Character Discussion Why Sanji has more self respect as a fighter than Zoro, without even having fight oriented dream?

[kurwa]

Serious.

Sanji doesn't have strength dream, so he can get stronger by gathering 7 dragonballs, wishing to be stronger and it still wouldn't ruin his character. Yet Oda writes him as this character who doesn't want a shortcuts to strength

Spoiler

Which is a total contrast compared to Zoro, who seeks out every possible shortcut to getting stronger, like magic swords. Which is jarring because his character is purely just about fighting and getting stronger, yet he has no self respect to get stronger with just normal swords

Spoiler

Zoro gets an unfair advantage to his road to WSS compared to his other rivals (whoever they are). There are very finite number of graded swords and only lucky people can get their hands on them and gain their powers. Not to mention Zoro gets 3 of them.
So if Zoro's other rivals weren't lucky enough to get a good graded sword, they are automatically at the massive disadvantage.

What if a future challenger that challenges Zoro for his WSS title and only loses by a hair because he had a normal sword, while Zoro had 3 legendary swords? Wouldn't that show how much better swordsman who didn't use magic swords is?

And no, the "Zoro needs to train with them" excuse doesn't work because the "training" is done offscreen, showing how little it takes and in return you gain so much more power than you could ever get with training with a normal sword.

Kozaburo calls normal swords "crap"

If Zoro actually followed his character, he should throw his magic swords away and use "crap" swords to be beat Mihawk and prove that he is WSS without needing magic swords and can do it using any swords.

I have no idea how you can be a fan of Zoro and like him using magic swords. Right now, the road to WSS title is just about who gets stronger swords

 

[Formerly Seth]

Enma ruins everything. I hate this fucking sword, everything from it being held by Oden before to it being a sword with a unique ability.

I don't mind the concept of the cursed swords so if Zoro was just swapping between Kitetsus it would be okay. Enma is a trash sword and I hate every minute of Zoro using it, especially since at some point Oda wanked it more than the character that wields it.

Zoro's road to WSS is fraudulent for a long time, not only during Wano because of Enma.

Man hadn't fought fucking swordsman that is competent post timeskip. Zoro's biggest fight in the entire series is a fucking ptero karate kid with no advanced Haki forms for god sake...

It should've been Nobunaga shit. No Orochi or anything.

 

[Den_Den_Mushi]

…Yet he still put on the raid suit anyway?

Idk if you’ve been reading the manga, but the swords choose their wielder. If you’re able to wield a meito without dying or being turned into a lifeless husk, that actually speaks volumes as to your individual strength.

Strangely enough, why do swords, which require actual effort and haki control to master, count as ‘free power ups’ and not being literally genetically engineered with bulletproof skin and regeneration? If Sanji really cared about being independent from Judge, he’d ask Chopper to remove the modified genes and turn him back to a regular human. But I guess it’s ok to rely on daddy for a bounty boost and accept daddy’s generous contribution of superhuman genes influenced by Vegapunk research. Ok!

 

[Formerly Seth]

…Yet he still put on the raid suit anyway?

Idk if you’ve been reading the manga, but the swords choose their wielder. If you’re able to wield a meito without dying or being turned into a lifeless husk, that actually speaks volumes as to your individual strength.

Strangely enough, why do swords, which require actual effort and haki control to master, count as ‘free power ups’ and not being literally genetically engineered with bulletproof skin and regeneration? If Sanji really cared about being independent from Judge, he’d ask Chopper to remove the modified genes and turn him back to a regular human. But I guess it’s ok to rely on daddy for a bounty boost and accept daddy’s generous contribution of superhuman genes influenced by Vegapunk research. Ok!

I don't agree with him completely but he has a point about Enma.

It's really one annoying sword for Zoro to have from the story and power point too. Oda didn't help us with the number of highlights he gave to it.

I hope Zoro traded this fucking Oden scent for Nidai.

 

[Peroroncino]

author just confirmed the only thing sanji developed himself is haki and his fighting style,he's a lab rat got everything from his father because he couldnt keep up by himself

 

[kurwa]

…Yet he still put on the raid suit anyway?

Yeah because thought it was useful but still hated it

Idk if you’ve been reading the manga, but the swords choose their wielder

Are you unironic right now? Are you one of those schizos who think Zoro is a literal "King of Hell" and is friends with satan, instead of realizing what figure of speech means?

