Powers & Abilities Swordsmanship is All About Haki

Who is Superior and in Which Stats?

  • Mihawk (swordsmanship and haki)

  • Mihawk (swordsmanship alone)

  • Mihawk (haki alone)

  • Shanks (swordsmanship and haki)

  • Shanks (swordsmanship alone)

  • Shanks (haki alone)

Results are only viewable after voting.
Ssg super suit coby

Ssg super suit coby

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#125
#125
Salah WG said:
Nice thread.
More arguments to add:

Mihawk blamed lack of Haki for Zoro's Defeat

During Baratie, he told him to know his will instead of improve sword moves

Land of Samurai and Swordsmen are specialized in CoA

Kaido was shocked by Scabbards Haki, not their Sword moves

Oden got stronger in his journey thanks to Haki/CoC

When Zoro's first attack against Kaido didn't do much, he said he needs more Haki, not better Sword Technique

With exception of Garp, almost all Top Tiers who specialize in Haki and didn't eat a DF are Swordsmen

Kaido witnessed Zoro's Ultimate technique (Asura) and yet attributed the feat of receiving a new scar to Zoro having CoC
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One more Luffy was trained by swordsman in the use of haki and advanced haki
 
zzShinichi

zzShinichi

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#133
#133
Haki and Swordmanship are tools for a swordman, just like DF is also an enhancer for some swordmans like Kaku, Shiryuu, Law, Fujitora...
From what we learnt from direct statement from Oda
Mihawk and Shanks is both Swordmen (confirmed)
Mihawk's swordmanship is better than Shanks' swordmanship (confirmed)
Shanks' haki may or may not be stronger than Mihawk's (unconfirmed)
Mihawk got the title World Strongest Swordman (confirmed)
So, even if Shanks' haki is stronger, Mihawk's swordmanship and other skills such as COA are enough to pull Mihawk ahead of Shanks, and become the World Strongest Swordman.
They are close, no doubt, Shanks can totally beat Mihawk in a fight. The fight between them will not end in any less than an extreme extreme diff from both side. But overall, Mihawk has the edge over Shanks. If i had to put their strength in number, Mihawk is 100 and Shanks is like 99
:pepehawk:
 
Gol D. Roger

Gol D. Roger

ȶɦɛ քɨʀǟȶɛ ӄɨռɢ
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#134
#134
Rootbeer said:
Luffy, Kaido, Shanks, Roger, Whitebeard, Yamato..
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Why do you think Luffy and Yamato have CoC coating? I mean, what did they do to make you believe they have it? Post the exact feats that made you realize it.
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uyuu said:
Who said Shanks isnt a swordsman? I just said Shanks is the weaker swordsman with stronger haki.
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You can't be a weaker swordsman with stronger Haki though.
 
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Wuuuke

Wuuuke

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#135
#135
Gol D. Roger said:
Why do you think Luffy and Yamato have CoC coating? I mean, what did they do to make you believe they have it? Post the exact feats that made you realize it.
Post automatically merged:



You can't be a weaker swordsman with stronger Haki though.
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Unless for some reason Shanks' haki magically grows stronger when he isn't using a sword lol
 
H

humanbeing2022

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#138
#138
by the way just for this who think that swordsmanship are only about haki, why the hell Mihawk didn't defeat Vista Mihawk's haki is without a doubt far stronger and he would have defeated him easily if he wanted. the truth is a competition between swordsmen is about sowrd skill , so Mihawk wanted just to fight with skill sword with Vista, so as well with Shanks , Shanks cannot play his swordsmanship with one arm like he did with 2 .
as well another example the fight between King and Zoro it was not about swordsmanship , but about having a winner no matter what , even Zoro stated that King never stated that he is a swordsman, and Zoro did say he would bite him to death if it has to be.
Haki is for sure necessary for a swordsman but Haki can used in more ways , that can decide the victor but those are not sword skills.
 
Buggy D Clown

Buggy D Clown

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#139
#139
humanbeing2022 said:
by the way just for this who think that swordsmanship are only about haki, why the hell Mihawk didn't defeat Vista Mihawk's haki is without a doubt far stronger and he would have defeated him easily if he wanted. the truth is a competition between swordsmen is about sowrd skill , so Mihawk wanted just to fight with skill sword with Vista, so as well with Shanks , Shanks cannot play his swordsmanship with one arm like he did with 2 .
as well another example the fight between King and Zoro it was not about swordsmanship , but about having a winner no matter what , even Zoro stated that King never stated that he is a swordsman, and Zoro did say he would bite him to death if it has to be.
Haki is for sure necessary for a swordsman but Haki can used in more ways , that can decide the victor but those are not sword skills.
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Are you suggesting Zoro won't use haki when he fights Mihawk to become the WSS?
 
