Chapter Discussion WGS title once again confirmed to be mainly ''SKILL'' based

[uyuu]

But Zoro will defeat Mihawk using all three forms of haki. So WSS is not given by winning against Mihawk in just swordsmanship.



If Shanks going all out with his sword and haki can't beat Mihawk and gets his haki infused sword shattered, then he obviously isn't strong enough to beat Mihawk without it.

I see no reason to assume Shanks w/o sword > Shanks w/ sword, specially after Oda has said many times that Shanks has great swordsmanship and is a sword master.

You can quote me over this when Shanks actually shows a haki laserbeam though lmao.

Zoro vs Mihawk will use haki. Doesnt mean that either's haki will be stronger than Shanks. For that to happen, Shanks must aim for WSS instead of OP.

Well i dont think so, even when Shanks with sword is stronger than without, thats not the case with haki. When his haki is stronger, Shanks can always choose to hide his haki in last moment after Mihawk's haki is depleted from the final clash, whether he has to sacrifice Gryphon or just choose to bulldoze away using CoC infusion. Doesnt mean Shanks will be the WSS even if Shanks' sword doesnt break tho, when you beat someone using CoC as primary damage dealer, then you are more of a haki master than a sword master. So Shanks being a weaker swordsman doesn't change his haki strength. Winning by having a better haki sword doesn't mean you're the WSS, just better sum of different powers. Just like how Roger never was WSS powerlevel but is recognized to stand at the peak by his haki powerlevel.

 

[gz89]

Why are you guys still trying to argue with "muh hakiman" people ?

They think that Shanks is not a swordsman because his title box doesnt state " The second strongest swordsman in the world".

Like Oda would ever do shit like this. We never saw a "2nd best title in WSM or WSC" same case is WSS.

Shanks is a swordsman with super duper haki. Guess what, Mihawk is also but he is the strongest.

 

[Ashish]

If mihawk=100
How much is shanks??
Mine
Shanks=99.5

 

[Shanal]

Zoro vs Mihawk will use haki. Doesnt mean that either's haki will be stronger than Shanks. For that to happen, Shanks must aim for WSS instead of OP.

Okay but if Shanks can win in Zoro's position already, then Shanks is true WSS in actuality. I'm not saying he's competing, I'm just talking about what the title means. If you have it without deserving it among all swordsmen in the world regardless of whether they compete, you're a fraud.

It's "World's Strongest Swordsman", after all, not "World's Strongest Swordsman among Swordsmen who compete for it"

Well i dont think so, even when Shanks with sword is stronger than without, thats not the case with haki. When his haki is stronger, Shanks can always choose to hide his haki in last moment after Mihawk's haki is depleted from the final clash, whether he has to sacrifice Gryphon or just choose to bulldoze away using CoC infusion. Doesnt mean Shanks will be the WSS even if Shanks' sword doesnt break tho, when you beat someone using CoC as primary damage dealer, then you are more of a haki master than a sword master. So Shanks being a weaker swordsman doesn't change his haki strength. Winning by having a better haki sword doesn't mean you're the WSS, just better sum of different powers. Just like how Roger never was WSS powerlevel but is recognized to stand at the peak by his haki powerlevel.

If Shanks can match Mihawk all the way until end while hiding his haki, then he surely can defeat Mihawk in the sword fight + all-out haki usage. That means he's stronger as a swordsman.

You'll have to prove to me that Shanks w/o a sword > Shanks w/ a sword, or that Shanks has direct combat abilities that can't be applied on sword or are stronger w/o sword application.

 

[zzShinichi]

If mihawk=100
How much is shanks??
Mine
Shanks=99.5

99 or 99.5 is fine, both can totally defeat eachother.

 

[ConquistadoR]

Why are you guys still trying to argue with "muh hakiman" people ?

They think that Shanks is not a swordsman because his title box doesnt state " The second strongest swordsman in the world".

Like Oda would ever do shit like this. We never saw a "2nd best title in WSM or WSC" same case is WSS.

Shanks is a swordsman with super duper haki. Guess what, Mihawk is also but he is the strongest.

