Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
- Start date
- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
Also for some Riboku’s wank :
-Against Ouki- Two GH and surprising new army against a former 6GG.
- Against Gekishin- Two GH.
- Couldn't lead whole Coalition through northern pass even though had approx double of numbers advantages. Even Coalition army was the one who faced most of the damages after the end.
- At Sai, he knew about army of peasants and also knew there hasn't been any major general left in Qin who could put an impact which could affect his whole army. But all of his over-cautiousness cost him whole camping.
- At western Zhao (directly) or Kokuyou(indirectly), he finally lost without any ifs and buts.
Behind the battlefield, he might be epic at scheming or drawing battle plan but while taking Frontlines :
- Gekishin outplayed him while Houken saved him. So not the greatest strategist in whole series or China.
- battle of Sai.
- Battle of Shukai Plains or before that.
While being behind the curtains :
- Played Ouki to the death but still for that he has to make surprise entry and that with northern steed.
- successful in making biggest coalition.
- Destruction of Qin army at Atsuyou and Gian, through other armies or generals.
-Against Ouki- Two GH and surprising new army against a former 6GG.
- Against Gekishin- Two GH.
- Couldn't lead whole Coalition through northern pass even though had approx double of numbers advantages. Even Coalition army was the one who faced most of the damages after the end.
- At Sai, he knew about army of peasants and also knew there hasn't been any major general left in Qin who could put an impact which could affect his whole army. But all of his over-cautiousness cost him whole camping.
- At western Zhao (directly) or Kokuyou(indirectly), he finally lost without any ifs and buts.
Behind the battlefield, he might be epic at scheming or drawing battle plan but while taking Frontlines :
- Gekishin outplayed him while Houken saved him. So not the greatest strategist in whole series or China.
- battle of Sai.
- Battle of Shukai Plains or before that.
While being behind the curtains :
- Played Ouki to the death but still for that he has to make surprise entry and that with northern steed.
- successful in making biggest coalition.
- Destruction of Qin army at Atsuyou and Gian, through other armies or generals.
Oh wow, Riboku sure does suck for not being dumb enough to arbitrarily take on Legendary Great Generals head on in a fair fight. What a dumb chump. 
He wasn't the leader of the Coalition Army, Shunshinkan was. Riboku wasn't responsible for each nation's army, said nation was. Also Qin lost 2/3 of it's Great Generals at the time in that war.
He was literally about to take the city and win before Yotanwa pulled a Gandalf and arrived right on time.
Also, weren't you trying to invalidate Riboku's victory over Ouki because "it was a secret army" but when somebody else uses said tactic against Riboku then that is just legit?
He lost the former because his King constantly inconvenienced him (200,000 Kantan Elites just sitting there doing nothing) and Kokuyou was purely on Keisha and Kisui.
1) Riboku literally brought Houken along specifically for that battle to defeat Gekishin. Seriously, if you have access to Houken, why wouldn't you use the bloke?
2) Lost only because a hidden army appeared out of nowhere which is apparently a legitimate reason for Riboku's defeat but not Ouki's.
3) Lost because of royal interference.
"Defeated Ouki but only by using the method he used to defeat Ouki".
Bruh....
He wasn't the leader of the Coalition Army, Shunshinkan was. Riboku wasn't responsible for each nation's army, said nation was. Also Qin lost 2/3 of it's Great Generals at the time in that war.
He was literally about to take the city and win before Yotanwa pulled a Gandalf and arrived right on time.
Also, weren't you trying to invalidate Riboku's victory over Ouki because "it was a secret army" but when somebody else uses said tactic against Riboku then that is just legit?
He lost the former because his King constantly inconvenienced him (200,000 Kantan Elites just sitting there doing nothing) and Kokuyou was purely on Keisha and Kisui.
1) Riboku literally brought Houken along specifically for that battle to defeat Gekishin. Seriously, if you have access to Houken, why wouldn't you use the bloke?
2) Lost only because a hidden army appeared out of nowhere which is apparently a legitimate reason for Riboku's defeat but not Ouki's.