If you’re able to wield a meito without dying or being turned into a lifeless husk, that actually speaks volumes as to your individual strength

10 yr old Oden was wielding Enma no problem. In fact Kozaburo forged Enma for 5 yr old Oden to use.
Strength has nothing to do with it, it just has to do with getting used to it.

Strangely enough, why do swords, which require actual effort and haki control to master, count as ‘free power ups’

Because the character wouldn't be able to do those things without the sword and it's an unfair advantage?
That's like saying "how is aimboting cheating if you need to put an effort of writing the code in?"

and not being literally genetically engineered with bulletproof skin and regeneration?

Did you skip the first part of this post? It doesn't matter how Sanji gets stronger because his character is not about strength

If Sanji really cared about being independent from Judge, he’d ask Chopper to remove the modified genes and turn him back to a regular human

Wait, now Chopper can reverse DNA to the point where Judge and Vegapunk can't?

 

[m0nst3Rx]

Damn lanji is so shit man. worst written character ever 🤢

 

[babycorazon]

Damn lanji is so shit man. worst written character ever 🤢

"yellowbook (databook, PRE-TS)" you still in pre-ts?

 

[traxex123]

Damn lanji is so shit man. worst written character ever 🤢

Zorolo holds mihawk legs and cries, please help me stronger

 

[Chrono]

Sanji has shown more self respect.

Zoro calls himself a swordsman, yet he himself claims he will rip out King's throat with his mouth. Sanji would never use his hands in a battle and he sticks to that.

 

[Doggo]

Enma ruins everything. I hate this fucking sword, everything from it being held by Oden before to it being a sword with a unique ability.

I don't mind the concept of the cursed swords so if Zoro was just swapping between Kitetsus it would be okay. Enma is a trash sword and I hate every minute of Zoro using it, especially since at some point Oda wanked it more than the character that wields it.

Zoro's road to WSS is fraudulent for a long time, not only during Wano because of Enma.

Man hadn't fought fucking swordsman that is competent post timeskip. Zoro's biggest fight in the entire series is a fucking ptero karate kid with no advanced Haki forms for god sake...

It should've been Nobunaga shit. No Orochi or anything.

What a lucid fella.

 

[VisualKei]

Oda also reference Sanji and Zoro as two wings to Luffy in SBS anyway

 

[RYNO]

I will say it again zoro vs sanji fan war is stupid, I wish for it to die.

 

[Doggo]

If Sanji really cared about being independent from Judge, he’d ask Chopper to remove the modified genes and turn him back to a regular human.

Ngl. This thread is just some bait and all, but I've never expected to see this kind of nonsense being said unironically. I've seen a good share of shitty takes, heck, I'm even got some myself, but this here....holy fucking shit this here is some next level "i'm gonna say whatever first BS that comes to mind and pretend I'm smart while saying it".


Poor Chopper needed Ceasar's help just to increase the duration of Monster Point while still having some gag side effect, but SURELY Chopper can just >>>>>REMOVE DNA<<<<< at will like he's some Dr. Manhattan.
Seriously, I'm still trying to piece together how someone in their sanity can say this and still claim they "know what character X should do".
Good job.

"just remove the modified genes"
this is just pure gold.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

Sanjino is just a cook

 

[Hamlette]

Ngl. This thread is just some bait and all, but I've never expected to see this kind of nonsense being said unironically. I've seen a good share of shitty takes, heck, I'm even got some myself, but this here....holy fucking shit this here is some next level "i'm gonna say whatever first BS that comes to mind and pretend I'm smart while saying it".


Poor Chopper needed Ceasar's help just to increase the duration of Monster Point while still having some gag side effect, but SURELY Chopper can just >>>>>REMOVE DNA<<<<< at will like he's some Dr. Manhattan.
Seriously, I'm still trying to piece together how someone in their sanity can say this and still claim they "know what character X should do".
Good job.

"just remove the modified genes"
this is just pure gold.

"If you don't like your genetic make up..............just remove it".

 

[Den_Den_Mushi]

Ngl. This thread is just some bait and all, but I've never expected to see this kind of nonsense being said unironically. I've seen a good share of shitty takes, heck, I'm even got some myself, but this here....holy fucking shit this here is some next level "i'm gonna say whatever first BS that comes to mind and pretend I'm smart while saying it".