CoC laserbeams & CoC bombs from his stump arm

 

[uyuu]

Would you say Shanks is stronger than Kaido because his Haki is stronger?

No. I have to consider many things. Shanks' passiveness, Kaidou's drunken form, Susanoo, CoC Genkidama, durability, WSC title, etc. If i just pay attention to title alone, then i'd definitely bet on Kaidou.

But for me, Shanks is just not simple. How Admirals treated him was just insane. And whenever i rewatch Shanks casually blitzing lightspeed bullets...i dunno Man.

 

[zzShinichi]

No. I have to consider many things. Shanks' passiveness, Kaidou's drunken form, Susanoo, CoC Genkidama, durability, WSC title, etc. If i just pay attention to title alone, then i'd definitely bet on Kaidou.

But for me, Shanks is just not simple. How Admirals treated him was just insane. And whenever i rewatch Shanks casually blitzing lightspeed bullets...i dunno Man.

Then there's no point arguing my friend.

 

[Shanal]

No. I have to consider many things. Shanks' passiveness, Kaidou's drunken form, Susanoo, CoC Genkidama, durability, WSC title, etc. If i just pay attention to title alone, then i'd definitely bet on Kaidou.

But for me, Shanks is just not simple. How Admirals treated him was just insane. And whenever i rewatch Shanks casually blitzing lightspeed bullets...i dunno Man.

The thing is, you can personally believe all that, but you don't have to pretend titles are meaningless lol.

If Shanks is strong enough to defeat Kaido, then Shanks is strongest creature in the world in reality. Just like if Shanks is strong enough to defeat Mihawk in an all-out swordsman fight, then Shanks is strongest swordsman in the world in reality

Playing double game is shit. You can't pretend that characters genuinely deserve the title yet try to claim something that essentially means if Shanks was to compete for it, he'd get it at the same time.

 

[uyuu]

Okay but if Shanks can win in Zoro's position already, then Shanks is true WSS in actuality.


If Shanks can match Mihawk all the way until end while hiding his haki, then he surely can defeat Mihawk in the sword fight + all-out haki usage. That means he's stronger as a swordsman.

You'll have to prove to me that Shanks w/o a sword > Shanks w/ a sword, or that Shanks has direct combat abilities that can't be applied on sword or are stronger w/o sword application.

"Then Shanks is the true WSS" disagree again for the reason i mentioned. If your haki is more capable of dealing damage than your sword or swordmanship, then you are more of a haki user rather than a swordsman.

Kaidou used his CoC at max in dragon form, even tho he should use his kanabo with CoC. And Shanks being able to send CoC stunner from miles away, and sent blue fire beam as the final attack projectile to Uta in Film Red, just makes his sword an additional tool to point his haki beams for me right now.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

The thing is, you can personally believe all that, but you don't have to pretend titles are meaningless lol.

If Shanks is strong enough to defeat Kaido, then Shanks is strongest creature in the world in reality. Just like if Shanks is strong enough to defeat Mihawk in an all-out swordsman fight, then Shanks is strongest swordsman in the world in reality

Playing double game is shit. You can't pretend that characters genuinely deserve the title yet try to claim something that essentially means if Shanks was to compete for it, he'd get it at the same time.

What who say title is meaningless tho. I didnt force Shanks > Mihawk to anyone, and i didnt think Mihawk as a Commander level guy.

Kaidou's title is different since its living organism or living being, its so wide. Using title as the base, Kaidou will win. I just say that Shanks is not simple for me. I don't even argue he'd win against Kaidou do i? I'm just unable to tell. Trying to be objective, i still pick Kaidou since he's the WSS. I just say that Shanks has some feats that are not inferior to strongest titles.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

Then there's no point arguing my friend.

Sorry, i'm tired as well replying to Mihawk hardcore fandom that constantly talk about powerlevel. As you know i don't like prolonged powerlevel arguments since i'm not that patient or attached to powerlevel but i feel like i've been attacked constantly by a powerlevel debate stampede lol.

 

[Shanal]

"Then Shanks is the true WSS" disagree again for the reason i mentioned. If your haki is more capable of dealing damage than your sword or swordmanship, then you are more of a haki user rather than a swordsman.

