Questions & Mysteries Why was Roger not WSS?

[Chaves]

ok explain how you reached that conclusion?

It's not fair to call WB a swordsman who fights for the WSS title when his fighting style is gura-gura attacks

It's not fair to call King a swordsman fighting for the WSS title when his fighting style is extremely broad and his main power comes from his lunarian fire

It's not fair to call Fujitora a swordsman vying for the WSS title when Fujitora's fighting style revolves around his gravitational powers.

It's not fair to call Big Mom a swordsman vying for the WSS title, when his power revolves around his homies' elemental powers.

It's not fair to call Roger and Shanks a swordsmen vying for the WSS title when it's canonically confirmed that haki are the main source of their powers and all the times we've seen it have been using CoC powers that deviate from the style of cuts that Mihawk and Zoro use.

While Mihawk and Zoro are basically over-the-top around their swordsmanship techniques. So they fit that criteria.

ok explain how you reached that conclusion?

A swordsman using a Sword style and using two swords to execute a move isn't swordsmanship now.
Something canonically confirmed in the VivreCards to be Elbaf Swordsmanship, isn't swordsmanship now.

Because it does not align with your made up "logic" & beliefs.

My main argument is that a character who uses swords does not necessarily qualify for the WSS title.

So your main argument is "Oden and Zoro is using two swords so it's clearly a swormanship"

Great way to try to refute me lmao

 

[Shanal]

gust of wind and gust of CoC is not a swordsmanship technique and there is no shit to back it up. I'm still waiting for a solid argument that confirms this being a swordmanship, just using nitoryu naming fallacy that doesn't explain anything.

They are! "Two Swords STYLE: Takanami". You think Zoro should be barred from using one of his oldest techniques vs Mihawk because of your personal agenda?

Ikkoku is officially confirmed to be swordsmanship and it's a shockwave.

One of Oden's named attacks does the same thing and he's a pure swordsman!

There is also nothing that confirms Ikoku being a swordmanship, databook is not reliable enough material and every month something leaks that confirms this

Yeah, no. Disagree if it doesn't fit your agenda alone shows how bizarre up it is.

Literally NOTHING ever says that swordsmanship is limited to cutting techniques only in Manga. It's YOUR head-canon.

What's fact is that two swordsmen use non-cutting techniques with their sword styles, and there's an attack that's officially stated to be swordsmanship.

No matter how many excuses you make, it's literal manga vs your personal view. Even if you pretend DB is wrong when it doesn't fit your agenda, it's still a proven fact that two swordsmen who are known to hell for being a swordsmen use such techniques with their sword styles. Zoro even calls it Niitoryuu before using it.

Do you not realize how fucked up your logic is? Because no matter how many swordsmen using "My sword style: Wind/Shockwave attack!" we show you, you'll just respond with "Yeah, no, that's not swordsmanship! Because my head-canon says it has to be cutting only! And any DB entry you'll show me, I'll say it's wrong!"

 

[ConquistadoR]

My main argument is that a character who uses swords does not necessarily qualify for the WSS title.

So your main argument is "Oden and Zoro is using two swords so it's clearly a swormanship"

Great way to try to refute me lmao

Don't backtrack.
Your argument was that ONLY cutting techniques constitute swordsmanship.
@Shanal and I showed otherwise using three instances where shockwave attacks are confirmed to be swordsmanship.

Now you are grasping at straws to somehow exclude Shanks from Mihawk's title.

 

[BleakAsh]

Of course man.
The duels that were deemed legendary ended in a stalemate or a win for Shanks as he was the one who walked away with the title......

Oh wait.

Oh wait


i never said Shanks won

 

[Malio]

Who was better than him, in his Age?

Ask Oda

 

[Kurozumi D. Trussop]

Mihawk was a hakiman all along?

 

[Buggy D Clown]

It's not fair to call WB a swordsman who fights for the WSS title when his fighting style is gura-gura attacks

It's not fair to call King a swordsman fighting for the WSS title when his fighting style is extremely broad and his main power comes from his lunarian fire

It's not fair to call Fujitora a swordsman vying for the WSS title when Fujitora's fighting style revolves around his gravitational powers.

It's not fair to call Big Mom a swordsman vying for the WSS title, when his power revolves around his homies' elemental powers.

It's not fair to call Roger and Shanks a swordsmen vying for the WSS title when it's canonically confirmed that haki are the main source of their powers and all the times we've seen it have been using CoC powers that deviate from the style of cuts that Mihawk and Zoro use.

