Spoiler General Kingdom Spoiler
- Thread starter Guan Yu
- Start date
- Tags cruzeiro > your fav team kaneki & mutin kouen > all ousen ousen>cruzeiro riboku>ousen shin > ouhon wingdom
I do not like that Na Ki overstepped and that Shin let it slide.
Right now, for all they know Kan Ki is dead and Mou Ten is on bedrest. Shin is the ranking officer, he calls the shots. In an era where generals held such incredible latitude they could do practically whatever they want, including summarily executing their own men, so long as they didn't contradict orders and lived with the consequences, he was well within his right to commandeer the engineering corps and forbid the Saki from approaching Gian.
That they already refused him once was ground for summary execution. As was Na Ki committing to a deal without authorisation, talking back to his general when reprimanded and even at point silencing him with a raised hand - all without offering a word of apology.
That shit just cannot happen. As laidback as Shin is, it at the very least warranted a stern talking to in which Na Ki would be told he would have to find a new home if he did anything of the sort again.
It doesn't matter whether Na Ki believed he did the right thing. The chain of command cannot be so willfully and openly disregarded without some form of consequence.
We should've seen that. Perhaps the first time Na Ki talked backed to him, before allowing the Saki clan leader to continue because Shin was begrudgingly interested in knowing Kan Ki's past as well - though naturally he wouldn't commit to bringing them along.
The Saki could've still eventually come along to Gian via a multitude of ways. Perhaps they would be forbidden to come along but defy those orders and acquit themselves through achieving their goals through mild psychological warfare that Shin could live with; or perhaps the clan leader would swear they would not go near civilians and only interrogate under his supervision; perhaps Kyou Kai could've offered to incorporate the Saki in their siege unit, with a clear warning that she (and Kyou Rei, perhaps taunting in the background) would eliminate them all if they showed a hint of betrayal.
A version of this could've gone down and the plot could've been pushed along without undermining Shin's leadership and values in that roles.
Right now, for all they know Kan Ki is dead and Mou Ten is on bedrest. Shin is the ranking officer, he calls the shots. In an era where generals held such incredible latitude they could do practically whatever they want, including summarily executing their own men, so long as they didn't contradict orders and lived with the consequences, he was well within his right to commandeer the engineering corps and forbid the Saki from approaching Gian.
That they already refused him once was ground for summary execution. As was Na Ki committing to a deal without authorisation, talking back to his general when reprimanded and even at point silencing him with a raised hand - all without offering a word of apology.
That shit just cannot happen. As laidback as Shin is, it at the very least warranted a stern talking to in which Na Ki would be told he would have to find a new home if he did anything of the sort again.
It doesn't matter whether Na Ki believed he did the right thing. The chain of command cannot be so willfully and openly disregarded without some form of consequence.
We should've seen that. Perhaps the first time Na Ki talked backed to him, before allowing the Saki clan leader to continue because Shin was begrudgingly interested in knowing Kan Ki's past as well - though naturally he wouldn't commit to bringing them along.
The Saki could've still eventually come along to Gian via a multitude of ways. Perhaps they would be forbidden to come along but defy those orders and acquit themselves through achieving their goals through mild psychological warfare that Shin could live with; or perhaps the clan leader would swear they would not go near civilians and only interrogate under his supervision; perhaps Kyou Kai could've offered to incorporate the Saki in their siege unit, with a clear warning that she (and Kyou Rei, perhaps taunting in the background) would eliminate them all if they showed a hint of betrayal.
A version of this could've gone down and the plot could've been pushed along without undermining Shin's leadership and values in that roles.
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It's not really enough of an apology to me.
The talking to/warning had to be issued for me to accept that as satisfying writing.
This isn't really accurate.
Shin did not take it well the first time Ka Ryo Ten told him to let her take care of strategy. He doesn't like being questioned or undermined, so if he had that kind of reaction back then, why not with Na Ki? Granted, KRT isn't a soldier and the circumstances of her reunion with Shin complicated things, but still, the same principle was violated, is my point.
For the most part, Shin has had no issue of insubordination and has even been seen doling out physical punishment to his own men for complaining.
That's part of what makes Na Ki's actions so egregious. Not only did he join not that long ago, he is the first to behave in this manner. It should've been a moment of leadership for Shin to nip that in bud.
The talking to/warning had to be issued for me to accept that as satisfying writing.
This isn't really accurate.
Shin did not take it well the first time Ka Ryo Ten told him to let her take care of strategy. He doesn't like being questioned or undermined, so if he had that kind of reaction back then, why not with Na Ki? Granted, KRT isn't a soldier and the circumstances of her reunion with Shin complicated things, but still, the same principle was violated, is my point.
For the most part, Shin has had no issue of insubordination and has even been seen doling out physical punishment to his own men for complaining.
That's part of what makes Na Ki's actions so egregious. Not only did he join not that long ago, he is the first to behave in this manner. It should've been a moment of leadership for Shin to nip that in bud.
When i read again, it's like when he used 'Sun Bin' tactic againts Kochou. And like general Mouten opinion about Kanki. Kanki had only 1 target, it was Kochou head. Nothing else
Kanki has only 1 target, that is conquer Gian. He want to conquer Gian by using Saki, Hanzen.
