Chapter Discussion WGS title once again confirmed to be mainly ''SKILL'' based

[Shanal]

Your conclusion dont have the ability to debunk people's conclusion. Shanks doesnt have to use a sword to use his CoA or CoC infusion to beat people up. He can use his sword, his dick, the air around him, his shoulder blow, whatever. He didnt need his sword and Greenbull's power is deactivated. So its independent power. Nothing you say about Roger's style is swordsmanship change that Roger is also a better haki user than he is a swordsman according to Kaidou. To make haki just an enhancement, Shanks must not be able to use haki without his sword like his warning to Greenbull. He must not be able to use CoC infusion which is an independent power to beat people up. He must not be able to send haki projectiles like in film Red. Which is why your statement of haki unable to be its own power, is your own wishful thinking about it.

Mihawk beats the shit out of Shanks while both are going all out with their haki and are using a sword.

Shanks pouring every bit of haki and everything he has in his strongest sword attack and he'd get beaten by Mihawk.

Sure, if you think Shanks has special way of fighting that is irrelevant to swords (and nothing passive, like CoO or CoO killing because that's not direct combat, even Zoro has CoO), then your argument can make sense.

I somehow doubt unarmed Shanks > armed Shanks with sword that he has been using since kid, though.

 

[uyuu]

Mihawk beats the shit out of Shanks while both are going all out with their haki and are using a sword.

Shanks pouring every bit of haki and everything he has in his strongest sword attack and he'd get beaten by Mihawk.

Sure, if you think Shanks has special way of fighting that is irrelevant to swords (and nothing passive, like CoO or CoO killing because that's not direct combat, even Zoro has CoO), then your argument can make sense.

I somehow doubt unarmed Shanks > armed Shanks with sword that he has been using since kid, though.

- "Shanks use all his haki and he'd get beaten by Mihawk" is your own made up stuff tho? Since WSS+haki > swordsman+haki doesn't work in real logic. There are levels to both.

- CoC infusion is not direct combat? CoC infusion or CoA has to use a sword? You can call it special or whatever. Shanks doesnt have to use his sword to do CoC infusion attack. Shanks is free to use any kind of bodypart to do CoC infusion, even his left arm stump. Whether or not he choose to also use his sword and imbue it with CoC is separate from whether he can attack without a sword, which he just used against GB from the sea, or from film Red blue projectile.

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Your conclusion dont have the ability to debunk people's conclusion.

It does if my conclusions are outright from the manga and yours isn't.

Shanks doesnt have to use a sword to use his CoA or CoC infusion to beat people up. He can use his sword, his dick, the air around him, his shoulder blow, whatever.

Does Shanks fight best with swordsmanship? Yes or no. (Swordsmanship imbued in Haki still counts.)

He didnt need his sword and Greenbull's power is deactivated. So its independent power.

I've debunked this point.

Spoiler

(3) Shanks shutting off Ryokugyu's DF is a byproduct of his broke CoC, and if Shanks's Haki is that broke, then Mihawk needs broke CoC or whatever will compensate (he forged a black blade) in order to stand to what would be broke swordsmanship.

Nothing you say about Roger's style is swordsmanship change that Roger is also a better haki user than he is a swordsman according to Kaidou.

So Roger is still a swordsman? Great. Thanks for proving nothing but my point.

 

[uyuu]

It does if my conclusions are outright from the manga and yours isn't.



Does Shanks fight best with swordsmanship? Yes or no. (Swordsmanship imbued in Haki still counts.)



I've debunked this point.





So Roger is still a swordsman? Great. Thanks for proving nothing but my point.

Well my conclusion is from the manga while yours isnt. Kaidou said so, Shanks' attack said so.

Does Law fight best with his DF? Using his sword to channel his DF still count as DF use. Does Shanks fight best with his haki? Using his sword to send his haki still count as haki use.

Is Roger still a swordsman? Yeah, who argue Roger or Shanks as not a swordsman? No one relevant remember their swordsmanship tho? You are saying that WSS in real life will not be defeated by a weaker swordsman who shoots lasers from his sword, thats what you're arguing when you say WSS is a victory guarantee against other swordsmen.

 

[Shanal]

- "Shanks use all his haki and he'd get beaten by Mihawk" is your own made up stuff tho? Since WSS+haki > swordsman+haki doesn't work in real logic. There are levels to both.

- CoC infusion is not direct combat? CoC infusion or CoA has to use a sword? You can call it special or whatever. Shanks doesnt have to use his sword to do CoC infusion attack. Shanks is free to use any kind of bodypart to do CoC infusion, even his left arm stump. Whether or not he choose to also use his sword and imbue it with CoC is separate from whether he can attack without a sword, which he just used against GB from the sea, or from film Red blue projectile.