While Mihawk and Zoro are basically over-the-top around their swordsmanship techniques. So they fit that criteria.

Why is it not fair and whose criteria is this? Show me panels.
Why is a guy based on a blind swordsman not allowed to use his DF as part of his swordsmanship?
Zoro's first sword dual is with a guy whose style revolves around circus tricks

 

[Shanal]

Meanwhile the swordsmen Zoro fights:

 

[Chaves]

They are! "Two Swords STYLE: Takanami". You think Zoro should be barred from using one of his oldest techniques vs Mihawk because of your personal agenda?

Ikkoku is officially confirmed to be swordsmanship and it's a shockwave.

One of Oden's named attacks does the same thing and he's a pure swordsman!


Yeah, no. Disagree if it doesn't fit your agenda alone shows how bizarre up it is.

Literally NOTHING ever says that swordsmanship is limited to cutting techniques only in Manga. It's YOUR head-canon.

What's fact is that two swordsmen use non-cutting techniques with their sword styles, and there's an attack that's officially stated to be swordsmanship.

No matter how many excuses you make, it's literal manga vs your personal view. Even if you pretend DB is wrong when it doesn't fit your agenda, it's still a proven fact that two swordsmen who are known to hell for being a swordsmen use such techniques with their sword styles. Zoro even calls it Niitoryuu before using it.

Do you not realize how fucked up your logic is? Because no matter how many swordsmen using "My sword style: Wind/Shockwave attack!" we show you, you'll just respond with "Yeah, no, that's not swordsmanship! Because my head-canon says it has to be cutting only! And any DB entry you'll show me, I'll say it's wrong!"

TWO SWORDS STYLE IS NOT AN ARGUMENT
IT IS WRITTEN TWO SWORDS STYLE
NO SHIT IS WRITTEN ABOUT IT'S SWORDMANSHIP OR NOT, JUST THAT THEY USE WINDS AND COC REJECTS IN THEIR TWO SWORD STYLE.

You don't know what an argument is, much less the true meaning of the word ''confirmed''

Wind gusts and CoC gusts are not swordman skills. This is ridiculous

Meanwhile the swordsmen Zoro fights:

Why is it not fair and whose criteria is this?

Because it is reasonable to say that those vying for the title of strongest swordsman primarily need to use swordmanship in order to enter the swordsmanship criteria and vie for the title.

Or else WB, Kizaru, Aokiji, Big Mom would all be framed as swordsmen

 

[HA001]

TWO SWORDS STYLE IS NOT AN ARGUMENT
IT IS WRITTEN IN TWO SWORDS STYLE
NO SHIT IS WRITTEN ABOUT IT'S SWORDMANSHIP OR NOT, JUST THAT THEY USE BURSTS AND COC REJECTS IN THEIR TWO SWORD STYLE.

You don't know what an argument is, much less the true meaning of the word ''confirmed''

Wind gusts and CoC gusts are not swordman skills. This is ridiculous

Because it is reasonable to say that those vying for the title of strongest swordsman primarily need to use swordmanship in order to enter the swordsmanship criteria and vie for the title.

Or else WB, Kizaru, Aokiji, Big Mom would all be framed as swordsmen

We've been told how shanks fights
He has a burning sword style
Just like zoros sword style or kinemons fox fire style

 

[Shanal]

TWO SWORDS STYLE IS NOT AN ARGUMENT
IT IS WRITTEN IN TWO SWORDS STYLE
NO SHIT IS WRITTEN ABOUT IT'S SWORDMANSHIP OR NOT, JUST THAT THEY USE BURSTS AND COC REJECTS IN THEIR TWO SWORD STYLE.

You don't know what an argument is, much less the true meaning of the word ''confirmed''

Wind gusts and CoC gusts are not swordman skills. This is ridiculous

Because it is reasonable to say that those vying for the title of strongest swordsman primarily need to use swordmanship in order to enter the swordsmanship criteria and vie for the title.

Or else WB, Kizaru, Aokiji, Big Mom would all be framed as swordsmen

Lol Zoro specified two sword style and then performs an attack but that attack is not swordsmanship. Even though literally every other attack said in that manner is.

Oden, who is a pure swordsman through and through, performs a named attack but it's not swordsmanship.

BM performs an attack that is literally called swordsmanship but it's not because DB fraud.

All because @Chaves personally believes that non-cutting attacks cannot be part of swordsmanship even though it has never once been stated in the history of entire series.

You seriously don't see what the issue is here lmao...?