Poor Chopper needed Ceasar's help just to increase the duration of Monster Point while still having some gag side effect, but SURELY Chopper can just >>>>>REMOVE DNA<<<<< at will like he's some Dr. Manhattan.
Seriously, I'm still trying to piece together how someone in their sanity can say this and still claim they "know what character X should do".
Good job.

"just remove the modified genes"
this is just pure gold.

Well isn’t that a shame. The poor Vinsmoke brothers will be stuck as emotionless killing machines forever. They can’t help it, can they? It’s in their genes. In that sense they’re also victims of Judge and his unethical science. But I guess it’s not a priority for Sanji to even ask Chopper or Franky if it can be done, if they can combine their efforts to save his brothers and free him from Judge for good. Or even commence research into the lineage factor, since it’s not what Sora would want at all, for 3 out of 4 of her sons to never know happiness and love. Ah but wait… Perhaps Sanji doesn’t actually want to be freed from Judge. Not when the superior genes, with no drawbacks whatsoever benefit him personally. Huh, so much for being kinder than anyone.

Poor Chopper and Franky. They are just too inept and Sanji can’t believe in their skills or capacity to grow and improve.

 

[Sir Tuna Sandwich II]

"If you don't like your genetic make up..............just remove it".

Sanjino just a cook

 

[Doggo]

Well isn’t that a shame. The poor Vinsmoke brothers will be stuck as emotionless killing machines forever. They can’t help it, can they? It’s in their genes. In that sense they’re also victims of Judge and his unethical science. But I guess it’s not a priority for Sanji to even ask Chopper or Franky if it can be done, if they can combine their efforts to save his brothers and free him from Judge for good. Or even commence research into the lineage factor, since it’s not what Sora would want at all, for 3 out of 4 of her sons to never know happiness and love. Ah but wait… Perhaps Sanji doesn’t actually want to be freed from Judge. Not when the superior genes, with no drawbacks whatsoever benefit him personally. Huh, so much for being kinder than anyone.

Poor Chopper and Franky. They are just too inept and Sanji can’t believe in their skills or capacity to grow and improve.

"sanji can't believe in their skills".
Oh, so that's the game we're playing, huh?

The poor Vinsmoke brothers will be stuck as emotionless killing machines forever. They can’t help it, can they? It’s in their genes. In that sense they’re also victims of Judge and his unethical science

Actually...they are.

Or even commence research into the lineage factor, since it’s not what Sora would want at all, for 3 out of 4 of her sons to never know happiness and love.

Sora managed to maintain Reiju's emotions because she actually raised her with love and care. Judge basically isolated her from the quadruplets at birth, since she was too weak due to the weird medicine she took.
With Sanji not manifesting the enhanced genes (which is told by Oda, when someone asks him about Sanji's hair color being the same as his parents), Judge just didn't'see the need to isolate Sanji from Sora at all. It was a non-factor. A discarded product. The only reason he just didn't toss Sanji at the sea was because the kid was still his son, as he explains when Sanji tries to escape.

Huh, so much for being kinder than anyone.

Well, can't do anything about that, can I. Dude literally told Luffy, with tears in his eyes, that, despite every single abuse he had to endure while living with the Vinsmokes, both as a child and during this period in WCI, he STILL found in his heart the compassion to try and save them.
Freaking author on the last SBS, ONCE AGAIN, emphasizes this aspect of Sanji's character. You wanna go fishing for the inconsistencies about this characterization? Be my guest. Ain't got the time to do the same with literally every single other SH just to prove your bias.

Not when the superior genes, with no drawbacks whatsoever benefit him personally

I really don't understand this obsession that, just because Sanji uses the modifications he had no choice getting, it makes him "slave to Judge".
Sorry, but I'm just too lazy to dive into this shitty psychological projection. Guess everyone who has a problem with either of their parents should split their bodies in half, since they have half of that parent's genes. Wanna keep shouting this retarded take to the four winds? Again, be my guest.

Anything else you wanna enlighten us mere mortals with, oh holy writing guru?

 

[Weeman]

Imagine thinking you're cheating at the gym because you got better training equipment.
Might as well say Zoro should've restricted himself to using wooden swords otherwise he's taking the easy path