Violent Sanji

Violent Sanji

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#140
#140
Cinera said:
[No essay this time (or images either, I can't be bothered).]


Introduction
The single most important factor to becoming a stronger swordsman is haki and haki alone. Nothing else (skill, physical strength, endurance, e) even registers. Indeed, it wouldn't be wrong to say that true "sword skill" is just the strength and proficiency of your haki.


Arguments in Favour
Some credible arguments in favour:
  • Kozaburo told Zoro that the pinnacle of swordsmanship was the power to protect what you wanted to protect and cut what you want to cut.
  • Zoro's bloom in his fight against Daz Bones was a bloom of haki.
    • He subconsciously manifested Busoshoku haki (the breath of all things) and Kenbushoku haki (knowing where the rocks wouldn't fall).
  • Zoro's trump card against Pica was Busoshoku coating
    • Indeed, he said that Pica would beat him if only his haki was stronger.
  • Luffy's haki teachers were all swordsmen
    • Rayleigh during the time skip
    • Hyougoro during Wano
  • As far as we're aware, the only thing Mihawk taught Zoro was haki
    • He specifically forbade Zoro from drinking wine until he mastered coating his swords with Busoshoku haki.
    • Zoro has not other flashbacks showing him learn anything else
  • Recall that Zoro asked Mihawk to teach him "the way of the sword".
    • Thus, "the way of the sword" is nothing other than mastery of Haki.
  • Black Blades — the pinnacle of swordmanship — are forged through supreme haki
    • Mihawk told this to Zoro
    • Gyukimaru reiterated it
  • Only the greatest swordsmen of all time have wielded Black Blades:
    • Former WSS: Ryuma
    • Current WSS: Mihawk
    • Future WSS: Zoro
    • Lesser swordsmen have failed to forge Kokuto
      • Roger
      • Rayleigh
      • Shanks
      • Oden
      • Issho
      • Etc.
  • Zoro's growth with Enma was all about mastering his Busoshoku and Haoshoku haki
    • Enma forcibly released his Ryuo, and learning how to wield Enma forced him to temper and master said haki
    • He had to unlock Haoshoku haki to effectively use Enma at all
  • King stated that Zoro had "kingly ambitions"
    • Upon witnessing his "King of Hell" mode, he chastised him not to get ahead of himself as Kaido would become the Pirate King
    • That is, King considered Zoro a worthy contender for the Pirate King throne.
  • Zoro's big power up post skip was unlocking Haoshoku coating and developing an associated mode: "King of Hell".
    • His big attack against King was entirely dependent on his haki with "skill" and physical strength being completely irrelevant
    • This is his equivalent of Luffy's gears
  • Asura may also be a manifestation of Zoro's haki
  • It was only after his haki bloom in Wano that Zoro earned the title of "Kengou" (master swordsman)
    • Mastering his ryuo
    • Unlocking Haoshoku
      • He needed this to tame Enma
    • Unlocking Haoshoku coating
    • Unlocking a new mode ("King of Hell") based entirely around Haoshoku coating
    • Unlocking a super move that use massive amounts of Haoshoku coating
  • At the end of his fight with King, Zoro stated that he will become "Jigoku no Ou" ("The King of Hell" [and a pun on "The King of Samurai"])
    • This further reiterates how important haki — and Haoshoku haki in particular — is to the pinnacle of swordsmanship

More arguments, courtesy of @Salah WG:



Arguments Against
The credible arguments against:
(They don't exist.)


Conclusions
At the high and top tier, swordsmanship is — as best as we can tell — solely about haki. That is, the statement that Mihawk's swordsmanship surpasses Shanks is a statement that Mihawk's haki surpasses Shanks.

For if Shanks had the superior haki, he would be the superior swordsman.

It should also go without saying, but Mihawk explicitly turned down the Yonkou title, revealing that not only does he have no interest in it, but he could have the title of Yonkou had he wished.

So Shanks' lone — and quite dubious at that — portrayal above Mihawk has been completely discredited.

Mihawk's bounty being above three Yonkou and so close to Shanks while he's a "mere subordinate" is further damming for him.
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What breaks your argument. Oden has ittoryu sword techniques. Zoro has nittoryu ittoryu santoryu techniques. Stop acting like haki is the only part of swordsmanship when its not and it never has been. There is a clear difference between someone like roger, shanks than someone like Mihawk. King made that apparent.
 
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