Hanzen is likely going to be the key support of taking down Gian. While Saki support in psychological trauma for the one thing Karyou Ten worried, that is 'what Will we do next??? After conquer Gian'. Well, Kanki already prepare the answer of Karyou Ten with Kankis way. But the main raider is Hi Shin Army. Gakuka will connect the lack of here and there, as Mouten capable of controlling the situation.
Here is Mouten which is acknowledged by Shouheikun and Ousen. Mouten can command Twice number of his troops easily. Still easily. Even Karyou Ten just being speechless about Mouten capability.
Kanki has only 1 target, that is conquer Gian. He want to conquer Gian by using Saki, Hanzen.
Hanzen is likely going to be the key support of taking down Gian. While Saki support in psychological trauma for the one thing Karyou Ten worried, that is 'what Will we do next??? After conquer Gian'. Well, Kanki already prepare the answer of Karyou Ten with Kankis way. But the main raider is Hi Shin Army. Gakuka will connect the lack of here and there, as Mouten capable of controlling the situation.
Here is Mouten which is acknowledged by Shouheikun and Ousen. Mouten can command Twice number of his troops easily. Still easily. Even Karyou Ten just being speechless about Mouten capability.
Faxx, especially since my boy Denei been roasting Shin since the start 
(just two of the countless examples)
That's because I think you're treating it as too big of an ordeal. It's one of Shin's most obedient commanders who joined from a different unit and has played crucial roles since his joining, ending up making a mistake due to letting his emotions take over. Shins too understanding about his men.
He yelled at Naki again and set him straight, Naki then apologized. Can't really get more serious than that tbh unless y'all wanted Naki to be court marshalled or something by the Unit leaders, which would've been unwarranted. Since as made clear here in the recent spoilers chapter the decision to allow them to come is still down to Shin at end of the day regardless of what Naki told em.
(just two of the countless examples)
That's because I think you're treating it as too big of an ordeal. It's one of Shin's most obedient commanders who joined from a different unit and has played crucial roles since his joining, ending up making a mistake due to letting his emotions take over. Shins too understanding about his men.
He yelled at Naki again and set him straight, Naki then apologized. Can't really get more serious than that tbh unless y'all wanted Naki to be court marshalled or something by the Unit leaders, which would've been unwarranted. Since as made clear here in the recent spoilers chapter the decision to allow them to come is still down to Shin at end of the day regardless of what Naki told em.
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Military discipline doesn't begin at big ordeals. Insubordination is nipped in the bud.
Na Ki was fine at this point.
It's when he commits to a deal with the Saki and talks back that he crosses the line.
Then he silenced his general, for the second raising his hand as though Shin is subordinate to him.
And when reprimanded by Shin, he offers a word of apology with his back turned.
There were plenty of ways for this scene to go down without undermining Shin. As it went down, Shin had every right and reason to give Na Ki a stern talking-to and warning.
This could've been avoided with a "Trust me, captain" or whatever - something to acknowledge Shin trusting in Na Ki's intuition.
Na Ki was fine at this point.
It's when he commits to a deal with the Saki and talks back that he crosses the line.
Then he silenced his general, for the second raising his hand as though Shin is subordinate to him.
And when reprimanded by Shin, he offers a word of apology with his back turned.
There were plenty of ways for this scene to go down without undermining Shin. As it went down, Shin had every right and reason to give Na Ki a stern talking-to and warning.
This could've been avoided with a "Trust me, captain" or whatever - something to acknowledge Shin trusting in Na Ki's intuition.
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Military discipline doesn't begin at big ordeals. Insubordination is nipped in the bud.
Na Ki was fine at this point.
It's when he commits to a deal with the Saki and talks back that he crosses the line.
Then he silenced his general, for the second raising his hand as though Shin is subordinate to him.
And when reprimanded by Shin, he offers a word of apology with his back turned.
There were plenty of ways for this scene to go down without undermining Shin. As it went down, Shin had every right and reason to give Na Ki a stern talking-to and warning.
This could've been avoided with a "Trust me, captain" or whatever - something to acknowledge Shin trusting in Na Ki's intuition.
Na Ki was fine at this point.
It's when he commits to a deal with the Saki and talks back that he crosses the line.
Then he silenced his general, for the second raising his hand as though Shin is subordinate to him.
And when reprimanded by Shin, he offers a word of apology with his back turned.
There were plenty of ways for this scene to go down without undermining Shin. As it went down, Shin had every right and reason to give Na Ki a stern talking-to and warning.
This could've been avoided with a "Trust me, captain" or whatever - something to acknowledge Shin trusting in Na Ki's intuition.
So naki is not loyal to his general?
Na Ki isn’t disloyal, but he was being disrespectful and insubordinate - specifically in a context that couldn’t be allowed to slide without a firm warning.
Again, this scene could’ve gone down the same way with different dialogue and actually made Shin and Na Ki’s relationship stronger.
As it stands, it’s not that big of a deal, but I think it’s too big of a deal to let slide as is.
Again, this scene could’ve gone down the same way with different dialogue and actually made Shin and Na Ki’s relationship stronger.
As it stands, it’s not that big of a deal, but I think it’s too big of a deal to let slide as is.