3) Lost because of royal interference.
"Defeated Ouki but only by using the method he used to defeat Ouki".
Bruh....
As for the claim that Ousen said that Riboku was superior that is for both employing exactly similar strategy but it was Riboku who was first to achieve the results with similar strategie by eliminating Makou and Akou. But by the end of the war who lost more generals or pawns in Ousen's language, one and only Riboku. With similar strategies Qin lost two while Zhao lost GakuEi, GyouUn, CGR, Danei, Earl brother and the biggest Pokémon, Houken.
Now secondly everyone claims due to Ousen's dialogues that it was due to Young Trio, just use your brain and look carefully, at Shukai plains, Ousen only had his own generals and other than that there was only Young trio for his aid while Riboku came with Houken, Kisui, Batei, GakuEi, Danei, CGR and Gyou'un for his aid other than his own army.
So now if Riboku would have won than the credit won't be his all alone. He got more helpers than Ousen had. As for the young gen, than he also got Futei and Kaine. Lol
Hara isn't just going to destroy Riboku’s character at his first clear loss because how could the most dangerous man later on going to face other generals of the Qin. Now even against single one general of the Qin, he got to receive help of Seika generals/army to built numerical advantage. Let's see now even to kill Kanki, if he has to get SBS out of Seika too ? Lol
Now secondly everyone claims due to Ousen's dialogues that it was due to Young Trio, just use your brain and look carefully, at Shukai plains, Ousen only had his own generals and other than that there was only Young trio for his aid while Riboku came with Houken, Kisui, Batei, GakuEi, Danei, CGR and Gyou'un for his aid other than his own army.
So now if Riboku would have won than the credit won't be his all alone. He got more helpers than Ousen had. As for the young gen, than he also got Futei and Kaine. Lol
Hara isn't just going to destroy Riboku’s character at his first clear loss because how could the most dangerous man later on going to face other generals of the Qin. Now even against single one general of the Qin, he got to receive help of Seika generals/army to built numerical advantage. Let's see now even to kill Kanki, if he has to get SBS out of Seika too ? Lol
Every single Zhao success solely within the confines of the Battle of Shukai Plains was entirely or partly attributable to Riboku.
1) Makou's death: Solely Riboku.
2) Akou's near death: It was Riboku's plan that allowed Bananji and Gyou'un to break through an Ousen patented formation.
3) Bananji/Futei pincer of Ousen HQ: Also Riboku's plan.
4) Gyou'un smashing Ouhon: Was also a Riboku plain if I recall correctly.
By comparison, Ousen was nowhere near as responsible for Qin's successes in that battle.
1) Saving the Left Wing: Purely Mouten, Ousen did nothing.
2) Gaku Ei's death: Purely the Right Wing commanders.
3) Chougaryuu's death: Purely the Right Wing commanders.
4) Gyou'un's death: Purely Ouhon.
5) Saving Qin's HQ: Purely Mouten and Ouhon.
6) Kinmou's death: Archer Bro.
7) Houken's death: Purely Kyoukai and Shin.
This was the difference in subordinates. Riboku's subordinates were heavily reliant on him. By comparison, Ousen's subordinates were far more proactive and readily plugged the gaps whenever Riboku tore a hole through Ousen's plans.
1) Makou's death: Solely Riboku.
2) Akou's near death: It was Riboku's plan that allowed Bananji and Gyou'un to break through an Ousen patented formation.
3) Bananji/Futei pincer of Ousen HQ: Also Riboku's plan.
4) Gyou'un smashing Ouhon: Was also a Riboku plain if I recall correctly.
By comparison, Ousen was nowhere near as responsible for Qin's successes in that battle.
1) Saving the Left Wing: Purely Mouten, Ousen did nothing.
2) Gaku Ei's death: Purely the Right Wing commanders.
3) Chougaryuu's death: Purely the Right Wing commanders.
4) Gyou'un's death: Purely Ouhon.