WSS is a title decided by the swordsman who wins the swordsman fight. Zoro said he'll get it by defeating Mihawk and Zoro is using all three forms of haki, so yeah.

Who said CoC infusion isn't direct attack? Ofc it is. Zoro will use to to defeat Mihawk.

If you think Shanks' CoC infusion w/o his great sword > Mihawk > Shanks CoC infusion with his great sword, be my guest. But as long as Mihawk is WSS, he will defeat Shanks using CoC infusion with his sword and going all out that way, no matter how much haki Shanks uses or pours into his attacks.

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Kaidou said so

No he hasn't.

Does Shanks fight best with his haki? Using his sword to send his haki still count as haki use.

That is the stupidest fucking question ever. Everyone fights best with Haki.

No one relevant remember their swordsmanship tho?

Their main fighting style is still swordsmanship unless proven otherwise.

 

[uyuu]

WSS is a title decided by the swordsman who wins. Zoro said he'll get it by defeating Mihawk and Zoro is mastering all three forms of haki, so yeah.

Who said CoC infusion isn't direct attack? Ofc it is. Zoro will use to to defeat Mihawk.

If you think Shanks' CoC infusion w/o his great sword > Mihawk > Shanks CoC infusion with his great sword, be my guest.

WSS is decided by swordsman who wins. Good for you, nothing in the manga support that tho. Zoro will master 3 forms of haki, good for him. Not a direct comparison unlike what you've want tho, mastering 3 forms of haki is not comparing his haki against Shanks.

Yea you always come up with silly conditions like Mihawk will ask Shanks to turn off his haki and Shanks will deliberately throw his sword away to be the strongest haki user. Doesn't work. Everyone use every power they have. Just because Shanks' haki is more prominent than his sword, it doesnt turn Shanks into WSS when Mihawk's sword is still better.

 

[Shanal]

WSS is decided by swordsman who wins. Good for you, nothing in the manga support that tho. Zoro will master 3 forms of haki, good for him. Not a direct comparison unlike what you've want tho, mastering 3 forms of haki is not comparing his haki against Shanks.

Yea you always come up with silly conditions like Mihawk will ask Shanks to turn off his haki and Shanks will deliberately throw his sword away to be the strongest haki user. Doesn't work. Everyone use every power they have. Just because Shanks' haki is more prominent than his sword, it doesnt turn Shanks into WSS when Mihawk's sword is still better.

Zoro said he will get WSS by defeating Mihawk many times.

So, as long as Mihawk is WSS and Shanks is SM, Mihawk defeats Shanks in a swordsman fight every fight. Shanks going completely all out with his haki in his sword attacks would result in Shanks losing vs Mihawk.

Don't you see, I'm agreeing with your notion that it doesn't matter if Shanks chooses to not use blade. I'm just telling you that if Shanks is using a blade to fight, he'll get defeated by Mihawk :D

Zoro can also choose not to use his blade for his haki stuff. Literally every swordsman can.

 

[uyuu]

No he hasn't.



That is the stupidest fucking question ever. Everyone fights best with Haki.



Their main fighting style is still swordsmanship unless proven otherwise.

Yea Kaidou has. Roger's swords or Roger as a swordsman is dismissed by Kaidou, but Roger's haki was mentioned by Kaidou.

Well if you think everyone fight best with haki, then everyone also fight best with their weapon. Whether their sword or haki will be the bigger damage, thats the difference between being a stronger swordsman or stronger haki user. Will Shanks be WSS if he beat Mihawk purely using CoC hax, after Gryphon is crushed by Yoru? If you say Shanks will be WSS if the fight goes that way, then i cant argue against senseless argument.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

Zoro said he will get WSS by defeating Mihawk many times.

So, as long as Mihawk is WSS and Shanks is SM, Mihawk defeats Shanks in a swordsman fight every fight. Shanks going completely all out with his haki in his sword attacks would result in Shanks losing vs Mihawk.

Don't you see, I'm agreeing with your notion that it doesn't matter if Shanks chooses to not use blade. I'm just telling you that if Shanks is using a blade to fight, he'll get defeated by Mihawk :D

Zoro can also choose not to use his blade for his haki stuff. Literally every swordsman can.

So long as Mihawk is WSS and Shanks is a SM, Mihawk beat Shanks in the fight. Shanks with his haki all out result in him beaten by Mihawk. Good for you, except again you have no manga support so its purely subjective from your part. While you're at it, make Kaidou say Roger is WSS instead of praising his haki just like Brannew praise Mihawk swordsmanship over Shanks instead of saying Mihawk wins.

Shanks get defeated by Mihawk...keep repeating this to convince yourself before try to convince others without basis.