Kaidou used his CoC at max in dragon form, even tho he should use his kanabo with CoC. And Shanks being able to send CoC stunner from miles away, and sent blue fire beam as the final attack projectile to Uta in Film Red, just makes his sword an additional tool to point his haki beams for me right now.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

What who say title is meaningless tho. I didnt force Shanks > Mihawk to anyone, and i didnt think Mihawk as a Commander level guy.

Kaidou's title is different since its living organism or living being, its so wide. Using title as the base, Kaidou will win. I just say that Shanks is not simple for me. I don't even argue he'd win against Kaidou do i? I'm just unable to tell. Trying to be objective, i still pick Kaidou since he's the WSS. I just say that Shanks has some feats that are not inferior to strongest titles.

The issue is that what you say only makes sense if you think Shanks w/o his sword is stronger than Shanks w/ sword in direct combat. Or if he can do something in direct combat that he can't do with his sword.

You call Shanks' blade a tool for using his haki, yet isn't that literally everyone else's sword among top tiers? Not every swordsmanship ability is cutting.

Swordsmanship is broad. Ikkoku is a blast-type attack and is canonically confirmed to be swordsmanship. Kinemon forming fire and Brook freezing people is swordsmanship. Zoro creating dragon of blue fire with Hiryu Kaen is canonically swordsmanship. Oden and Zoro creating wind shockwaves that send their opponents flying is officially swordsmanship.

It's not like Shanks' attack is somehow super special and using things other than his swordsmanship + haki, like everyone else. It's not like Law or BM creating a sword cannon using homies, either.

And, again, what you said about Kaido is fine and all. If you just want to personally believe Shanks is just all that and his feats do more to him than titles do, then you're free to. But at least have the courtesy of giving Mihawk same "objective benefit" as you give Kaido. He does have title. But you always pretend Shanks is clear-cut stronger or a notch above.

 

[Artem]

So everybody agree that.

Zoro>Law swordsmanship.
Law>Zoro on strenght?.

Law is a swordsman with DF.
Fujitora is a Swordsman with DF.

Somes swordsman in One Piece Doesn't has only Swords to fight, or uses Swords as complement of his fighting style.
Like BM,WB and King.
Somes are pure Swordsman like,Zoro,Oden,Mihawk,Rayleigh and Vista.
And theres somes are example of Swordsman who has soemthing to complement his Swordsmanship.
Like Law and Fujitora.

Shanks can be Pure swordsman like Mihawk, Can be like Law.

But one thing is clear while Mihawk is hyped about his Swords, Shanks is in his Haki.

1 Fencing Zoro>>>Lol. 2 Zoro Hacks>>>Lol. 3 Acoc Zoro>>>>>> no acoc Lol. 4 Endurance Zoro>> Endurance Lol (according to lo, it is impossible to fight without 30 bones). 5 Hacks > Fruits. And what the hell kind of superiority are you talking about, Lol? Zoro will destroy this back-stabbing rat.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

Not if the haki is more powerful and cause the main damage more than the swordsmanship itself.

Okay if i accept your statement, so Kaidou actually used his kanabo in his final attack and his actual title is the world strongest kanaboman, and Shanks used swordsmanship to revert Greenbull's tree form. Kaidou also actually said Roger is at the peak because swordsmanship transcends all.

...but those stuff didnt actually happened did they. Kaidou considers haki to be more important than swordsmanship or kanabomanship or any weapon-ship, so your argument about this can be countered by using specific points in the manga.

Zoro is not a swordsman turns out? His fencing without khaki did not cause Kaido any damage, nor did Kingo. Only his haki and acoc damaged them. With the scar, Kaido singled out the ROYAL WILL as the main source of the scar.

 

[WizardKing]

''HAS EVEN GREATER SWORD SKILLS THAN THE RED-HAIRED EMPEROR''

''GREATEST SWORDSMAN''












And many more :cheers:

Shanks > Mihawk

Yonko > Mihawk

Both confirmed.

Only skill HAHAHA

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Well bring me the statement of Kaidou placing Roger's swordsmanship as the most important then.

Irrelevant.

Or Mihawk's shadow as the one Kaidou directly remembered instead of Shanks.