5) Saving Qin's HQ: Purely Mouten and Ouhon.
6) Kinmou's death: Archer Bro.
7) Houken's death: Purely Kyoukai and Shin.
This was the difference in subordinates. Riboku's subordinates were heavily reliant on him. By comparison, Ousen's subordinates were far more proactive and readily plugged the gaps whenever Riboku tore a hole through Ousen's plans.
No bro, I am rereading Bayou now, and Riboku’s strategic showing at Bayou was off-the-charts nutty.
Firstly, Riboku was the mastermind between Ouki even leading the Qin to begin with. We’ve never seen another commander with such an extreme level of ability in strategic genius that they literally draw a specific commander out to face them. Not once, and Riboku specifically did this through his use of Houken and deliberately leaking to the Qin that Houken would lead the Zhao.
Secondly, the army that Riboku hid from Qin, he hid so well that not even the state of Zhao knew that Riboku had an elite army of 130,000 in the North, and he overwhelmingly exterminated 200,000 Xiongnu troops without the state of Zhao itself even knowing what was going on up north (with the exception of the Zhao court). Zhao’s own generals had no idea that a war on the scale of hundreds of thousands of troops was taking place, specifically because Riboku hid that information from even his own state. This is what Yotanwa had to say about the Xiongnu:
And Riboku overwhelmingly exterminated them.
Third, Riboku had to conceal the existence of his army against Qin, which was extremely difficult given that Qin had spies in the Zhao court as Shoubunkun said. Riboku hid this army so well, that even though the Zhao court was aware of Riboku’s war against the Xiongnu, no information made it to Qin about this at all.
And finally, even when Ouki finally realizes that a second hidden army exists, Riboku still arrives with this army before Ouki was able to defeat Chousou and Houken. Ouki admitted that he had been completely outplayed by Riboku. Even if Ouki had slain Houken, Ouki and his 10Kish troops would’ve certainly been defeated by Riboku’s lightning fast army of 60K veteran soldiers who had massacred the Xiongnu.
Riboku did all of this without the Qin not knowing that he existed, despite the Qin watching every territory in China closely. Lol
Firstly, Riboku was the mastermind between Ouki even leading the Qin to begin with. We’ve never seen another commander with such an extreme level of ability in strategic genius that they literally draw a specific commander out to face them. Not once, and Riboku specifically did this through his use of Houken and deliberately leaking to the Qin that Houken would lead the Zhao.
Secondly, the army that Riboku hid from Qin, he hid so well that not even the state of Zhao knew that Riboku had an elite army of 130,000 in the North, and he overwhelmingly exterminated 200,000 Xiongnu troops without the state of Zhao itself even knowing what was going on up north (with the exception of the Zhao court). Zhao’s own generals had no idea that a war on the scale of hundreds of thousands of troops was taking place, specifically because Riboku hid that information from even his own state. This is what Yotanwa had to say about the Xiongnu:
And Riboku overwhelmingly exterminated them.
Third, Riboku had to conceal the existence of his army against Qin, which was extremely difficult given that Qin had spies in the Zhao court as Shoubunkun said. Riboku hid this army so well, that even though the Zhao court was aware of Riboku’s war against the Xiongnu, no information made it to Qin about this at all.
And finally, even when Ouki finally realizes that a second hidden army exists, Riboku still arrives with this army before Ouki was able to defeat Chousou and Houken. Ouki admitted that he had been completely outplayed by Riboku. Even if Ouki had slain Houken, Ouki and his 10Kish troops would’ve certainly been defeated by Riboku’s lightning fast army of 60K veteran soldiers who had massacred the Xiongnu.
Riboku did all of this without the Qin not knowing that he existed, despite the Qin watching every territory in China closely. Lol
Oh wow, Riboku sure does suck for not being dumb enough to arbitrarily take on Legendary Great Generals head on in a fair fight. What a dumb chump.
He was for Zhao at least even though throwing stools or sharing tea with SSK everyday in front of Northern pass.
