but writing a book for example gives you much more time to come up with new shit. Having to constantly grind to keep on shitting out chapters every week means you'll inevitably have to follow some kind of formula or you simply just can't keep up. Given the constraints Oda works with I'd argue it's almost as good as it can be.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

Again just nonsense and trying to deflect any kind of criticism.

Being such an repetitive and generic work doesn't apply to "all media ever written". Far from it actually.

Neither DBZ nor OP are masterpieces in terms of actual storywriting.

They are iconic series for different reasons. A lot of their success can also be simply pinned on the top notch marketing those series have enjoyed, not bc people thought "OMG, what a gem of literature, I have to read that!".

I am deflecting?
I am saying that your criticism applies to a lot of mangas, even one considered the best in the genre, and you say that I am deflecting.
My example is spot on, a lot of opera are formulaic.
Let me help you formulaic : produced in accordance with a mechanically followed rule or style.
Take the Divine Comedy, take Don Quijote, take Canterbury tales, take Lord of the Rings, take whatever manga you want.
Most of opera across history are formulaic, and yet they are still incredible tales.

Am I saying One Piece is the best manga of all time? No, far from it. What I am saying is that in what it does is a masterpiece, for many reasons that I listed.
Saying that DB was owed to their top notch marketing is disingenuos, not to say it was a complete malicious lie to further your biased argument. Dragon ball changed shonen mangas single handedly

 

[dirtyLarry]

I am deflecting?
I am saying that your criticism applies to a lot of mangas, even one considered the best in the genre, and you say that I am deflecting.
My example is spot on, a lot of opera are formulaic.
Let me help you formulaic : produced in accordance with a mechanically followed rule or style.
Take the Divine Comedy, take Don Quijote, take Canterbury tales, take Lord of the Rings, take whatever manga you want.
Most of opera across history are formulaic, and yet they are still incredible tales.

You are missing the point.

Of course most works of literature (or other sorts of entertainment) follow a rough "formula".

It's completely different if I have one closed work that uses this formula once (!) from beginning to end or if I have a manga series with 15+ arcs, that uses the exact same formula again and again for every single one of those 15+ arcs.

It becomes way too repetitive and predictable after a while, sth which has been a rather prominent problem in post-skip One Piece.

You can write a long story and vary your approach from arc to arc, which makes it feel much less repetitive. Quite a few manga series manage to do that (Berserk, FMA, HxH etc.).

That's true and all but writing a book for example gives you much more time to come up with new shit. Having to constantly grind to keep on shitting out chapters every week means you'll inevitably have to follow some kind of formula or you simply just can't keep up. Given the constraints Oda works with I'd argue it's almost as good as it can be.

There is certainly some truth to it, but nobody blackmails Oda into having to write a chapter every single week.

Theoretically he could always take time off after each arc and plan the next arc in advance. If that's realistic or not is written on a different sheet of paper, but I'm pretty sure the results would be better.

Therefore I won't just apply different standards here, bc he doesn't take as much time as he could.

I only look at the end product and what I can see.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

You are missing the point.

Of course most works of literature (or other sorts of entertainment) follow a rough "formula".

It's completely different if I have one closed work that uses this formula once (!) from beginning to end or if I have a manga series with 15+ arcs, that uses the exact same formula again and again for every single one of those 15+ arcs.

It becomes way too repetitive and predictable after a while, sth which has been a rather prominent problem in post-skip One Piece.

You can write a long story and vary your approach from arc to arc, which makes it feel much less repetitive. Quite a few manga series manage to do that (Berserk, FMA, HxH etc.).

You are sounding like a prick since you started saying that what I say it's nonsense or I am "deflecting", when you cherry pick most of my criticism.
Again, Don Quijote is the most formulaic of works and it's immense in it's length.
Same the Divine Comedy.
So yeah, are those shit because they are super formulaic and never change their formula?
Not even once in Dragonball the formula changes, yet it rivolutionized shonen mangas.
Jojo has been enemy of the week for 30 years, yet it's still fantastic. IT has NEVER changed its structure. Protagonist or ally meet enemy, struggles, then find solution to stand and then it wins.

None of the mangas you have listed have the scope of One Piece. Literally none. Berserk is 3 mangas in one and I am quite sure Miura didn't know how to finish it, just like HxH. FMA was a shonen completely different from the others, both for themes and style.

One piece is the archetipe of shonen post DB. And at that is a masterpiece. It combines worldbuilding and plot in a battle shonen, being a jack of all trades.

There is certainly some truth to it, but nobody blackmails Oda into having to write a chapter every single week.

Theoretically he could always take time off after each arc and plan the next arc in advance. If that's realistic or not is written on a different sheet of paper, but I'm pretty sure the results would be better.

Therefore I won't just apply different standards here, bc he doesn't take as much time as he could.

I only look at the end product and what I can see.

This is a very valid perspective, but if you are only looking at the end product, what is HxH, what is Berserk?
Two uncomplete stories, the first where the arc of protagonist ended yet restarted and all the secondary plot lines are unfinished, Berserk not even has its main story close to be explained, countless of plotlines dropped. Do you hold the same standard that you have for One Piece for real?