 

[Shanal]

Yea Kaidou has. Roger's swords or Roger as a swordsman is dismissed by Kaidou, but Roger's haki was mentioned by Kaidou.

Well if you think everyone fight best with haki, then everyone also fight best with their weapon. Whether their sword or haki will be the bigger damage, thats the difference between being a stronger swordsman or stronger haki user. Will Shanks be WSS if he beat Mihawk purely using CoC hax, after Gryphon is crushed by Yoru? If you say Shanks will be WSS if the fight goes that way, then i cant argue against senseless argument.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

So long as Mihawk is WSS and Shanks is a SM, Mihawk beat Shanks in the fight. Shanks with his haki all out result in him beaten by Mihawk. Good for you, except again you have no manga support so its purely subjective from your part. While you're at it, make Kaidou say Roger is WSS instead of praising his haki just like Brannew praise Mihawk swordsmanship over Shanks instead of saying Mihawk wins.

Shanks get defeated by Mihawk...keep repeating this to convince yourself before try to convince others without basis.

I do have Manga support. Zoro proves that as long as he beats Mihawk, which he will using every haki, he gets WSS. Said so many times.

I don't see Shanks without sword being as strong as Shanks with sword, or even close. Shanks has shown no direct combat ability that can't be applied on or is stronger without sword than it is with sword, either. So, yeah. If you head-canon otherwise, good for you.

 

[ConquistadoR]

Why is Zoro improving his Haki instead of SwOrDsMaNShIp? He wants to be WSS right?

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Yea Kaidou has.

That's not actual confirmation, that's confirmation bias.

Well if you think everyone fight best with haki, then everyone also fight best with their weapon.

 

[uyuu]

I do have Manga support. Zoro proves that as long as he beats Mihawk, which he will using every haki, he gets WSS. Said so many times.

I don't see Shanks without sword being as strong as Shanks with sword, or even close. Shanks has shown no direct combat ability that can't be applied on or is stronger without sword than it is with sword, either. So, yeah. If you head-canon otherwise, good for you.

What you say doesnt have anything to do with WSS will win or not between Shanks and Mihawk lol. WSS is about who wins between Zoro and Mihawk, unless you say Shanks aim for the WSS title and not One Piece / PK. Even if you force yourself to use that one, Zoro said he'll never lose again and broke the promise by losing.

Why shouldnt i use headcanon when you use headcanon everytime and say WSS is about the one who wins? You are the one spamming "if Shanks use all his haki and sword then Mihawk still win since WSS wins against Shanks" and made headcanons in every premises you took lol.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

That's not actual confirmation, that's confirmation bias.

Well bring me the statement of Kaidou placing Roger's swordsmanship as the most important then. Or Mihawk's shadow as the one Kaidou directly remembered instead of Shanks. Or Shanks magically losing his CoC without his sword. Or Mihawk making Admirals notice him in Marineford instead of having a cold sweat over Shanks. Or Jozu praising Mihawk's haki instead of Shanks' haki. You are the one spamming "haki is still part of swordsmanship", so bring me something that show that being a swordsman / sword master is superior compared to being a haki user / haki master.

 

[Shanal]

What you say doesnt have anything to do with WSS will win or not between Shanks and Mihawk lol. WSS is about who wins between Zoro and Mihawk, unless you say Shanks aim for the WSS title and not One Piece / PK. Even if you force yourself to use that one, Zoro said he'll never lose again and broke the promise by losing.

Why shouldnt i use headcanon when you use headcanon everytime and say WSS is about the one who wins? You are the one spamming "if Shanks use all his haki and sword then Mihawk still win since WSS wins against Shanks" and made headcanons in every premises you took lol.

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2022

Well bring me the statement of Kaidou placing Roger's swordsmanship as the most important then. Or Mihawk's shadow as the one Kaidou directly remembered instead of Shanks. Or Shanks magically losing his CoC without his sword. Or Mihawk making Admirals notice him in Marineford instead of having a cold sweat over Shanks. Or Jozu praising Mihawk's haki instead of Shanks' haki. You are the one spamming "haki is still part of swordsmanship", so bring me something that show that being a swordsman / sword master is superior compared to being a haki user / haki master.

I'm just talking about how WSS title works. If you think Shanks would win if he competes for it, that's okay. Then Shanks is true WSS, that's all. Shanks has shown no direct combat that can't be applied to swords or is better without swords than it is with sword.

You literally cannot deny the simple fact that WSS is a title that's won by the swordsman who wins. That's all there is to it. You have to defeat Mihawk in swordsman fight where you're allowed to go all out with your haki.

So, Mihawk is only WSS in reality if he's able to defeat Shanks when both are going all out using their swords and haki.