If tried to achieve victory at northern pass and had led his own nation's army than with his title of being most dangerous, he might have defeated Duke and Shin. Than he also would have the chance to either pincer MouBu/Tou army or even by pass them inside Northern pass with more than 150k men.
Only GG Qin lost at coalition was ChouTou and Duke. Though if compared it to loss at northern pass, it is one against four.
EiSei's objective was to stall with peasants while playing prank on Riboku. Here it was Riboku whose calculations or insticts failed him along with over-cautiousness which delayed everything for him.
YTW isn't the most dangerous person of china or so called best of all time. It is Riboku. Also great Ouki was able to predict arrival of new army after seeing all the stalling by Zhao general while Riboku couldn't predict this thing as well when he saw all the stalling by Sai. One more point depleting Riboku’s title's worth.
Riboku had the numerical as well as home turf advantage along with better and more generals (now both qualitative and quantitative advantage) so how could the best strategist couldn't hold his own HQ against outsiders. Now the most dangerous man needs more than double the opponents army to ensure each and every victory !? Lol
My bad, i thought it was Riboku who guided Keisha like he did with all of his commanders before any battle.
1- Yeah keeping commander in chief of the campaign hidden and bet on him for timely entry to save his a**. Like against Duke at southern pass.
2- Lost because not being able to take timely action or couldn't be able to see through the stalling motive of Qin.
Ousen did take risk of leaving left of pass while saving gates from Karin's elite army. That's timely action and perfect calculations.
3- as per manga panels the moment Riboku realized food supply route was exactly the moment food went inside the Gyou. Also Gyou is so big that Kaine with her men couldn't see through the other side from where food came (if you believe Riboku’s presence could change results).
No bro, I am rereading Bayou now, and Riboku’s strategic showing at Bayou was off-the-charts nutty.
Firstly, Riboku was the mastermind between Ouki even leading the Qin to begin with. We’ve never seen another commander with such an extreme level of ability in strategic genius that they literally draw a specific commander out to face them. Not once, and Riboku specifically did this through his use of Houken and deliberately leaking to the Qin that Houken would lead the Zhao.
Secondly, the army that Riboku hid from Qin, he hid so well that not even the state of Zhao knew that Riboku had an elite army of 130,000 in the North, and he overwhelmingly exterminated 200,000 Xiongnu troops without the state of Zhao itself even knowing what was going on up north (with the exception of the Zhao court). Zhao’s own generals had no idea that a war on the scale of hundreds of thousands of troops was taking place, specifically because Riboku hid that information from even his own state. This is what Yotanwa had to say about the Xiongnu:
And Riboku overwhelmingly exterminated them.
Third, Riboku had to conceal the existence of his army against Qin, which was extremely difficult given that Qin had spies in the Zhao court as Shoubunkun said. Riboku hid this army so well, that even though the Zhao court was aware of Riboku’s war against the Xiongnu, no information made it to Qin about this at all.
And finally, even when Ouki finally realizes that a second hidden army exists, Riboku still arrives with this army before Ouki was able to defeat Chousou and Houken. Ouki admitted that he had been completely outplayed by Riboku. Even if Ouki had slain Houken, Ouki and his 10Kish troops would’ve certainly been defeated by Riboku’s lightning fast army of 60K veteran soldiers who had massacred the Xiongnu.
Riboku did all of this without the Qin not knowing that he existed, despite the Qin watching every territory in China closely. Lol
Firstly, Riboku was the mastermind between Ouki even leading the Qin to begin with. We’ve never seen another commander with such an extreme level of ability in strategic genius that they literally draw a specific commander out to face them. Not once, and Riboku specifically did this through his use of Houken and deliberately leaking to the Qin that Houken would lead the Zhao.
Secondly, the army that Riboku hid from Qin, he hid so well that not even the state of Zhao knew that Riboku had an elite army of 130,000 in the North, and he overwhelmingly exterminated 200,000 Xiongnu troops without the state of Zhao itself even knowing what was going on up north (with the exception of the Zhao court). Zhao’s own generals had no idea that a war on the scale of hundreds of thousands of troops was taking place, specifically because Riboku hid that information from even his own state. This is what Yotanwa had to say about the Xiongnu:
And Riboku overwhelmingly exterminated them.