Also irrelevant.

Or Shanks magically losing his CoC without his sword.

Or Zoro losing his CoC without his sword. That's not going to work.

Or Mihawk making Admirals notice him in Marineford instead of having a cold sweat over Shanks.

Mihawk had a cold sweat over Shanks?

Or Jozu praising Mihawk's haki instead of Shanks' haki.

Another irrelevant statement.

You are the one spamming "haki is still part of swordsmanship"

Not my fault you're repeating debunked talking points like a broken record. Maybe get some new material.

so bring me something that show that being a swordsman / sword master is superior compared to being a haki user / haki master.

Never said swordsmanship is superior to Haki. I just said Haki isn't a fighting style. It enhances a fighting style.

You are either desperate or very low IQ.[/QUOTE]

 

[uyuu]

The issue is that what you say only makes sense if you think Shanks w/o his sword is stronger than Shanks w/ sword in direct combat. Or if he can do something in direct combat that he can't do with his sword.

You call Shanks' blade a tool for using his haki, yet isn't that literally everyone else's sword among top tiers? Not every swordsmanship ability is cutting.

Swordsmanship is broad. Ikkoku is a blast-type attack and is canonically confirmed to be swordsmanship. Kinemon forming fire and Brook freezing people is swordsmanship. Zoro creating dragon of blue fire with Hiryu Kaen is canonically swordsmanship. Oden and Zoro creating wind shockwaves that send their opponents flying is officially swordsmanship.

It's not like Shanks' attack is somehow super special and using things other than his swordsmanship + haki, like everyone else. It's not like Law or BM creating a sword cannon using homies, either.

And, again, what you said about Kaido is fine and all. If you just want to personally believe Shanks is just all that and his feats do more to him than titles do, then you're free to. But at least have the courtesy of giving Mihawk same "objective benefit" as you give Kaido. He does have title. But you always pretend Shanks is clear-cut stronger or a notch above.

You saying Shanks without sword is stronger than Shanks with swords makes not much sense tho imo, its like your previous premise of Mihawk asked Shanks to turn off his haki before they fight. If Shanks fight without his sword its handicapping himself. If Shanks fight without his haki its handicapping himself even more.

No i'm not saying Shanks is super special. He's similar to BM and Law and Mihawk as well, in the sense of he has his sword and other powers. BM's ulti is not swordsmanship either, its swordsmanship and many other elements. In Shanks' case its swordsmanship and haki, but his haki is more dominant than his swordsmanship, thats it.

Shanks threw around his haki to stun Greenbull, he made his haki into blue firebeam in film Red, thats not being a swordsman as his ultimate attack. Zoro exclude King just because the sword is weird and he kicks people and he uses magma. From that alone, Shanks using DF-Canceller from miles away is even more not limited already to being just a swordsman which is guaranteed to lose by WSS.

WSC is different from WSS. WSC is among the living beings, WSS is limited among swordsman. WSC is race and species and organism stuff while in real life, WSS is not invinciblw against other swordsman who used other weapons, so you narrowing other powers down under WSS is among the basic things i disagree with since the start. Thats why i dont view Mihawk's title guarantee him a win against Shanks, since people give asterisks about Mihawk, give Shanks advantage in some moments esp regarding haki, etc.

 

[zzShinichi]

"Then Shanks is the true WSS" disagree again for the reason i mentioned. If your haki is more capable of dealing damage than your sword or swordmanship, then you are more of a haki user rather than a swordsman.

Kaidou used his CoC at max in dragon form, even tho he should use his kanabo with CoC. And Shanks being able to send CoC stunner from miles away, and sent blue fire beam as the final attack projectile to Uta in Film Red, just makes his sword an additional tool to point his haki beams for me right now.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

What who say title is meaningless tho. I didnt force Shanks > Mihawk to anyone, and i didnt think Mihawk as a Commander level guy.