And Zoro ending up breaking a promise doesn't invalidate the meaning behind promise. It's not like he broke it on purpose; he still wanted to win at all cost. And even then, he never really lost to a swordsman since then. He lost to Enel and Kuma.

 

[T.D.A]

“Strongest Swordsman in the world” /thread

 

[Artem]

Mihawkstans will listen to anything but the truth. Even if you tell them 10 times that "although Mihawk may be stronger swordsman than Shanks, Mihawk's title doesn't confirm he's above Shanks and it's still very likely for Shanks to be stronger", they won't listen to you

swordswoman and her techniques are more perfect than those of the swordsman Cavendish. But then Hakuba wakes up and thanks to her speed dominates and defeats her? Which of them will be the STRONGEST swordsman? Not the "most skilled" but the strongest?

 

[uyuu]

I'm just talking about how WSS title works. If you think Shanks would win if he competes for it, that's okay. Then Shanks is true WSS, that's all.

And Zoro ending up breaking a promise doesn't invalidate the meaning behind promise. It's not like he broke it on purpose. And even then, he never really lost to a swordsman since then.

"How WSS title works" in other words your proud headcanon?

No. I do think Shanks will win but regardless of the result, i still view him not as WSS since he's a weaker swordsman. Oda just differentiate strongest swordsman and strongest haki user, since haki is an energy which can be used to do whatever. Thats literally my stance since the start.

If Shanks is WSS then he will win against Mihawk in swordsmanship like Brannew emphasized. But just like i previously respond to other member: if Gryphon is broken or whatever against Mihawk's final CoA+CoC technique, but Shanks use a CoC laserbeam from his broken sword or CoC bomb from his arm stump and beat Mihawk with it, that scenario is not Shanks being WSS at all is it?

 

[Shanal]

"How WSS title works" in other words your proud headcanon?

No. Shanks is not WSS since he's a weaker swordsman. Oda just differentiate swordsman and haki user since haki is an energy which can be used to do whatever. Thats literally my stance since the start.

If Shanks is WSS then he will win against Mihawk in swordsmanship like Brannew emphasized. But just like i previously respond to other member: if Gryphon is broken or whatever against Mihawk's final CoA+CoC technique, but Shanks use a CoC laserbeam from his broken sword and beat Mihawk, that scenario is not Shanks being WSS at all is it?

But Zoro will defeat Mihawk using all three forms of haki. So WSS is not given by winning against Mihawk in just swordsmanship.

if Gryphon is broken or whatever against Mihawk's final CoA+CoC technique, but Shanks use a CoC laserbeam from his broken sword and beat Mihawk, that scenario is not Shanks being WSS at all is it?

If Shanks going all out with his sword and haki can't beat Mihawk and gets his haki infused sword shattered, then he obviously isn't strong enough to beat Mihawk without it.

I see no reason to assume Shanks w/o sword > Shanks w/ sword, specially after Oda has said many times that Shanks has great swordsmanship and is a sword master.

You can quote me over this when Shanks actually shows a haki laserbeam though lmao.

 

[Artem]

Correct but not in combat fight, not in hand to hand fight.

Mihawk is the world's strongest swordsman, his swordsmanship abilities are recognized worldwide and this title is legit.

This title might imply that he is above Shanks, I'm not denying this possibility.

HOWEVER, the same way being the strongest chess player doesn't make you the strongest in combat against all chess players, being the strongest swordsman doesn't make you the strongest in combat against all swordsmen either.

Zoro vs Law is the perfect example. Law beats Zoro in combat even if Zoro is a better swordsman than Law because of his devil fruit abilities.

If swordsman Mihawk and Shanks come together on fists, maybe Shanks will win. But the main skills of shanks are top 2 fencing and the strongest acoc(possibly). Mihouk has top 1 fencing,top hahi+black blade+top 2 acoc(possible) . And in the end, Mihouk >Shanks because top fencing includes all these aspects.

 

[zzShinichi]

"How WSS title works" in other words your proud headcanon?

No. I do think Shanks will win but regardless of the result, i still view him not as WSS since he's a weaker swordsman. Oda just differentiate strongest swordsman and strongest haki user, since haki is an energy which can be used to do whatever. Thats literally my stance since the start.

If Shanks is WSS then he will win against Mihawk in swordsmanship like Brannew emphasized. But just like i previously respond to other member: if Gryphon is broken or whatever against Mihawk's final CoA+CoC technique, but Shanks use a CoC laserbeam from his broken sword or CoC bomb from his arm stump and beat Mihawk with it, that scenario is not Shanks being WSS at all is it?

Would you say Shanks is stronger than Kaido because his Haki is stronger?