Third, Riboku had to conceal the existence of his army against Qin, which was extremely difficult given that Qin had spies in the Zhao court as Shoubunkun said. Riboku hid this army so well, that even though the Zhao court was aware of Riboku’s war against the Xiongnu, no information made it to Qin about this at all.
And finally, even when Ouki finally realizes that a second hidden army exists, Riboku still arrives with this army before Ouki was able to defeat Chousou and Houken. Ouki admitted that he had been completely outplayed by Riboku. Even if Ouki had slain Houken, Ouki and his 10Kish troops would’ve certainly been defeated by Riboku’s lightning fast army of 60K veteran soldiers who had massacred the Xiongnu.
Riboku did all of this without the Qin not knowing that he existed, despite the Qin watching every territory in China closely. Lol
- Forming Coalition.
- Ouki's death trap.
- Firstly the damage at Atsuyou on Ousen's army.
- Thoroughly destroying more than half of the new army of Qin at Gian.
Along with this, Riboku being able to know about how Kyou died or even the relationship between Houken, Ouki and Kyou. That's also terrifying. Though for this it might be that he guessed it through the information Houken gave him. There relationship is quite old.
For the second and third point, literally there's nothing to counter coz Riboku’s capabilities in planning something is matchless. I'll add the information Lockdown during coalition as well. SHK directly admitted his failure for that.
Ouki had no experience with northern side of Zhao or there capabilities that's why he couldn't calculate the arrival of new army from that perspective.
Secondly if he knew about such than there's only one possibility that he won't have taken the bait of getting inside that bell shaped mountain in the first place. He went inside because with his calculations, he could save MouBu and kill Chousou and Houken before getting trapped.
Now even if he had kill ChouSou and Houken before arrival of Riboku, than i doubt if Riboku would be able to stop the charge of three super beasts along with there core army and that's when Ouki and Tou with there knowledge, experience and strength (in this even includes Moubu) could broke through any defense formation.
He literally hides himself in the north so perfectly that no one knew about the existence of a monster of such caliber. Not even Renpa, who definitely would be aware of every activity in the North. While Riboku isn't someone who emerged within few months of Renpa’s departure and Bayou battle. Lol
Post automatically merged:
But Major for my point of Riboku being best of all time as strategist or being most dangerous man and still had to do shady things to achieve victory against Ouki while KouEn could also do the same against another Qin six fairly still stands. What do you think about it ?
Only victory of him fair and square would most probably be now against Kanki.
i believeRiboku isn't going to call SBS here because he knows that Ordo isn't going to leave any opportunity to conquer lands of Zhao. If SBS leaves eastern side than Ordo definitely going to make a move.
As for against Gekishin, i agree with @Owl Ki about Houken's use but as showed in manga Riboku was beaten in the strategy there against Gekishin and later in his surprise attack at HQ. I added Gekishin's battle in the first place because i also had read someone said that Riboku is best strategist China has ever seen. While Riboku was beaten there in strategy or counter attack by Gekishin. I missed this point in first post but complained about Houken's entry. Gekishin clearly lost for him being overconfident about his strength. Lol
Last edited:
Well for one, I disagree with the notion that defeating someone “fairly” is more impressive than beating someone through “underhanded” means. In the U.S., there is a saying: “All is fair in love and war”, the saying meaning that it is really impossible to cheat when it comes to warfare, honor and pride don’t exist in war, and whatever you do to win is valid.