Or else WB, Kizaru, Aokiji, Big Mom would all be framed as swordsmen

Thing is, they're not. Neither is Fujitora, even. Nor is Mr.1 or King. Yet Shanks explicitly is stated to be one by the author of the series on more than one occasion.

 

[Chaves]

Lol Zoro specified two sword style and then performs an attack but that attack is not swordsmanship. Must be two haki style.

Yes, because it says: Two Swords Style.
As you see: Swordmanship style

Notable argumentative fallacy

Oden, who is a pure swordsman through and through, performs a named attack but it's not swordsmanship.

Yes, because it says: Two Swords Style.
IT IS NOT WRITTEN: Swordmanship style

BM performs an attack that is literally called swordsmanship but it's not because DB fraud.

Databook is far from being a ''confirmable'' source

All because @Chaves personally believes that non-cutting attacks cannot be part of swordsmanship even though it has never once been stated in the history of entire series.

Confirmation bias is with you.
You who have to prove that CoC powers, meteors, gravity pressure, fire dragon, Misery and etc are all attacks that are part of swordmanship

Thing is, they're not. Neither is Fujitora, even. Nor is Mr.1 or King. Yet Shanks explicitly is stated to be one by the author of the series on more than one occasion.

Source.

Post automatically merged: Aug 28, 2022

He has a burning sword style

Source.

 

[Pringles]

 

[Shanal]

Yes, because it says: Two Swords Style.
As you see: Swordmanship style

Notable argumentative fallacy



Yes, because it says: Two Swords Style.
IT IS NOT WRITTEN: Swordmanship style



Databook is far from being a ''confirmable'' source



Confirmation bias is with you.
You who have to prove that CoC powers, meteors, gravity pressure, fire dragon, Misery and etc are all attacks that are part of swordmanship




Source.

Post automatically merged: Aug 28, 2022

Source.

Name a single attack which is stated with "XXX sword style" but is not a swordsmanship attack outside of your agenda with this single one lmao. The the style thing is literally what Oda uses before every swordsmanship attack.

Do you think Zoro would call attacks utterly unrelated to swordsmanship "Two swords style" as a proper swordsman?

Again, you don't see the issue here? No matter how many examples you give, you'll deny it all just because in your head swordsmanship attacks aren't anything but cutting attacks.

So what's the thing here? You're basically screaming you're unwilling to accept any argument because of a made-up thing you don't even have evidence for.

This is like if I claimed every swordsmanship attack starts with "W" and said "Nope, not a swordsmanship attack" to any other attack you show me that doesn't start with W. All while discrediting Databooks or any official sources that that call it a swordsmanship attack.

Source

Vivre Cards dubbing him as swordsmen (Mihawk is waiting for a swordsman that'd surpass even Shanks).

Red movie booklet calling him a sword master similar to Zoro

Usopp Gallery where Oda directly, with his own hands, labels characters.

But let me guess, you've got excuses for about how all those sources are fraudulent despite Oda directly being involved because agenda doesn't fit, yeah? Oda is lying because he writes in his personality for no apparent reason! It's sword master, so irrelevant to swordsmanship! Vivre Cards are fraud because they got height wrong that one time!

 

[CbShadow]

TWO SWORDS STYLE IS NOT AN ARGUMENT
IT IS WRITTEN TWO SWORDS STYLE
NO SHIT IS WRITTEN ABOUT IT'S SWORDMANSHIP OR NOT, JUST THAT THEY USE WINDS AND COC REJECTS IN THEIR TWO SWORD STYLE.

You don't know what an argument is, much less the true meaning of the word ''confirmed''

Wind gusts and CoC gusts are not swordman skills. This is ridiculous

Because it is reasonable to say that those vying for the title of strongest swordsman primarily need to use swordmanship in order to enter the swordsmanship criteria and vie for the title.

Or else WB, Kizaru, Aokiji, Big Mom would all be framed as swordsmen

The scenes in your post hurts your argument, not helps it.

Oda told us King and Das Bonez aren't swordman. That explains to us that just because a character uses a swords doesn't mean they are a swordsman.

While for Skanks and Roger he calls them swordsman, in the same art that has and calls Zoro and Mihawk swordsman. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

 

[Chaves]

Name a single attack which is stated with "XXX sword style" but is not a swordsmanship attack outside of your agenda with this single one lmao. The the style thing is literally what Oda uses before every swordsmanship attack

You just gave me two examples.
Zoro and Oden's attacks are ''Two Sword Style'' and are not swordsmanship skills.