Kaidou's title is different since its living organism or living being, its so wide. Using title as the base, Kaidou will win. I just say that Shanks is not simple for me. I don't even argue he'd win against Kaidou do i? I'm just unable to tell. Trying to be objective, i still pick Kaidou since he's the WSS. I just say that Shanks has some feats that are not inferior to strongest titles.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

Sorry, i'm tired as well replying to Mihawk hardcore fandom that constantly talk about powerlevel. As you know i don't like prolonged powerlevel arguments since i'm not that patient or attached to powerlevel but i feel like i've been attacked constantly by a powerlevel debate stampede lol.

Don't let it get to you. This is a Mihawk' wank week. We Mihawk bros (or Zoro bros) waited 10 years for this. You will not win this. Better wait till further chapters to bounce back.

 

[uyuu]

Irrelevant.



Also irrelevant.



Or Zoro losing his CoC without his sword. That's not going to work.



Mihawk had a cold sweat over Shanks?

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant.

Hey, irrelevant.

Lol thats you ignoring stuff. You cant find Admirals having cold sweat over Mihawk? No? They didnt even pay attention to Mihawk? But they had it feeling Shanks' CoC. So yeah keep saying irrelevant maybe it'll convince yourself to ignore stuff.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

Don't let it get to you. This is a Mihawk' wank week. We Mihawk bros (or Zoro bros) waited 10 years for this. You will not win this. Better wait till further chapters to bounce back.

No Man i was just a lone man walking at the WG streets minding my own business and just posting without quoting anyone and suddenly those powerlevel guys attack me with and forcing me to agree with them i just defended myself lol.

 

[Tejas]

Skill

Power

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Lol thats you ignoring stuff.

That's just me pointing out those aren't actual arguments.

You cant find Admirals having cold sweat over Mihawk? No? They didnt even pay attention to Mihawk? But they had it feeling Shanks' CoC.

Show me an Admiral dealing with Mihawk.

So yeah keep saying irrelevant maybe it'll convince yourself to ignore stuff.

It is irrelevant. Not having panels of Aokiji doing X or Y at Mihawk's presence literally does nothing to prove your point. You're just making up rules, meaning you have fake arguments.

 

[Shanal]

You saying Shanks without sword is stronger than Shanks with swords makes not much sense tho imo, its like your previous premise of Mihawk asked Shanks to turn off his haki before they fight. If Shanks fight without his sword its handicapping himself. If Shanks fight without his haki its handicapping himself even more.

No i'm not saying Shanks is super special. He's similar to BM and Law and Mihawk as well, in the sense of he has his sword and other powers. BM's ulti is not swordsmanship either, its swordsmanship and many other elements. In Shanks' case its swordsmanship and haki, but his haki is more dominant than his swordsmanship, thats it.

But he has no attacks that are canonically proven to be like Law's or BM's or to anything. No direct combat attacks that he can't utilize with his blade or are proven to be irrelevant to swords or stronger without sword than with sword, etc.

Even if we for a moment pretend World's STRONGEST swordsman doesn't mean you can defeat all other swordsmen, it's just your personal opinion that Shanks has far more when it comes to direct combat.

Ikkoku is a swordsmanship blast. Zoro can form blue dragons out of swordsmanship. Kinemon and Brook attack with fire and ice. Why is Shanks using a fire dragon attack WITH HIS SWORD a big deal?

And as far as title debate goes, if WSC is being stronger and being able to beat any creature, then WSS is being stronger than and being able to beat any swordsman. There has not been a single instance in Manga where WSS was limited to certain techniques to begin with. It's being strongest among all swordsmen.

Shanks threw around his haki to stun Greenbull. Shanks using DF-Canceller from miles away is even more not limited already to being just a swordsman which is guaranteed to lose by WSS.

That's your personal interpretation that almost every neutral wouldn't agree with. Shanks never stunned GB nor did he cancel his DF abilities. Did GB say he couldn't move? No. Did GB say he can't use his DF anymore? No. He was just shook

Hell, you know who canonically DID stun someone?

And afterward, Monet was canonically stated to not be able to use her logia properly, too, which was never the case with GB.

So are you going to say Zoro has same abilities? Ofc, on a lesser scale, as GB >>>> Monet.

You're looking way too much into it. Shanks didn't send a DF nullifying, stun-locking beam lol. He just flared his CoC and made GB shook. Just like how Zoro made Monet too shook.