For two, what Kou En did to Oukotsu is not even remotely as impressive as what Riboku did to Ouki, lol
All Kou En did was say “huh? What? Oukotsu is invading Chu? Okay, Kanmei, you go deal with him I guess.” As far as we know lol. Riboku literally pulled Ouki out of semi-retirement to come and face him. He created a scenario where the Qin would select Ouki as their commander, and a scenario where Ouki would agree to lead an army. It’s like 10x more impressive than what Kou En did for me lol. Credit for defeating Oukotsu is 80% Kanmei, credit for defeating Ouki is like 60-70% Riboku. Lol
1. Gekishin is a Great Heaven level commander himself
2. There is absolutely no guarantee Gekishin would’ve defeated Riboku even if Houken were not present given how good Riboku is at retreating lol. I’ve seen Riboku haters act like Gekishin was guaranteed to slay Riboku if not for Houken. He absolutely was not. Even when Shin slayed Houken, Riboku still easily escaped and diverted the whole Zhao army towards Gyou while simultaneously baiting the Qin to chase him too recklessly. People also do the same thing with Duke Hyou, they just baselessly assume Duke Hyou would’ve defeated Riboku were Houken not present, which is completely baseless.
For two, what Kou En did to Oukotsu is not even remotely as impressive as what Riboku did to Ouki, lol
All Kou En did was say “huh? What? Oukotsu is invading Chu? Okay, Kanmei, you go deal with him I guess.” As far as we know lol. Riboku literally pulled Ouki out of semi-retirement to come and face him. He created a scenario where the Qin would select Ouki as their commander, and a scenario where Ouki would agree to lead an army. It’s like 10x more impressive than what Kou En did for me lol. Credit for defeating Oukotsu is 80% Kanmei, credit for defeating Ouki is like 60-70% Riboku. Lol
1. Gekishin is a Great Heaven level commander himself
2. There is absolutely no guarantee Gekishin would’ve defeated Riboku even if Houken were not present given how good Riboku is at retreating lol. I’ve seen Riboku haters act like Gekishin was guaranteed to slay Riboku if not for Houken. He absolutely was not. Even when Shin slayed Houken, Riboku still easily escaped and diverted the whole Zhao army towards Gyou while simultaneously baiting the Qin to chase him too recklessly. People also do the same thing with Duke Hyou, they just baselessly assume Duke Hyou would’ve defeated Riboku were Houken not present, which is completely baseless.
More raws :
Maron Aide: Maron-san, the Koku’Ou Army has collided with them. As we thought, we can’t easily slip away!
Maron: I already know that! However, we have amassed enough strength here.
Ringyoku: That beat to shit Shin of the Hi Shin Unit did it, so we can, too! The second wave, Ringyoku Unit is here! Enter the gaps where Koku’Ou is!
Ringyoku Soldier: Don’t just roll over and die!
Riboku Aide 1: Those bastards are successively charging at this left wall..
Riboku Aide 2: In what seems to be a wave attack.. Riboku-sama, at this rate…
Riboku: Orders for all armies forming the encirclement! In order to save himself and without considering the overall chaotic situation, Kanki has broken through only on the right side. Kanki’s scheming has already ended! Advance at once from all sides with a coordinated attack and bury the Kanki Army!
Unknown Voice (Bananji?): Haha, the left half of Kanki’s army is in disorder. Defeating them will be very easy!
cr: saemoon
Maron Aide: Maron-san, the Koku’Ou Army has collided with them. As we thought, we can’t easily slip away!
Maron: I already know that! However, we have amassed enough strength here.
Ringyoku: That beat to shit Shin of the Hi Shin Unit did it, so we can, too! The second wave, Ringyoku Unit is here! Enter the gaps where Koku’Ou is!
Ringyoku Soldier: Don’t just roll over and die!
Riboku Aide 1: Those bastards are successively charging at this left wall..
Riboku Aide 2: In what seems to be a wave attack.. Riboku-sama, at this rate…
Riboku: Orders for all armies forming the encirclement! In order to save himself and without considering the overall chaotic situation, Kanki has broken through only on the right side. Kanki’s scheming has already ended! Advance at once from all sides with a coordinated attack and bury the Kanki Army!
Unknown Voice (Bananji?): Haha, the left half of Kanki’s army is in disorder. Defeating them will be very easy!
cr: saemoon