And not that it means any shit, Zoro even without using a sword, he named the ''Style 0 sword MUTORYU''.
He also called Kamazou's scythe a sword when saying "santoryu".
The sword style is ingrained in Zoro's heart, even when he uses powers outside of his fighting style.

Do you think Zoro would call attacks utterly unrelated to swordsmanship "Two swords style" as a proper swordsman?

He called his arm style ''mutoryu'' so I don't see why not.

Again, you don't see the issue here? No matter how many examples you give, you'll deny it all just because in your head swordsmanship attacks aren't anything but cutting attacks.

You're just taking examples of attacks that aren't slashing like swordsmanship skills. A big nonsense

Vivre Cards dubbing him as swordsmen

Never happened.

(Mihawk is waiting for a swordsman that'd surpass even Shanks).

Clearly speaking of skill.

Red movie booklet calling him a sword master

Kizaru also has excellent sword skills.
Big Mom also has excellent sword skills.
King also has excellent sword skills.
Daz Bones also has excellent sword skills.

I've never argued that Shanks doesn't have excellent sword skills. However, none of them fit the swordsmanship criteria, because those aren't his main powers.

Usopp Gallery where Oda directly, with his own hands, labels characters.

That drawing wasn't of Oda, and he didn't say anything to refute my point.
He saw that the author of the drawing drew several characters with swords, so Oda is just mentioning them as skilled sword users.
If Big Mom, Daz Bones, King and Kizaru were in that cartoon, Oda would say the exact same thing. Even though they're not even swordsmen

 

[Shanal]

You just gave me two examples.
Zoro and Oden's attacks are ''Two Sword Style'' and are not swordsmanship skills.

And not that it means any shit, Zoro even without using a sword, he named the ''Style 0 sword MUTORYU''.
He also called Kamazou's scythe a sword when saying "santoryu".
The sword style is ingrained in Zoro's heart, even when he uses powers outside of his fighting style.



He called his arm style ''mutoryu'' so I don't see why not.



You're just taking examples of attacks that aren't slashing like swordsmanship skills. A big nonsense




Never happened.



Clearly speaking of skill.



Kizaru also has excellent sword skills.
Big Mom also has excellent sword skills.
King also has excellent sword skills.
Daz Bones also has excellent sword skills.

I've never argued that Shanks doesn't have excellent sword skills. However, none of them fit the swordsmanship criteria, because those aren't his main powers.



That drawing wasn't of Oda, and he didn't say anything to refute my point.
He saw that the author of the drawing drew several characters with swords, so Oda is just mentioning them as skilled sword users.
If Big Mom, Daz Bones, King and Kizaru were in that cartoon, Oda would say the exact same thing. Even though they're not even swordsmen

He said swordsmen (keshi), not sword user like Fujitora even though he could've lmao. And he said surpass Shanks, not surpass in skills. He could've specified if he wanted to like in this chapter, but he did not. He made a general statement.

Also, can you prove to me with manga statement that swordsmanship is only limited to cutting attack? Because if you have zero proof, I see no reason to ignore Zoro using one with Niitoryuu or to pretend DB is factually wrong.

After all, it's your headcanon. We can't treat it as fact over official material no matter how unreliable you might consider them. It's far more reliable than you or me talking without evidence. Even Oda himself backed DBs in SBS, but never you or me.

 

[Monkey D Al]

Kaku is a swordsman and uses a 4 sword style.

We don't know Mihawk sword style just like we don't know Roger and Shanks sword style. We don't even know Ryuma's sword style.

Kaku is also a rokushiki and devil fruit user. But we know that mihawk is swordsman, his style we will find out later.

 

[HA001]

He said swordsmen (keshi), not sword user like Fujitora even though he could've lmao. And he said surpass Shanks, not surpass in skills. He could've specified if he wanted to like in this chapter, but he did not. He made a general statement.

Also, can you prove to me with manga statement that swordsmanship is only limited to cutting attack? Because if you have zero proof, I see no reason to ignore Zoro using one with Niitoryuu or to pretend DB is factually wrong.

After all, it's your headcanon. We can't treat it as fact over official material no matter how unreliable you might consider them. It's far more reliable than you or me talking without evidence. Even Oda himself backed DBs in SBS, but never you or me.

Your whole argument is done Laves

A sword that ONLY cuts isn't really a sword from the manga itself


Cry @Chaves

 

[Shanal]

Your whole argument is done Laves

A sword that ONLY cuts isn't really a sword from the manga itself


Cry @Chaves

Pinnacle of swordsmanship is to literally be able to not cut if you don't want to lol